Metro North to remove or lessen Acela tilt restriction?

[NE933]

Another rail forum, Railroad.net, has discussion that claims starting next week, the Acela's tilt feature that allows higher speeds around curves by tilting the cars inward while stopping passengers and objects from flying into the side via centrifugal force, will be allowed for the first time. Amtrak had been instructed to keep the tilt disabled for fears of tight track center clearances, an operating action that inspired many an argument of the tilt feature keeping passengers comfortable vs. reducing lateral forces exerted on a curve's outer rail. Add the fact that Acela locomotives' wheel hunting that were never resolved and we have lots of confusion.

But anyway, confine to the question, is a decision by MetroNorth to allow Amtrak to use tilt on the Acelas, imminent? And why now? Did the recent accidents cause someone to go out trackside with a ruler to measure the distances between tracks and discover they are not as bad as once believed? Or, that there are tight track center on straight track, but wider on curves, wide enough for Acela to go faster? Do speak. Please.

 

[ACS-64]

The special instruction you reference goes away on Monday 2/17.

 

[jis]

Are there any consequent change in civil speed limits on curves for tilting Acelas?

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[CHamilton]

NE933, you missed the chance for a great headline: "Amtrak Goes Tilt"

 

[engr08]

I didn't see that anywhere but now that it has been mention I have to start asking some questions. If the tilt was to be enable on Metro North territory how much faster can that train go? Would it be any different than the speed its currently operating? Metro North has been under the spotlight with the FRA so I'm wondering if they did anything to improve there infrastructure? Also I was reading in another forum (subchat) that the governor of Conn. is looking for another operator to take over the New Haven line. He also stated that Amtrak can possibly take it over because they already operate the SLE service. From the way I understand it they were talking about someone taking over the infrastructure duties like maintaining the tracks and etc. If I'm wrong excuse me in advance, not trying to provide something false or start a rumor.

 

[MikefromCrete]

Since Metro North is now under intensive federal oversight I doubt if they will be making any operations changes for quite a while. Having Amtrak take over any CDOT operations is iffy at best, What would happen at the New York border? Everybody get off the CDOT/Amtrak train and change to a Metro North train? Think commuters complain now? Any changes would involve Connecticut having a bigger say in Metro North operations.

 

[Acela150]

I'll be on 2153 this upcoming Thursday and will report back if I notice the tilt active on MNRR..

 

[afigg]

Are there any consequent change in civil speed limits on curves for tilting Acelas?

According to the posts on rr.net, there are no speed changes with the order lifting the tilt restriction. It is odd that this would happen now with the slow orders, track maintenance issues, power system issues, and intense scrutiny from the FRA. The result for Amtrak has been longer NYP-BOS Acela trip times with the fastest now at 3:37. Getting further away from the one time goal of 3 hours or 3:08 than several years ago.

Could the lifting of the tilt restriction have anything to do with the completion or near completion of the catenary replacement and bridge rehabilitation project for the 7 mile segment that between Westport and Bridgeport which has been 2 tracked for much of the past several years? The most recent CT DOT report on the project had the primary work completed by March 8, 2014. However, I don't see why it would. Besides, given the recent winter weather and problems at MNRR, I would expect the project could have gotten further delayed.

 

[afigg]

Since Metro North is now under intensive federal oversight I doubt if they will be making any operations changes for quite a while. Having Amtrak take over any CDOT operations is iffy at best, What would happen at the New York border? Everybody get off the CDOT/Amtrak train and change to a Metro North train? Think commuters complain now? Any changes would involve Connecticut having a bigger say in Metro North operations.

If CT were to opt for a different operator for the New Haven Line and NY state were to agree, the new operator would run the trains to GCT. They would not being something as stupid as stopping at the state border. Metro-North is a publicly owned agency as part of MTA under the control of the states of NY and CT. If the state governments decide to have a different arrangement, they can do that.

I doubt that there will be such a major change. There are a LOT of unhappy riders and their elected representatives in CT and to some extent in NY with the reliability and all the recent problems at Metro-North. So the politicians are expressing their displeasure with the intent of putting MNRR and MTA management on notice.

I also doubt that Amtrak would be interested in running the New Haven Line commuter service. That is a headache they do not need. The maintenance of tracks and physical infrastructure and upgrade projects for the New Haven Line could be a different matter.

 

[AlanB]

I doubt that there will be such a major change. There are a LOT of unhappy riders and their elected representatives in CT and to some extent in NY with the reliability and all the recent problems at Metro-North. So the politicians are expressing their displeasure with the intent of putting MNRR and MTA management on notice.

I think its a case of the Grass is Always Greener on the Other Side of the Fence. And clearly they aren't paying too much attention up in CT to the reports out of NJ; the ones where NJT always seems to blame Amtrak for any problems, even if it is an NJT problem.

I doubt that Amtrak would be interested in running the New Haven Line commuter service. That is a headache they do not need. The maintenance of tracks and physical infrastructure and upgrade projects for the New Haven Line could be a different matter.

Running probably not so much, as it would be too complicated. But if paid enough, I'm sure Amtrak would be happy to take over maintenance and stuff, especially if they could also get their hands on the dispatching. All too often Amtrak has been stabbed by MN dispatching giving priority to their own trains.

Of course with Amtrak dispatching, CT would now have another thing to complain about, much like NJT about those nasty Amtrak trains going first.

 

[jis]

Hey, some of us have advocated (individually) for a single organization responsible for all NEC infrastructure and dispatching, providing infra and dispatching services to various train operating companies, which are completely separate from the infrastructure company, thus allowing it to provide a level playing field and pricing slots depending on quality and characteristics of the slot in terms of speed, priority etc.

This however is not a popular position among either the railroaders or a significant group of rail advocates. People do want to hide behind the mythical vertical integration mantra to retain fiefdoms that will forever remain unaccountable and uncotrollable because no one exactly knows what money is being spent where for what.

Mind you this is purely an organizational discussion, not a privatization discussion. All of these organizations could remain federal or state owned or supported outfits, or some could be privatized. Train Operations have already gone the route of private contracting by government organizations that have worked reasonably successfully in several place, and not so at a few others.

However, it should be noted that any change will be fraught and time consuming since there is a century of ossified traditions to work through first. It will require a few more existential crises to get it all fixed.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

Are there any consequent change in civil speed limits on curves for tilting Acelas?

Could the lifting of the tilt restriction have anything to do with the completion or near completion of the catenary replacement and bridge rehabilitation project for the 7 mile segment that between Westport and Bridgeport which has been 2 tracked for much of the past several years? The most recent CT DOT report on the project had the primary work completed by March 8, 2014.

[SIZE=11pt]Nice link with interesting info. But I didn't find the March 8 date you refer to.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Instead, I found this:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Project Closeout [/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Original Schedule November 05, 2011 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Current Schedule December 23, 2014 [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]I see opportunity for still further delays. [/SIZE]

 

[railiner]

Hey, some of us have advocated (individually) for a single organization responsible for all NEC infrastructure and dispatching, providing infra and dispatching services to various train operating companies, which are completely separate from the infrastructure company, thus allowing it to provide a level playing field and pricing slots depending on quality and characteristics of the slot in terms of speed, priority etc.

This however is not a popular position among either the railroaders or a significant group of rail advocates. People do want to hide behind the mythical vertical integration mantra to retain fiefdoms that will forever remain unaccountable and uncotrollable because no one exactly knows what money is being spent where for what.

Mind you this is purely an organizational discussion, not a privatization discussion. All of these organizations could remain federal or state owned or supported outfits, or some could be privatized. Train Operations have already gone the route of private contracting by government organizations that have worked reasonably successfully in several place, and not so at a few others.

However, it should be noted that any change will be fraught and time consuming since there is a century of ossified traditions to work through first. It will require a few more existential crises to get it all fixed.

Well, for a while we did have a single organization responsible for all NEC infrastructure and dispatching.....and also for all train operations....it was known as the Penn Central

 

[jis]

Which was even more broke than the current operators and to bbot, didn;t want to have anything to do with passenger train operations even if its life depended on it, for getting the subsidies from the various states.

 

[afigg]

Could the lifting of the tilt restriction have anything to do with the completion or near completion of the catenary replacement and bridge rehabilitation project for the 7 mile segment that between Westport and Bridgeport which has been 2 tracked for much of the past several years? The most recent CT DOT report on the project had the primary work completed by March 8, 2014.

Nice link with interesting info. But I didn't find the March 8 date you refer to.
Instead, I found this:

Project Closeout

Original Schedule November 05, 2011

Current Schedule December 23, 2014

I see opportunity for still further delays.

The March 8 date is the projected completion of "Stage 8B - Cat. & Br. Work 1, 3 out". Stage 9 "Fairfield Ave. Road Work" has a September, 2014 projected completion. If Stage 9 is just wrapping up road work around and under the railroad bridge, then perhaps all 4 tracks get returned to service in March. Or not. Would be useful to find out if there was any track shifting or track spacing increase on the big curve in Bridgeport as part of this project that may factor into the lifting of the tilt restriction. However, if there was a such a change to the tracks, I expect people would have posted about it.

 

[afigg]

Hey, some of us have advocated (individually) for a single organization responsible for all NEC infrastructure and dispatching, providing infra and dispatching services to various train operating companies, which are completely separate from the infrastructure company, thus allowing it to provide a level playing field and pricing slots depending on quality and characteristics of the slot in terms of speed, priority etc.

There are good arguments to having a single joint organization or agency responsible for the NEC infrastructure and dispatching services. However the organization has to be properly funded, which obviously could be a challenge.
Another major issue as I see it is how to make sure that the joint agency is not "captured" by the interests of a particular group or commuter operation on the NEC over the others as Presidents, Governors, legislative power brokers change. Amtrak, as the only one who operates over the full extent of the NEC and beyond, should remain inclined to loom out for the interests of the entire NEC and not, for example, put most of the funding at one time into replacing the bridges on the New Haven Line as CT might want to do.

 

[jis]

An order came out earlier today postponing the change until the full effect of the winter on the ROW can be fully evaluated.

With these things you can never tell for sure until the proverbial fat lady sings!

 

[Ryan N.]

I took 2259 today. If you can hear the tilt system operating, and I believe that's what that humming noise is, the tilt operated over my entire trip (BOS to NWK).