Most scenic route from east to west

[joelkfla]

The sleeping cars of the NYC's 20th Century Limited were always oriented so that the bedroom windows looked out on the Hudson River.

The sleeping cars of the LSL are always oriented so that the bedroom windows look away from the Hudson heading north, and out on the Hudson heading south (in normal operations.) That's because they always have the end with the Accessible Bedroom nearer to the Diner.

But Superliners have no such requirement.

 

[Eric in East County]

The sleeping cars of the LSL are always oriented so that the bedroom windows look away from the Hudson heading north, and out on the Hudson heading south (in normal operations.) That's because they always have the end with the Accessible Bedroom nearer to the Diner.

But Superliners have no such requirement.

Interesting about the LSL.

Just to refresh my memory, I went back and reread the section of Edward Hungerford’s 1930 book “The Run of the Twentieth Century” which tells about the NYC’s Mott Haven Yard “Y” which was used for turning cars. Here’s what he wrote: “It is a rule in the daily makeup of the Century that all drawing-rooms and compartments, whenever possible, must face the Hudson River side of the railroad both coming in and going out of New York. This means that the bulk of the sleeping-cars must not be turned in the New York Terminal. But obviously, both club-cars and observation-cars must be turned. There is the rub. And there is one of the things that brings grey hairs to the head of the general yardmaster.”

 

[TomPittsfieldMA]

This shows what's available for the taking on the FRA Safety Map:
View attachment 36156
Label and arrow are mine. The route prior to the Moffat Tunnel is very interesting, to me at least. Same goes for the predecessors of the present Cascade Tunnel on the route of the Empire Builder.

I'm taking the VIA Canadian next week from Montreal to Halifax and return, and have received this message:

"We’re reaching out with regard to your upcoming reservation with VIA Rail Canada on-board train 14 and/or train 15.

"We would like to inform our passengers of a recent decision to rearrange our train equipment in order to offer our Sleeper Plus class passengers a view of the ocean side throughout their trip. The orientation of the train has been modified to ensure that all bedroom windows face in the direction of the ocean. For this reason, the direction in which the bedrooms were facing has been changed.

"If this does not suit your needs, you may contact our customer center to modify your cabin allocation before departure, if space permits" [details follow on how to do that]

I assume they are turning the train at both terminals between runs.

 

[fdaley]

On the trip west from Chicago, is there a good side/bad side of the train? Currently I just reserved my tix (not bought yet) and have been given room
E room in car 0532. Is that a good room? Should I ask for another? Thank you.

Ooops, No. I have room B.

As to which side is the best for scenery heading westbound on the Zephyr, I think Steve4031's recent post about this subject in another thread is very useful:

As you leave Denver, the best side is the right side. Then after you leave Granby the best side is the left as you go through canyons along the Colorado River. Then about 1 hour before Glenwood Springs the best side is the right side as you follow the Colorado River through Glenwood Canyon. After Glenwood Springs it does not matter so much which side you are on.
After you leave Truckee on the last day, the best side to be on is the right side as you ascend Donner Pass. Then as you descend, the left side is the best side for scenery. After Colfax, it does not matter so much. Then after Martinez, there is the San Francisco Bay along the right side.

As others have said, the bedrooms in the Superliner cars on the Zephyr are all oriented in the same direction, so they will all be looking out to either left or right depending on which way the car is turned. So if you find you're facing left and want to look out to the right, your choices are to open the door to the hallway and look out the hallway window -- or to try to find a seat in the Sightseer Lounge.

As for the choice of rooms, Bedrooms B, C, D and E are all the same size. Bedroom A is a bit smaller, and some of us avoid it for that reason. (On one trip with my wife and young son, we found it a tight squeeze, noticeably more cramped than what we were expecting based on past experience with the other bedrooms.) Bedroom A is also at the end of the car, above the wheels, making for bumpier ride if the track is rough, though not as bumpy as in the lower-level family room.

Some people feel Bedroom A is quieter because it's the only bedroom with a solid wall on both sides. The others each have a partition that can be removed between sets of rooms (B/C, D/E) to create a bedroom suite. The partition makes it easier to overhear conversation and other sounds from the adjoining room, though I am not usually bothered by this unless the neighbors are particularly noisy.

I would be a bit concerned about being in car 532, if only because Amtrak in the past couple of years has sometimes canceled sleeper cars on short notice because of pandemic-related equipment shortages. It would be better to have a room in car 531, which is considered the "base" sleeper on the Zephyr, and therefore the one least prone to cancellation, if there is a bedroom still available in that car on the date you're traveling.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I'm taking the VIA Canadian next week from Montreal to Halifax and return, and have received this message:

"We’re reaching out with regard to your upcoming reservation with VIA Rail Canada on-board train 14 and/or train 15.

"We would like to inform our passengers of a recent decision to rearrange our train equipment in order to offer our Sleeper Plus class passengers a view of the ocean side throughout their trip. The orientation of the train has been modified to ensure that all bedroom windows face in the direction of the ocean. For this reason, the direction in which the bedrooms were facing has been changed.

"If this does not suit your needs, you may contact our customer center to modify your cabin allocation before departure, if space permits" [details follow on how to do that]

I assume they are turning the train at both terminals between runs.

Minor correction: you are on the Ocean, not the Canadian.

 

[fdaley]

I just noticed that most of you seem to have positions on trains. Clearly you love trains and love working on them.

Just to clarify, the titles "Engineer," "OBS Chief," etc. under our screen names in this forum are honorary and don't actually mean we are employed by Amtrak or any other railroad, although there probably are a few employees or ex-employees here.

 

[MARC Rider]

Interesting about the LSL.

Just to refresh my memory, I went back and reread the section of Edward Hungerford’s 1930 book “The Run of the Twentieth Century” which tells about the NYC’s Mott Haven Yard “Y” which was used for turning cars. Here’s what he wrote: “It is a rule in the daily makeup of the Century that all drawing-rooms and compartments, whenever possible, must face the Hudson River side of the railroad both coming in and going out of New York. This means that the bulk of the sleeping-cars must not be turned in the New York Terminal. But obviously, both club-cars and observation-cars must be turned. There is the rub. And there is one of the things that brings grey hairs to the head of the general yardmaster.”

I rode up along the Hudson in Hickory Creek last May. This was one of the observation cars from the 1948 version of the 20th Century Limited. In addition to the lounge at the rear, it has 2 bedrooms. Both are on the left side of the car. That means you have a view of the Hudson when heading north out of New York and a view of the hillsides and such when heading south. There is no way they can arrange the train to allow for a Hudson view from the bedrooms of this car on the southbound trip. Of course, you can just walk out of the bedroom into the lounge and get all the river views you want.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I rode up along the Hudson in Hickory Creek last May. This was one of the observation cars from the 1948 version of the 20th Century Limited. In addition to the lounge at the rear, it has 2 bedrooms. Both are on the left side of the car. That means you have a view of the Hudson when heading north out of New York and a view of the hillsides and such when heading south. There is no way they can arrange the train to allow for a Hudson view from the bedrooms of this car on the southbound trip. Of course, you can just walk out of the bedroom into the lounge and get all the river views you want.

Still fondly remember when several AUers met up on National Train Day in DC @ Union Station( whatever happened to that????), and toured Hickory Creek!

 

[Dan Olsen]

Just a future pitch for upcoming restored routes. I think folks will really enjoy the North Coast Hiawatha when it is restored through the historic route across the southern tier of Montana. A lot of the "scenic" marketing photos from "back in the day" for passenger rail were taken along that route. If we can get it restored along the historic route the section from Logan Mt ==> Garrison, Mt can't be beat for the Jefferson River Canyon, Homestake Pass between Whitehall and Butte, Durant Canyon from Butte to Deer Lodge, MT. If you like the Rocky Mountains, the route from Billings through to Sandpoint, ID is running in Big Sky Country river valleys with mountains in view, Continental Divide crossing at east of Butte and on down the Clark Fork of the Columbia River to SandPoint.
I think you'll also find the intermediate stops along that route will open new adventures for those who love the outdoors . . . Yellowstone Park & River, Madison, Gallatin & Jefferson Rivers, Red Lodge, Bridger Bowl, Big Sky, Discovery Basin and Snow Bowl ski areas.
. . . but then I'm biased because these what keeps me here and out of the big-city rat race. . .

 

[Willbridge]

Just a future pitch for upcoming restored routes. I think folks will really enjoy the North Coast Hiawatha when it is restored through the historic route across the southern tier of Montana. A lot of the "scenic" marketing photos from "back in the day" for passenger rail were taken along that route. If we can get it restored along the historic route the section from Logan Mt ==> Garrison, Mt can't be beat for the Jefferson River Canyon, Homestake Pass between Whitehall and Butte, Durant Canyon from Butte to Deer Lodge, MT. If you like the Rocky Mountains, the route from Billings through to Sandpoint, ID is running in Big Sky Country river valleys with mountains in view, Continental Divide crossing at east of Butte and on down the Clark Fork of the Columbia River to SandPoint.
I think you'll also find the intermediate stops along that route will open new adventures for those who love the outdoors . . . Yellowstone Park & River, Madison, Gallatin & Jefferson Rivers, Red Lodge, Bridger Bowl, Big Sky, Discovery Basin and Snow Bowl ski areas.
. . . but then I'm biased because these what keeps me here and out of the big-city rat race. . .

When I rode the North Coast Limited in 1967, from the coach dome I noticed there was a big puddle at the Continental Divide. Apparently, the water couldn't decide which ocean to join.

 

[jiml]

I'm taking the VIA Canadian next week from Montreal to Halifax and return, and have received this message:

"We’re reaching out with regard to your upcoming reservation with VIA Rail Canada on-board train 14 and/or train 15.

"We would like to inform our passengers of a recent decision to rearrange our train equipment in order to offer our Sleeper Plus class passengers a view of the ocean side throughout their trip. The orientation of the train has been modified to ensure that all bedroom windows face in the direction of the ocean. For this reason, the direction in which the bedrooms were facing has been changed.

"If this does not suit your needs, you may contact our customer center to modify your cabin allocation before departure, if space permits" [details follow on how to do that]

I assume they are turning the train at both terminals between runs.

Actually what is happening is they are positioning the sleepers for the ideal view when the train leaves Montreal and NOT turning it at the Halifax terminus, thus ensuring the same view in both directions. This started a while ago when VIA lost access to the turning loop in Halifax and simply started running the engines around the consist to connect to the other end. Kudos to them for making a necessity sound like a feature.

 

[niemi24s]

When I rode the North Coast Limited in 1967, from the coach dome I noticed there was a big puddle at the Continental Divide. Apparently, the water couldn't decide which ocean to join.

Could this possibly explain it? https://www.google.com/search?q=riv...ate=ive&vld=cid:8f691851,vid:mN2flAvdQXU,st:0

 

[Dan Olsen]

When I rode the North Coast Limited in 1967, from the coach dome I noticed there was a big puddle at the Continental Divide. Apparently, the water couldn't decide which ocean to join.

Good catch on that and a good memory
That "pond" actually has a railroad backstory. Currently, the pond/lake is named Homestake Lake (the Continental Divide pass a couple hundred yards west of there is called Homestake Pass). It has a USFS Campground and picnic area and hosts a kids summer fishing derby usually.
The "depression" that Homestake Lake occupies was actually a railroad ballast quarry/pit. The railroad ballast was mined here for placement along the "Butte Short Line" route which was surveyed & started construction in 1889. The first passenger train passed over that route when the route was completed on June 15, 1890 and did so until October 6, 1979 when Amtrak discontinued service along the North Coast Hiawatha route (and many other Amtrak routes). If you'll recall your trip, it cuts through the granite of the monoliths of the Boulder Batholith. It amazes me to this day that the construction of that route from Logan to Garrison, Montana, where it respectively leaves and rejoins the main BNSF route today, was constructed by manual labor in a single year. This was done with shovels, dynamite (invented in 1867 by Nobel) and real "horsepower". But, there was an experienced workforce available in Butte, where underground mining was just ramping up from gold, to silver and ultimately copper to become what is termed "The Richest Hill on Earth". It would become the largest copper producer in the world with copper and other minerals. A critical copper producer for the explosion of electricity in the early 20th century with its 10,000 miles of underground tunnels and the largest city between Chicago and Seattle. That copper was used to bring electricity for the mining operations from the Missouri River Hydroelectric Dams via the longest power transmission lines at the time from Great Falls to Butte in 1911. Those transmission lines continue to operate today with a substantial number of the original steel transmission towers.
. . . rabbit hole history lesson for today is dismissed . . . For a well-written book on that line, search for "The Butte Short Line: The construction era from 1888-1029" by Bill and Jan Taylor

 

[Dan Olsen]

Could this possibly explain it? https://www.google.com/search?q=riv...ate=ive&vld=cid:8f691851,vid:mN2flAvdQXU,st:0

I was also going to give that reference to Two-Ocean Creek in NW Wyoming south of Yellowstone Park. It actually starts as a single creek and then splits in to Atlantic and Pacific creeks which finally end up in their respective oceans. So, theoretically, a fish could swim up Pacific Creek to Two Ocean Creek and then down Atlantic Creek.
"Homestake Lake" (above) sits a couple hundred yards east of the Continental Divide. It drains east to the Jefferson River via Homestake Creek. The Jefferson River at Headwaters State Park joins the Gallatin and Madison Rivers to form the Missouri River which then flows to St. Louis where it joins the Mississippi River on its journey to the Gulf of Mexico.
. . . while we're on "Divide" trivia. Take a look at Triple Divide Peak in Glacier National Park which besides the Atlantic and Pacific drainages, also drains into the Hudson Bay in NE Canada, thus the "triple" divide.

 

[Willbridge]

I was also going to give that reference to Two-Ocean Creek in NW Wyoming south of Yellowstone Park. It actually starts as a single creek and then splits in to Atlantic and Pacific creeks which finally end up in their respective oceans. So, theoretically, a fish could swim up Pacific Creek to Two Ocean Creek and then down Atlantic Creek.
"Homestake Lake" (above) sits a couple hundred yards east of the Continental Divide. It drains east to the Jefferson River via Homestake Creek. The Jefferson River at Headwaters State Park joins the Gallatin and Madison Rivers to form the Missouri River which then flows to St. Louis where it joins the Mississippi River on its journey to the Gulf of Mexico.
. . . while we're on "Divide" trivia. Take a look at Triple Divide Peak in Glacier National Park which besides the Atlantic and Pacific drainages, also drains into the Hudson Bay in NE Canada, thus the "triple" divide.

Triple Divide is my favorite non-rail place around the park vicinity. Port of Del Bonita is my favorite border crossing. And the Calgary <> Great Falls sleeper is one of my trivia favorites. It's an interesting area.

 

[MIrailfan]

IMHO, its the Zephyr or the Empire Builder.

 

[B&Ofan]

I would have to say the Zephyr west of Denver is the best scenery. Other notable routes I have ridden (in no order) Capitol limited through West Virginia, Northeast corridor coastal running between New Haven and Boston, The southern portion of the Coast starlight. and the Cascades just north of Seattle. Some of the best scenery on Empire builder happens at night, although one winter I was heading to Seattle and a snow covered tree branch broke the windshield of our lead locomotive. A BNSF crew was able to clear out a nearby Y track to turn our engines and we were able to continue. We went through Stevens pass during the day, and it was like traveling through a snow globe. Quite spectacular. I was never so glad to be on a 4 hour ;late train!