Msp-chi portion of train 8

[Steve4031]

I have friends traveling on 8 in 10 days. I understand and am patient about the flooding. I'm trying to anticipate what they'll experience if the train is several

Hours late. Will they just wait? Are they bustituted? I told them to make sure there cell number using there reservation record so that Amtrak can call.

Obviously I'll be tracking their train as it comes across. So I'll keep them informed of it's progress.

 

[PRR 60]

I have friends traveling on 8 in 10 days. I understand and am patient about the flooding. I'm trying to anticipate what they'll experience if the train is several

Hours late. Will they just wait? Are they bustituted? I told them to make sure there cell number using there reservation record so that Amtrak can call.

Obviously I'll be tracking their train as it comes across. So I'll keep them informed of it's progress.

Usually if the Empire Builder is running very late coming in from the west, Amtrak will arrange for buses to originate at MSP at the scheduled departure time.

 

[the_traveler]

If #8 is very late AND they are making a connection in CHI, there is a good possibility that they will be bustituted between MSP and CHI to make the connection. If they are not connecting, they may just stay on #8. Usually Amtrak staff comes aboard prior to MSP to explain what will happen in this case.

 

[tonys96]

Showing my naivette, what is "bustituted".

 

[Steve4031]

My friends will be boarding is msp. They are not connecting out of chicago. At what point do they find out about bustitution?

Should I advised them to report to the msp station for a 7:50 am departure when I can clearly see that 8 is several hours late?

 

[Trogdor]

If #8 is very late AND they are making a connection in CHI, there is a good possibility that they will be bustituted between MSP and CHI to make the connection. If they are not connecting, they may just stay on #8. Usually Amtrak staff comes aboard prior to MSP to explain what will happen in this case.

Nobody on train 8 west of MSP gets bused MSP-CHI just because the train is late. The buses are only for people boarding MSP and east, representing an on-time section.

It wouldn't make any sense to put people already on the train onto buses (unless the tracks were blocked). Approximate driving time (per google maps) from MSP to CHI is barely a half hour faster than the train's scheduled time, and that assumes the bus makes no rest breaks in between (for food), and assumes no traffic delays, not to mention the time it takes to transfer passengers from the train to the bus.

 

[Trulytracy]

We are boarding the number 8 in Seattle this afternoon and traveling all the way to Chicago. I will be sure to post about anything unusual and how it is handled.

We are on the tail end of our trip which included a ride on the California Zephyr (terribly late but nothing happened because of it) and the Coast Starlight, which was blissfully on time. Interestingly, both trains had medical emergencies.

 

[me_little_me]

Showing my naivette, what is "bustituted".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bustitution

Substituting a bus for the train (bus substitution)

 

[Eric308]

I have friends traveling on 8 in 10 days. I understand and am patient about the flooding. I'm trying to anticipate what they'll experience if the train is several

Hours late. Will they just wait? Are they bustituted? I told them to make sure there cell number using there reservation record so that Amtrak can call.

Obviously I'll be tracking their train as it comes across. So I'll keep them informed of it's progress.

Average delay for #8 for the last three weeks is 5.5 hours.

 

[Dovecote]

My friends will be boarding is msp. They are not connecting out of chicago. At what point do they find out about bustitution?

Should I advised them to report to the msp station for a 7:50 am departure when I can clearly see that 8 is several hours late?

My last two MSP>CHI EB trips were so late that bustitutions were required. Amtrak never notified me by phone on each of these trips of a bustitution. The first time, knowing the EB would be late, I arrived at the station several hours late finding out that motor coaches departed the MSP station on time for the eastbound trip to CHI. I was able to board the EB in MSP but missed my connecting train. Amtrak did provide me overnight lodging and got me on a train the next day. On the second occasion, knowing that you could not rely on Amtrak for a bustitution notification, I arrived to the station on time and caught the motorcoach to CHI. My trip report on the bustitution can be found here.

You mentioned that your friends are not connecting out of Chicago. Since this is the case, if time is not an issue, they can certainly wait for the EB to arrive and ride the train to CHI. They certainly will enjoy the scenery on the train in lieu of the route the motorcoach takes.

 

[tonys96]

Showing my naivette, what is "bustituted".

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Bustitution

Substituting a bus for the train (bus substitution)

Got it! Thanks!

 

[twincities]

Train service between MSP and Chicago is a perfect example of everything that's wrong with Amtrak. There's a single unreliable train each day between the cities and it lumbers along on a schedule that's 2+ hours longer than trains of 60 years ago! In comparison, the airlines have approximately 45 flights every day in each direction, so you can see this is a major travel corridor. In addition, Greyhound has introduced express service between MSP and Chicago with brand new buses equipped with free wi-fi, leather seating, and extra legroom. Greyhound's advance purchase online fares are only $24 one-way. I have taken Amtrak between MSP and Chicago in the past, but it's unlikely I will in the future. Why should I pay fares that are sometimes as high as an airline ticket or three times the cost of Greyhound only to find out the train is running hours late and I'll be put on a bus.

 

[TransitGeek]

Train service between MSP and Chicago is a perfect example of everything that's wrong with Amtrak. There's a single unreliable train each day between the cities and it lumbers along on a schedule that's 2+ hours longer than trains of 60 years ago! In comparison, the airlines have approximately 45 flights every day in each direction, so you can see this is a major travel corridor. In addition, Greyhound has introduced express service between MSP and Chicago with brand new buses equipped with free wi-fi, leather seating, and extra legroom. Greyhound's advance purchase online fares are only $24 one-way. I have taken Amtrak between MSP and Chicago in the past, but it's unlikely I will in the future. Why should I pay fares that are sometimes as high as an airline ticket or three times the cost of Greyhound only to find out the train is running hours late and I'll be put on a bus.

From what I understand, you can blame Governor Scott Walker. I believe the Wisconsin HSR funds that he turned down (and that my state, California, gladly accepted) included upgrades that would have made additional CHI-MSP frequencies possible.

 

[jphjaxfl]

I lived in the Twin Ciies for 20 year and used to travel Amtrak frequently. Even 10-15 years ago, it wasn't unusual for Amtrak to make up a coach only train from St. Paul to Chicago when the Empire Builder was hours late eastbound. Of course in the 70s through 1981, Amtrak ran a second train from Chicago to the Twin Cities. When 2 trains per day ran, they were always full with a good many people waiting at every station. I remember pulling into LaCrosse with lots of passengers waiting to board both east and westbound. That corridor crys for more trains.

 

[WICT106]

Train service between MSP and Chicago is a perfect example of everything that's wrong with Amtrak. There's a single unreliable train each day between the cities and it lumbers along on a schedule that's 2+ hours longer than trains of 60 years ago! In comparison, the airlines have approximately 45 flights every day in each direction, so you can see this is a major travel corridor. In addition, Greyhound has introduced express service between MSP and Chicago with brand new buses equipped with free wi-fi, leather seating, and extra legroom. Greyhound's advance purchase online fares are only $24 one-way. I have taken Amtrak between MSP and Chicago in the past, but it's unlikely I will in the future. Why should I pay fares that are sometimes as high as an airline ticket or three times the cost of Greyhound only to find out the train is running hours late and I'll be put on a bus.

From what I understand, you can blame Governor Scott Walker. I believe the Wisconsin HSR funds that he turned down (and that my state, California, gladly accepted) included upgrades that would have made additional CHI-MSP frequencies possible.

Correct. Governor Walker rejected the funds for any additional service, and now WI has to stand at the back of the line when it comes to Federal funds. Amtrak can't run these sorts of trains because Amtrak doesn't have the money. This would be an example of why funding for Amtrak has to increase, but many rail opponents will use the lack of funding as an excuse to cut rail funds even more. Those who use this as a reason to oppose more funding are ignorant of just how & why rail is in the state it's in in the US these days. Amtrak doesn't have the funds to leave a set of cars around the Saint Paul facilities, but Amtrak barely has enough funds for the current fleet they already have. I would most certainly like to see more trains on the MSP - CHI corridor, especially through Madison, but Walker, in a highly partisan move, rejected the necessary funds to upgrade the rails.

Of the WI proposal, over $ 600 million would have benefitted freight rail -- unfortunately, when this was mentioned, it was ignored, or many refused to believe it! This is part of what rail advocates are dealing with when they advocate for expansion or improvement of rail service -- people refuse to believe them. If you want trains over a particular corridor, then we must get together, join forces, and advocate for improved rail service throughout the US & Canada

On an aside, I would also like to see rail service from Chicago to Winnipeg, through Wisconsin & along the Current route through Saint Paul, MN.

 

[PRR 60]

Train service between MSP and Chicago is a perfect example of everything that's wrong with Amtrak. There's a single unreliable train each day between the cities and it lumbers along on a schedule that's 2+ hours longer than trains of 60 years ago! In comparison, the airlines have approximately 45 flights every day in each direction, so you can see this is a major travel corridor. In addition, Greyhound has introduced express service between MSP and Chicago with brand new buses equipped with free wi-fi, leather seating, and extra legroom. Greyhound's advance purchase online fares are only $24 one-way. I have taken Amtrak between MSP and Chicago in the past, but it's unlikely I will in the future. Why should I pay fares that are sometimes as high as an airline ticket or three times the cost of Greyhound only to find out the train is running hours late and I'll be put on a bus.

From what I understand, you can blame Governor Scott Walker. I believe the Wisconsin HSR funds that he turned down (and that my state, California, gladly accepted) included upgrades that would have made additional CHI-MSP frequencies possible.

That is not really true. The work associated with the proposed Madison train would have included upgrades of the Milwaukee and Watertown portion of the CP line used the Empire Builder. That is about 50 miles of the 330 mile route between MKE and MSP. The remaining 280 miles was not being touched. From Watertown west, the proposed route for the train to Madison was not on the line to Minneapolis, and those upgrades would have been of no immediate help for putting more trains between MKE and MSP.

The stated plan was to someday extend the Madison service on to Minneapolis, but that would be a neat trick since none of the existing rail routes out of Madison go directly to Minneapolis. At best, a route from Milwaukee to Minneapolis through Madison would be about 60 miles longer than the existing line, and the alignments of the existing lines are anything but "high speed." That is why the Empire Builder does not serve Madison today. Of course, for just a couple of tens of billion of dollars more, a new route could be established.

The sales pitch that the proposed Madison train was but the first step of a "high speed" rail line to Minneapolis was, by and large, vaporware.

 

[afigg]

I lived in the Twin Ciies for 20 year and used to travel Amtrak frequently. Even 10-15 years ago, it wasn't unusual for Amtrak to make up a coach only train from St. Paul to Chicago when the Empire Builder was hours late eastbound. Of course in the 70s through 1981, Amtrak ran a second train from Chicago to the Twin Cities. When 2 trains per day ran, they were always full with a good many people waiting at every station. I remember pulling into LaCrosse with lots of passengers waiting to board both east and westbound. That corridor crys for more trains.

With the funding set to buy 78 (or more) bi-level passenger coaches for the Midwest corridor services, that will free up equipment in a few years. Minneapolis will have to provide funding and may have to live with Horizon coach cars at the start until funding for more bi-levels is provided, but they should be able to start a second daily train from Chicago to the Twin cities. MN got $40 million from the HSIPR FY2010 grants to fix up the St. Paul Union Depot into a intermodal station. Think they will be very interested in adding a 2nd daily Amtrak train.

 

[Eric308]

Train service between MSP and Chicago is a perfect example of everything that's wrong with Amtrak. There's a single unreliable train each day between the cities and it lumbers along on a schedule that's 2+ hours longer than trains of 60 years ago! In comparison, the airlines have approximately 45 flights every day in each direction, so you can see this is a major travel corridor. In addition, Greyhound has introduced express service between MSP and Chicago with brand new buses equipped with free wi-fi, leather seating, and extra legroom. Greyhound's advance purchase online fares are only $24 one-way. I have taken Amtrak between MSP and Chicago in the past, but it's unlikely I will in the future. Why should I pay fares that are sometimes as high as an airline ticket or three times the cost of Greyhound only to find out the train is running hours late and I'll be put on a bus.

From what I understand, you can blame Governor Scott Walker. I believe the Wisconsin HSR funds that he turned down (and that my state, California, gladly accepted) included upgrades that would have made additional CHI-MSP frequencies possible.

That is not really true. The work associated with the proposed Madison train would have included upgrades of the Milwaukee and Watertown portion of the CP line used the Empire Builder. That is about 50 miles of the 330 mile route between MKE and MSP. The remaining 280 miles was not being touched. From Watertown west, the proposed route for the train to Madison was not on the line to Minneapolis, and those upgrades would have been of no immediate help for putting more trains between MKE and MSP.

The stated plan was to someday extend the Madison service on to Minneapolis, but that would be a neat trick since none of the existing rail routes out of Madison go directly to Minneapolis. At best, a route from Milwaukee to Minneapolis through Madison would be about 60 miles longer than the existing line, and the alignments of the existing lines are anything but "high speed." That is why the Empire Builder does not serve Madison today. Of course, for just a couple of tens of billion of dollars more, a new route could be established.

The sales pitch that the proposed Madison train was but the first step of a "high speed" rail line to Minneapolis was, by and large, vaporware.

I live in Madison and it takes me only 20 minutes to get the EB in Columbus (CBS).

 

[jis]

Train service between MSP and Chicago is a perfect example of everything that's wrong with Amtrak.

Actually, more accurately what's wrong with transport planning in the US at large, and specifically in the states of Minnesota and Wisconsin. Amtrak is but a symptom, not the cause. If Minnesota really believe they needed a good rail corridor to Chicago they would work with BNSF to revive the BNSF corridor through Aurora, since that is likely to be a faster route from the Twin Cities to Chicago. Of course if they considered MSP - MKE an important corridor too then they'd push harder for reinstatement of the CHI - MKE - MSP train.

There's a single unreliable train each day between the cities and it lumbers along on a schedule that's 2+ hours longer than trains of 60 years ago!

Yes, but it is only 30mins slower than the fastest train on the current route in 1969. What, other than utter magic, would cause it to become any faster than that today?

The faster route that was another 45 mins faster in 1969 does not have any passenger service today.

In comparison, the airlines have approximately 45 flights every day in each direction, so you can see this is a major travel corridor. In addition, Greyhound has introduced express service between MSP and Chicago with brand new buses equipped with free wi-fi, leather seating, and extra legroom. Greyhound's advance purchase online fares are only $24 one-way.

I would expect nothing less from two modes that were built to quite an extent on the backs of taxes levied on the railroads. Why is it surprising that they are today able to provide better service?

I have taken Amtrak between MSP and Chicago in the past, but it's unlikely I will in the future. Why should I pay fares that are sometimes as high as an airline ticket or three times the cost of Greyhound only to find out the train is running hours late and I'll be put on a bus.

Read some history of transportation development in the US, and it will become eminently clear why you are stuck in that situation. We the people in all our wisdom decided that we wanted it that way through our representatives that we elected. Beating up on Amtrak will not solve this problem, indeed if you even view this as a problem, which perhaps you don't.

So did you take Amtrak at a time when those 45 flights per day were not there? If not, why did you bother taking Amtrak in the first place considering that what you describe as reasons for not taking Amtrak existed just as much through the entire existence of Amtrak, more or less. Greyhound service between the Twin Cities and Chicago is actually considerably less frequent today than it was in the 70s and even early 80s.

 

[WICT106]

That is not really true. The work associated with the proposed Madison train would have included upgrades of the Milwaukee and Watertown portion of the CP line used the Empire Builder. That is about 50 miles of the 330 mile route between MKE and MSP. The remaining 280 miles was not being touched. From Watertown west, the proposed route for the train to Madison was not on the line to Minneapolis, and those upgrades would have been of no immediate help for putting more trains between MKE and MSP.

The stated plan was to someday extend the Madison service on to Minneapolis, but that would be a neat trick since none of the existing rail routes out of Madison go directly to Minneapolis. At best, a route from Milwaukee to Minneapolis through Madison would be about 60 miles longer than the existing line, and the alignments of the existing lines are anything but "high speed." That is why the Empire Builder does not serve Madison today. Of course, for just a couple of tens of billion of dollars more, a new route could be established.

The sales pitch that the proposed Madison train was but the first step of a "high speed" rail line to Minneapolis was, by and large, vaporware.

I live in Madison and it takes me only 20 minutes to get the EB in Columbus (CBS).

This raises another issue for those of us living west of downtown MSN. It takes me the better part of an hour to get from west of Madison to the Columbus station. It can even take me 20 minutes to get to the Memorial Union bus stop. Both of those are just from living in Middleton.