New to "Amtrak Unlimited" but not to Amtrak

[AutoTrDvr]

Hello. I just joined this forum (I'm a veteran of many others like it). But I have some experience with Amtrak, having taken several of the original routes to get to and from school (the original "Broadway" and "Lakeshore" Ltd. trains).

At present, I'm a frequent traveler aboard the "Auto Train" which, as I understand, is Amtrak's most profitable train. I consider it an absolute value in that I don't have to drive that far to get to Florida, and I usually travel there at least twice a year if not more.

I have a question regarding Amtrak's standard "checked baggage" policies and how they apply to the Auto Train. It would seem that the policies in place on Amtrak's website have to do, primarily, passenger trains that have a baggage car. However, because there is no such thing as "checked baggage" on the Auto Train, (i.e. either it's a "carry on" or it's "whatever is in your car") how would those same policies apply (if at all) to the Auto Train? (Note: I do *not* refer to "carry on" items, for which I assume the same policies would apply).

Is there a separately defined policy for what you can/can't put in your vehicle on the Auto Train? It would seem that, having discussed the situation with several Amtrak reps when making AutoTrain reservations, there are some slight differences (some things you can put in your car that you cannot carry in "checked baggage" aboard other trains). I'll not mention any details just yet, until I can get some clarity on the policy.

I would imagine that the standard things like flammable materials, explosives, etc. are prohibited anywhere. I am also aware that vehicles are subject to search (for the first time, I did see the K-9 unit in force at Lorton this past weekend, doing cursory inspections of both cars and inside the terminal with the trained dogs).

By the way, I wish Amtrak would create other Auto Train routes, but I suppose they would not be as profitable. What makes the DC <--> Florida route so profitable I think are the two primary constituencies -

1) The "snowbirds" - who spend winters in Fl. and summers up north.

2) Families (with children) visiting the Orlando theme parks.

I am in neither constituency, but one I'll talk about later, once I get my question answered. It might be one that Amtrak should consider marketing!

Thanks & Regards,



AutoTrDvr

 

[the_traveler]

Welcome to AU!

I have not taken the AT, but as I understand the policy is that if it fits comfortably in the car/van (not tied down or on the roof), you can take as much as you want! I could be wrong - if so, I'll be corrected!

Since you travel Amtrak often, are you a member of AGR (Amtrak Guest Rewards)?

If not, I urge you to join. If you would like a referral, just send me a PM (Private Message - click the envelope under my name) with your email address!

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Welcome to AU!

I have not taken the AT, but as I understand the policy is that if it fits comfortably in the car/van (not tied down or on the roof), you can take as much as you want! I could be wrong - if so, I'll be corrected!

Since you travel Amtrak often, are you a member of AGR (Amtrak Guest Rewards)?

If not, I urge you to join. If you would like a referral, just send me a PM (Private Message - click the envelope under my name) with your email address!

Dave, if you share your AGR points with me, I'll share my car with you for the AutoTrain. When we get to FL, I can drive you over to Penny's and then head up to my brother's house in The Villages (if they're not on one of their many cruises).

 

[AutoTrDvr]

Welcome to AU!

I have not taken the AT, but as I understand the policy is that if it fits comfortably in the car/van (not tied down or on the roof), you can take as much as you want! I could be wrong - if so, I'll be corrected!

Since you travel Amtrak often, are you a member of AGR (Amtrak Guest Rewards)?

If not, I urge you to join. If you would like a referral, just send me a PM (Private Message - click the envelope under my name) with your email address!

Dave, if you share your AGR points with me, I'll share my car with you for the AutoTrain. When we get to FL, I can drive you over to Penny's and then head up to my brother's house in The Villages (if they're not on one of their many cruises).

Thank you both for your welcomes. I am not AGR, but if I keep the pace up that I am, I'll definitely consider it.

I agree with the understanding that I can take whatever will fit comfortably in the interior of the vehicle. The question is, what items can/can't I include inside the vehicle, and are there any differences with what I can/can't include in "checked baggage" if I were taking a regular long distance train? I have been led to believe by some Amtrak personnel (when making AT reservations) that I can include some things that the standard checked baggage policy says are "prohibited." If there is some increased latitude for AT customers in re: what can be included in the vehicle, that should be made clear in a separate baggage policy for Auto Train customers.

Just trying to figure it all out.

Thanks & Regards.

 

[jb64]

Welcome to AU!

I have not taken the AT, but as I understand the policy is that if it fits comfortably in the car/van (not tied down or on the roof), you can take as much as you want! I could be wrong - if so, I'll be corrected!

Since you travel Amtrak often, are you a member of AGR (Amtrak Guest Rewards)?

If not, I urge you to join. If you would like a referral, just send me a PM (Private Message - click the envelope under my name) with your email address!

Why the frownie face at the beginning of your message? Not very welcoming :unsure:

To the OP: are you trying to ask about firearms without coming out and asking the question?

 

[pennyk]

Why the frownie face at the beginning of your message? Not very welcoming :unsure:

To the OP: are you trying to ask about firearms without coming out and asking the question?

With regard to the :angry: frownie face, I assume that it was in error. I recently received an email from the_traveler with a photo of his sleeping cat attached stating that after a morning of typing, his cat is resting. I will further assume that the_traveler's cat made the typing error. :lol:

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Why the frownie face at the beginning of your message? Not very welcoming :unsure:

Even less welcoming than the frowning face is the points begging. <_<

To the OP: are you trying to ask about firearms without coming out and asking the question?

You're not the only one who is curious. I have no idea where this thread is heading, but the build-up appears to be working. :lol:

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Welcome to AU!

I have not taken the AT, but as I understand the policy is that if it fits comfortably in the car/van (not tied down or on the roof), you can take as much as you want! I could be wrong - if so, I'll be corrected!

Since you travel Amtrak often, are you a member of AGR (Amtrak Guest Rewards)?

If not, I urge you to join. If you would like a referral, just send me a PM (Private Message - click the envelope under my name) with your email address!

Why the frownie face at the beginning of your message? Not very welcoming :unsure:

To the OP: are you trying to ask about firearms without coming out and asking the question?

I took the frownie face as a way to say he's jealous the OP has taken the AutoTrain many times whereas the_traveler has not taken that train yet.

 

[AutoTrDvr]

Why the frownie face at the beginning of your message? Not very welcoming :unsure:

Even less welcoming than the frowning face is the points begging. <_<

No worries. I've had my troubles with smilies on other forums.

To the OP: are you trying to ask about firearms without coming out and asking the question?

You're not the only one who is curious. I have no idea where this thread is heading, but the build-up appears to be working. :lol:

Well, let's put it this way.... I don't own any firearms, so no issue for me, although it might be for some others in "my community." I am aware, however, of the firearms carriage policy that was recently implemented (in 2010). But again, it seems to reference "checked baggage," and there is no such thing as checked baggage on the Auto Train.

I promise, I will reveal all, once I get a handle on the issue.

 

[the_traveler]

1338318345[/url]' post='370227']

1338312659[/url]' post='370192']

Welcome to AU!

Why the frownie face at the beginning of your message? Not very welcoming :unsure:

Yes, it was an error on the part of my cat! Sorry!

 

[afigg]

At present, I'm a frequent traveler aboard the "Auto Train" which, as I understand, is Amtrak's most profitable train. I consider it an absolute value in that I don't have to drive that far to get to Florida, and I usually travel there at least twice a year if not more.

...

By the way, I wish Amtrak would create other Auto Train routes, but I suppose they would not be as profitable. What makes the DC <--> Florida route so profitable I think are the two primary constituencies -

1) The "snowbirds" - who spend winters in Fl. and summers up north.

2) Families (with children) visiting the Orlando theme parks.

I am in neither constituency, but one I'll talk about later, once I get my question answered.[/size] It might be one that Amtrak should consider marketing!

Welcome to the forum! :hi:

For the record, the AutoTrain (often abbreviated as AT) is not a profitable train. It is Amtrak's closest to breaking even Long Distance train. The Acela is Amtrak's most "profitable" train if only operating costs above the rails are used as the basis. At the prices Amtrak now charges for the Acela (and gets), it should be turning a profit.

There have been many discussions on this forum about adding alternate AutoTrains, such as the upper Midwest to Orlando, NYC area to Orlando, Chicago region/Midwest to Arizona, etc. Height clearance for the Superliners and autorack cars presently stop the AT from operating north of DC along the CSX route through Baltimore and MD. The speed and quality of the tracks and train trip time from the Midwest to Florida is an issue for that route. Then there is the big problem is that Amtrak currently does not have the equipment to run another AT service. If replacements for the Superliner I cars are someday delivered, then Amtrak could conceivably use the excess old Superliners to fit out another AT service as a 1-3 year experiment to see if it gets enough business.

 

[Ryan]

Welcome!

The Auto Train page on Amtrak's website says the following:

We do not offer checked baggage service on the Auto Train. You may pack baggage inside your automobile; however, you may not access your vehicle en route. Amtrak allows two carry-on bags per passenger.

That would suggest to me that Amtrak's checked baggage policies do not apply.

 

[AutoTrDvr]

Welcome to the forum! :hi:

Many thanks!

For the record, the AutoTrain (often abbreviated as AT) is not a profitable train. It is Amtrak's closest to breaking even Long Distance train. The Acela is Amtrak's most "profitable" train if only operating costs above the rails are used as the basis. At the prices Amtrak now charges for the Acela (and gets), it should be turning a profit.

There have been many discussions on this forum about adding alternate AutoTrains, such as the upper Midwest to Orlando, NYC area to Orlando, Chicago region/Midwest to Arizona, etc. Height clearance for the Superliners and autorack cars presently stop the AT from operating north of DC along the CSX route through Baltimore and MD. The speed and quality of the tracks and train trip time from the Midwest to Florida is an issue for that route. Then there is the big problem is that Amtrak currently does not have the equipment to run another AT service. If replacements for the Superliner I cars are someday delivered, then Amtrak could conceivably use the excess old Superliners to fit out another AT service as a 1-3 year experiment to see if it gets enough business.

I would think that an Upper Midwest (Chi) to Fl. might generate quite a bit of interest. That, and Chi to Phoenix (for the Grand Canyon Natl, Park). Yes, sufficient equipment and tracks are an issue. But if the situation with the airlines and the TSA get any worse, there might, hopefully, be renewed interest. I mean, to be able to take my car and what I can pack in it (no need to rent one, and less wear and tear than driving the distance) as opposed to flying and having to rent a car and dealing with the TSA etc.). I dunno... most people that live near me would prefer to drive the distance and save $$$, but I don't think they are taking into account the wear and tear costs on your car, and your body. It would seem the AT car fee is just about competitive with the fuel costs for driving the same distance, and the coach seat costs closely competitive with a one night stay in a budget hotel (i.e One way). A roomette or bedroom is extra, of course, but IMHO, worth it.

Regards.

 

[AutoTrDvr]

Welcome!

The Auto Train page on Amtrak's website says the following:

We do not offer checked baggage service on the Auto Train. You may pack baggage inside your automobile; however, you may not access your vehicle en route. Amtrak allows two carry-on bags per passenger.

That would suggest to me that Amtrak's checked baggage policies do not apply.

I would hope that at least part of it *does* apply (ie. prohibition on explosives, flammables, etc.). for everyone's safety and protection of property. The dog I saw this past weekend was trained to search for something. Hopefully, his training includes "nitrates and other incendiary materials."

Not having access during the trip is not an issue. After all, we would not have access to checked baggage on a regular long distance train. In fact, the on board train crew themselves don't even have access to the car containers. Once a container car is filled, it's pad locked by the local station crew before being stacked onto the train set. AFAIK, only the local station crews at each end have the keys.

 

[amamba]

I don't know if the policy regarding firearms is the same as it is for checked baggage on the AT. I mean, theoretically if the firearm is locked in your car and its not accessible during the trip I guess it seems like it is the same scenario as being allowed in the locked baggage car.

Have you googled up the Amtrak standards/policy manual? Someone got a hold of it via a freedom of information act request within the last 12 months. I don't have the link handy, but I wonder if baggage scenarios are discussed in more detail regarding the AT here. This is an employee service/standards manual that is given to each employee and details many more policies than is publicly available on the website.

 

[AutoTrDvr]

I don't know if the policy regarding firearms is the same as it is for checked baggage on the AT. I mean, theoretically if the firearm is locked in your car and its not accessible during the trip I guess it seems like it is the same scenario as being allowed in the locked baggage car.

Have you googled up the Amtrak standards/policy manual? Someone got a hold of it via a freedom of information act request within the last 12 months. I don't have the link handy, but I wonder if baggage scenarios are discussed in more detail regarding the AT here. This is an employee service/standards manual that is given to each employee and details many more policies than is publicly available on the website.

Thanks! Found it (easily Googleable), and checked it. There is an entire chapter on checked baggage, but it seems all defined in re: long distance trains with checked baggage service. There is no mention in re: "what's inside your car on the Auto Train," and/or if those policies apply to the AT. In fact, there are very few references to the Auto Train in it at all, except to identify it as a "class of service," to explain why various discounts are *not valid* on such trains as "Acela express" and the "Auto Train," etc. etc., and the procedures for offering freebies if the Auto Train's arrival is delayed by X hours.

Ah well. See below.

 

[AutoTrDvr]

At present, I'm a frequent traveler aboard the "Auto Train" which, as I understand, is Amtrak's most profitable train. I consider it an absolute value in that I don't have to drive that far to get to Florida, and I usually travel there at least twice a year if not more.

 

I have a question regarding Amtrak's standard "checked baggage" policies and how they apply to the Auto Train. It would seem that the policies in place on Amtrak's website have to do, primarily, passenger trains that have a baggage car. However, because there is no such thing as "checked baggage" on the Auto Train, (i.e. either it's a "carry on" or it's "whatever is in your car") how would those same policies apply (if at all) to the Auto Train? (Note: I do *not* refer to "carry on" items, for which I assume the same policies would apply).

 

Is there a separately defined policy for what you can/can't put in your vehicle on the Auto Train? It would seem that, having discussed the situation with several Amtrak reps when making AutoTrain reservations, there are some slight differences (some things you can put in your car that you cannot carry in "checked baggage" aboard other trains). I'll not mention any details just yet, until I can get some clarity on the policy.

OK, here it is....

 

The mystery item is....... <drum roll>

 

 

 

SCUBA Tanks.

 

 

I'm a SCUBA diver, and in particular, a "cave diver." Most cave divers own their own equipment and carry it wherever they dive, including (and especially) the tanks. And, of course, the primary place to dive US caves is Northern Florida (starting in the Gainesville area and moving north and west into the panhandle). We call it "cave country." And, very conveniently, it's a ~2hr drive from Sanford.

 

Being able to bring all our gear (including the tanks) is a major incentive for divers who can to use the AT (it's why I use it), rather than drive the distance, and as opposed to flying. Bringing tanks on an aircraft is way too expensive, and the tanks would have to be emptied and broken down. Very costly, especially to rebuild and refill them. I would think that this is a market Amtrak could attract with a little advertising, and a clearly defined policy. None of the gases we use are flammable or explosive. But they are compressed. But so is that tank of medical O2 used by those carried on board the train with need for it.

 

When I first considered the AT for dive travel, I called Amtrak and asked about this and was told it was "no problem at all," as long as the gases aren't flammable or explosive. But it seems that some of their policies, as displayed on their website, might leave a little room for "interpretation/discretion" by anyone who might be inspecting your car. I didn't even give it a thought prior to this current trip. But when I saw the Amtrak K-9 unit out over this past weekend, giving the cursory "sniff" around the cars, I started to think again. While I'm pretty sure they were searching for flammables / explosives, goodness knows what might happen if the dog alerts on your car (for whatever reason) and the tanks are discovered. Thankfully, the dog did not alert on my car.

 

My point being, I would strongly urge Amtrak to enact a "baggage" policy specific to the Auto Train and what is / is not permitted in your car. And, of course, I would encourage SCUBA tanks to be permitted. At present, there appears to be no such policy for the AT (assuming the regular checked baggage policy does not apply), which may make things "open for interpretation" by any "inspector." If the AT is to be a reliable resource for us divers, we need a clearly defined policy that is not open to interpretation. If Amtrak plays this right, they could add a new clientele group (along with the "snowbirds" and "theme park families.").

 

That's all it is....

 

Thanks & Regards...

 

 

 

 

[pennyk]

The mystery item is....... <drum roll>

SCUBA Tanks.

I'm a SCUBA diver, and in particular, a "cave diver."

Scuba tanks.... Probably not quite as exciting as some of us were imagining. I went to college in Gainesville and spent a little time scuba diving in the area. I did not like caves at all, and in fact, I was not a very good diver and my ears do not flying because of my incompetence as a scuba diver.

I hope you have fun diving in Florida and be careful.

 

[AutoTrDvr]

The mystery item is....... <drum roll>

SCUBA Tanks.

I'm a SCUBA diver, and in particular, a "cave diver."

Scuba tanks.... Probably not quite as exciting as some of us were imagining.

Gee, sorry to disappoint!

I hope you have fun diving in Florida and be careful.

Absolutely... Always careful...

Thanks & Regards...

 

[Ocala Mike]

Yes, be careful cave diving in Florida. This place is world famous, and just up the block from our horse farm:

http://www.40fathomgrotto.com/

There have been fatalities there, but not for a few years. It is located around 15 miles NW of the Ocala Ambus station, or around two hours from the AT terminal in Sanford.

 

[Peter KG6LSE]

Being able to bring all our gear (including the tanks) is a major incentive for divers who can to use the AT (it's why I use it), rather than drive the distance, and as opposed to flying. Bringing tanks on an aircraft is way too expensive, and the tanks would have to be emptied and broken down. Very costly, especially to rebuild and refill them. I would think that this is a market Amtrak could attract with a little advertising, and a clearly defined policy. None of the gases we use are flammable or explosive. But they are compressed. But so is that tank of medical O2 used by those carried on board the train with need for it.

 

When I first considered the AT for dive travel, I called Amtrak and asked about this and was told it was "no problem at all," as long as the gases aren't flammable or explosive. But it seems that some of their policies, as displayed on their website, might leave a little room for "interpretation/discretion" by anyone who might be inspecting your car. I didn't even give it a thought prior to this current trip. But when I saw the Amtrak K-9 unit out over this past weekend, giving the cursory "sniff" around the cars, I started to think again. While I'm pretty sure they were searching for flammables / explosives, goodness knows what might happen if the dog alerts on your car (for whatever reason) and the tanks are discovered. Thankfully, the dog did not alert on my car.

 

My point being, I would strongly urge Amtrak to enact a "baggage" policy specific to the Auto Train and what is / is not permitted in your car. And, of course, I would encourage SCUBA tanks to be permitted. At present, there appears to be no such policy for the AT (assuming the regular checked baggage policy does not apply), which may make things "open for interpretation" by any "inspector." If the AT is to be a reliable resource for us divers, we need a clearly defined policy that is not open to interpretation. If Amtrak plays this right, they could add a new clientele group (along with the "snowbirds" and "theme park families.").

 

That's all it is....

 

Thanks & Regards...

 

 

Avanced NAUI and PADI here . no caves .. more wreck for me ... 10 years and I still love it!

as you know with normal AIR tanks its not as huge of a hassle to do a VIP and then fill .. but with O2 or blends its a huge issue as contaminants are a explosion risk at the time of fill .

Pure O2 is a far more greater risk of enhanced fire then a AL 80 of air

and all SCUBA tanks are DOT rated .. looks like AMTK has no faith in the .. D O T .. heheh

this Brings a 2ed Point

CNG cars

what is to say a CNG car is not a risk

they are also DOT rated .. and are 3K to 6KPSI .

The airlines have a some what decent policy on gear . Unvalve your tanks. .. and not loaded explosives or spear guns ..

Ill often rent tanks . but I own a posiden Oden .. full face mack . Comms and the like .. .. I dont rent my gear .. .

Peter

 

[AlanB]

I don't know if the policy regarding firearms is the same as it is for checked baggage on the AT. I mean, theoretically if the firearm is locked in your car and its not accessible during the trip I guess it seems like it is the same scenario as being allowed in the locked baggage car.

Only the car isn't locked. You turn over your car & your keys to an employee when you arrive. They cannot lock the car when they put it into the auto rack, as they would then have no way to get back into your car to drive it off the carrier on the other end.

That said, I would grant that no one can get to the auto carriers during the trip, so that's almost as good as having the gun otherwise locked up.

 

[AutoTrDvr]

Avanced NAUI and PADI here . no caves .. more wreck for me ... 10 years and I still love it!

as you know with normal AIR tanks its not as huge of a hassle to do a VIP and then fill ..

but with O2 or blends its a huge issue as contaminants are a explosion risk at the time of fill .

I won't get into VIPs here... suffice to say that the cave diving community has a few issues with the recreational dive service industry in re: VIPs (Visual Inspection Program). And why many if not most senior/experienced cave divers are trained to service their own gear and fill their own tanks. Or they gravitate to dive shops that are "cave diver friendly."

The greater concern is the cost of having to break down the tanks, (especially manifolded doubles), having to rebuild them, and then re-filling them with an expensive tri-mix blend like 18/45. For those non-divers, "Tri-mix" is a blend of O2, Helium and regular Air. The number ("18/45") represents the % of O2/He in the mix. The rest is Air, which is almost 70% Nitrogen. The goal of Tri-mix is to reduce the amount of Nitrogen in the breathing gas, thereby decreasing the amount of decompression time after the dive. With different mix values, it can also allow you to dive to deeper depths as well.

Point being, Trimix can be extremely expensive (Helium is like gold these days), and to waste it and the time/money needed to break down and rebuild a set of manifolded doubles in order to comply with an Amtrak regulation would make the AT a much more cost prohibitive option. They'd lose the entire share of a market they should be trying to attract.

Pure O2 is a far more greater risk of enhanced fire then a AL 80 of air

Pure O2 is not flammable nor explosive on it's own, and not at the pressure at which it's stored for both medical and SCUBA use. It is an "oxidizer" and needs a source of fuel/heat/friction etc, in order to do any "enhancing." And, since there is a precedent in re: Medical pure O2 being permitted to carry on board.... that could be just as risky if not riskier.

The airlines have a some what decent policy on gear . Unvalve your tanks.

Unacceptable to the cave community! Way too expensive, per the above. If this is ever implemented on the AT, they would lose the entire market segment.

PS. DISCLAIMER: Never attempt to dive a cave (or any overhead environment) without the proper training and experience! It's not worth your life!

 

[AutoTrDvr]

I don't know if the policy regarding firearms is the same as it is for checked baggage on the AT. I mean, theoretically if the firearm is locked in your car and its not accessible during the trip I guess it seems like it is the same scenario as being allowed in the locked baggage car.

Only the car isn't locked. You turn over your car & your keys to an employee when you arrive. They cannot lock the car when they put it into the auto rack, as they would then have no way to get back into your car to drive it off the carrier on the other end.

That is correct. The car stays unlocked and the key inside. The driver's window stays down so they can reach in and unlock it if needed. Also, if you have a passive alarm system, disable it as the motion of the train may trigger it constantly, and the last thing you want upon arrival is a dead battery, especially if it delays the other cars from de-training.

That said, I would grant that no one can get to the auto carriers during the trip, so that's almost as good as having the gun otherwise locked up.

Correct again. Once a carrier is filled, the outer doors are closed and then pad locked on the outside. Only the local station attendants have the keys to the pad locks. The train crew doesn't even have them.

 

[VentureForth]

Never thought about it before, but the train is a great opportunity for divers. Not only with regards to the gear, but to the waiting time between flying and diving. Yes, aircraft are pressurized, but only to 8,000 ft. Still gotta acclimate.

I don't think your tanks will ever be a problem. If so, then it should be your goal through NAUI and PADI to lobby Amtrak with the facts.

Best of luck on all your adventures!