Locomotive controls

[trainfan]

I was watching a youtube vidio of a Brittish train and the engineer was on the left side of the cab<

so it got me to thinking why the engineer is on the right side on US locomotives ,Is there a reason

why ? We drive on the left side of an auto and they are on the right!!

Just too much time to think about things on these long winter nights!!!

Trainfan

 

[caravanman]

Hi,

Someone might know better, but my guess is that it just happened.. someone decided that the signals would be on the left of the track in the UK, and someone else decided on the right in America. I know they are on the left in India, but not sure about Europe.. although I have a feeling they are on the left there too..

Ed

 

[railiner]

Interesting question!

Didn't the former C&NW operate on the left track on two track lines? Don't know if they still do. But whichever, I believe the engineer sat on the right side of the cab regardless...

 

[PennCentralFan]

Interesting question!

Didn't the former C&NW operate on the left track on two track lines? Don't know if they still do. But whichever, I believe the engineer sat on the right side of the cab regardless...

Yes the Chicago & NorthWestern was known as the left track railroad.

 

[Trogdor]

Signals can be on either side of the track.

As for the CNW, the UP (formerly CNW) commuter lines in Chicago still do left-hand operation.

 

[gswager]

Probably was started during the steam powered locomotive days where there are no front windows. The engineer had to stick his head out of the side to look at the signals.

 

[oldtimer]

The first two RTG train sets that Amtrak used in Chicago - St. Louis service were originally leased from the SNCF and had the control stands on the left side of the cab.

 

[had8ley]

Many of the NEC signals are cantilevered above the track upon which the train is running. I believe the Empire route has some of these also. There's probably a hundred more examples but these two places probably have the most signals attached to a structure above the track being traveled upon.

 

[Grandpa D]

Slightly off topic but something I've wondered about. Assuming there are two engineers on board, can they change engineers while the train is running or must they stop?

 

[George Harris]

Had8ley should be able to answer most of this far better than I can.

In years past, it was a requirement that the signals be either on the right side or overhead.

Steam locomotive cabs did have a window to the front in front of both the engineeer's and the fireman's seat. On the larger engines it was pretty small. Teh engineer may have stuck his head out of the window part of the time, but he did not stay that way.

Do not know how the engineer on the right side got started. However, on double track lines with right hand runnning it was/is far safer for the engineer to be on the right hand side, as that way he had the engine between himself and anything dangling from the trian he was meeting, or in case the train being met derailed.

Engineer on the right was also a part of requirment for signals to be on the right. Even for overhead signals, in general they were offset to the right from the center of track by about 6 ot 7 feet.

Back in steam days, particularly when engines were hand fired, the fireman was not looking out the window. Instead, he was busy feeding and looking after the fire.

 

[DET63]

I was watching a youtube vidio of a Brittish train and the engineer was on the left side of the cab<

so it got me to thinking why the engineer is on the right side on US locomotives ,Is there a reason

why ? We drive on the left side of an auto and they are on the right!!

Just too much time to think about things on these long winter nights!!!

Trainfan

In Europe, practices vary from country to country. In France, the trains run on the left, though I believe they run on the right on the Paris Metro. In Spain, they run on the right, though I believe they run on the left on the Madrid subway. I think German trains run on the right, but I'm not sure about the U-bahns and S-bahns that several cities have.

I would imagine that light-rail and streetcar (tram) vehicles circulate the same as automobile traffic with which they often share the road.

Trackside signs often tend to be very small (compared to road and highway signs), so it is easier for the engineer to be on the same side of the locomotive as the signs.

With all of this said, however, however, I believe most major American railroads (including Amtrak) can operate their trains on either the right or left track, depending on which is safest or most convenient in a particular location. I think that Amtrak trains are often moved onto the track closest to the next station, especially if (as in many small towns) passengers would otherwise have to walk across a track when getting on or off the train. So long as signals and signs can be read by the engineer of a train running on the "wrong" track, there really should be no problem.

 

[had8ley]

Had8ley should be able to answer most of this far better than I can.

In years past, it was a requirement that the signals be either on the right side or overhead.

Steam locomotive cabs did have a window to the front in front of both the engineeer's and the fireman's seat. On the larger engines it was pretty small. Teh engineer may have stuck his head out of the window part of the time, but he did not stay that way.

Do not know how the engineer on the right side got started. However, on double track lines with right hand runnning it was/is far safer for the engineer to be on the right hand side, as that way he had the engine between himself and anything dangling from the trian he was meeting, or in case the train being met derailed.

Engineer on the right was also a part of requirment for signals to be on the right. Even for overhead signals, in general they were offset to the right from the center of track by about 6 ot 7 feet.

Back in steam days, particularly when engines were hand fired, the fireman was not looking out the window. Instead, he was busy feeding and looking after the fire.

George is as right as right can be...I think they may be a few examples of where a signal cannot be positioned on the right side of the right of way because of clearance problems or the signal is in such a tight curve that it is purposely situated on the left side to facilitate train movements. But strictly speaking, most signals are on the right side or raised overhead as on the NEC. Funny thing about the poor fireman on steam~ he didn't get to call signals most of the time but when he called "meal period" the entire crew went to eat. One of the few privileges the fireman had!

 

[AlanB]

Slightly off topic but something I've wondered about. Assuming there are two engineers on board, can they change engineers while the train is running or must they stop?

I don't know if there is some FRA rule that might prohibit such a change while moving, but the engine controls would allow them to change places assuming that they didn't take too long to do it.

On the other hand, changing motormen on a subway train would be very difficult, although not impossible, as you must keep downward pressure on the controller at all times or the train goes into emergency.

 

[had8ley]

Slightly off topic but something I've wondered about. Assuming there are two engineers on board, can they change engineers while the train is running or must they stop?

I don't know if there is some FRA rule that might prohibit such a change while moving, but the engine controls would allow them to change places assuming that they didn't take too long to do it.

On the other hand, changing motormen on a subway train would be very difficult, although not impossible, as you must keep downward pressure on the controller at all times or the train goes into emergency.

I'm not aware of any rule that would require stopping a freight train to swap engineers. We did it all the time when we had a fireman on freight and on pax when we were piloting.

 

[jis]

In Europe, practices vary from country to country. In France, the trains run on the left, though I believe they run on the right on the Paris Metro.

In France trains run on the left except in Alsace-Lorraine where they run on the right. This is because Alsace-Lorraine was part of Germany when the railways were built there, and German trains run nominally on the right side.

Most lines on Paris Metro run on the right but there are a few exceptions. The RER lines run on the left since they connect to the main line network.

With all of this said, however, however, I believe most major American railroads (including Amtrak) can operate their trains on either the right or left track, depending on which is safest or most convenient in a particular location. I think that Amtrak trains are often moved onto the track closest to the next station, especially if (as in many small towns) passengers would otherwise have to walk across a track when getting on or off the train. So long as signals and signs can be read by the engineer of a train running on the "wrong" track, there really should be no problem.

If the signaling system is setup to allow bi-directional signaling then trains can run on whichever track. If they are not, then it takes a track warrant (e.g. a Form-D under NORAC governed operations) to do wrong track running.

For example on the NEC in 4 track areas between Newark NJ (CP Dock West) and Marcus Hook PA (CP Hook), the outer tracks are signaled for unidirectional running (NORAC Rule 251), except around stations like Metropark, Trenton etc. The inner tracks are signaled for bi-directional running (NORAC Rule 261). Due to track outage if a west bound train has to be moved to track 3 from track 2 that can be done easily since track 3 is Rule 261, but to move it to track 4 takes a Form-D.

So bottom line is it depends on what signaling rules apply on which track in that territory and what authorization the train is carrying at the moment. This is uniformly true in all countries with significant rail infrastructure, though of course the rule books that apply do differ, and track authority conventions and protocols also differ significantly from country to country and even from region to region (e.g. NORAC and GCOR in the US) and even railroad to railroad (e.g LIRR rules differ from NORAC, though they do use NORAC Harold to Penn Station).

As for train operating position, the tendency on high speed trains is to place the operating position more or less in the center. Interestingly, even though the French LGV (and British HS-1) do not have any trackside signals at all in TVM 430 (or 300) territory, they do have trackside block marker boards (Repere Board) which are always on the left of the track. I wonder what they will do if they ever build any right hand running LGV

 

[had8ley]

Up until recent times (pre-NS) the Southern Railway locomotives all ran "backwards" with the engineer on the wrong side of the cab. I was told by more than one Southern employee that the engines were run backwards to keep the crew from getting hurt from all the logging trucks that they hit. You would think coal black wouldn't be the color you'd want to paint a locomotive in order to be seen in order to avoid a collision.

 

[Tracktwentynine]

On the other hand, changing motormen on a subway train would be very difficult, although not impossible, as you must keep downward pressure on the controller at all times or the train goes into emergency.

Depends on the system. The more modern systems don't have these controls. In fact, in Atlanta and Washington* the operators don't even have to be seated at the controls for the train to operate in automatic mode. In manual mode, however, the throttle is spring-loaded and a lack of pressure would return it to the neutral (not braking, however) position.

A good example would be in Atlanta, where when the train makes a station stop with a left-side platform, the operator closes the doors (with his head out the window). Once all the red door indicator lights go out, he can push a "proceed" button (if the train is being operated in automatic mode) which will start the train moving. He keeps his head out for a few seconds to make sure no one is being dragged. Then he can mosey over to the control panel. Meanwhile, the train has continued to accelerate within the speed parameters of the ATC system.

*Since the June 22, 2009 crash on the Red Line, all Washington Metro trains are operating solely in manual mode.

 

[Ryan]

I believe (since it's been a year and a half since they used it) that the automatic mode in Washington doesn't even have the "proceed" button. Once the doors are all closed, the train will start. The trains also automatically stop themselves at the correct location on the platform and open the doors, the only operator intervention required is to close the doors at the right time.

 

[DET63]

I think the BART mode is similar to the Atlanta MARTA and Washington Metro automatic modes. I have seen operators take some time to "mosey" (as Tracktwentynine put it) over to the control seat once the doors were closed and the train started to leave the station. Since BART trains lack a "railfan" window (both "A" and "C" cars), there is no way that the operator would be able know anything was happening in front of the train while moseying back to his (or her) seat. Leaving stations with right-side platforms, however, I believe the operator is able to remain seated, though it might be necessary to stand up in order to poke the head out the window and see the platform and doors better.