Let the leasing begin

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battalion51

Engineer
Joined
Aug 23, 2002
Messages
7,193
Location
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Conn DOT has picked up the first of its lease units from Amtrak. According to Geoff's Rail Notes the first unit is the 833. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe these units while be used on the Shorline East where they could definitely use some new power.
 
AFAIK that's one place where they will be used. They may also be used by MN on the outlying New Haven Waterbury and Danbury branches on the shuttle trains.

They can't run into GCT, since they don't have third rail capabilities.
 
The third rail issue is one obstacle the mayor obstacle is the Amtrak units do not have a crew escape hatch in nose, incase of fire this would be only way for engineer to get out in the tunnels.

The P40's will be used on SLE and the two Branch lines, Waterbury and Danbury.

The SLE GP40-2h are actualy newer and in 100% better shape than the beat up P40's. the GP40-2h are from 1996 and were totally rebuilt from wheels up.

The P40's are from 1993 and are totally beat up with about 4 million miles on them.

I got feeling the lease won't be long, the fuel cost on the GE's on a two or three car train will be astronomical, vs the smaller cummins HEP on the GP40-2h's or the FL9m's on branches.
 
The escape hatch is completely and totally nuts as a reason why they can't be used to go into GCT, it's the third rail issue. Amtrak and Mtero North both own the Genesis Series II (otherwise known as the P32AC-DM). These engines have nearly identical designs, no escape hatch, and actually fewer exits from the engine itself. The P32 has a total of 6, two in the cab, two in the engine room, and two in the helicopter room. Meanwhile the P40 has seven, two in the cab, two in the engine room, and three in the helicopter room, the noticable difference being the back door to the engine that allows access to the train or a trailing unit.

As far as fuel consumption is concerned its absurd to think that the GE's are going to burn more fuel than the GP-40's or FL9's. Those engines were built decades ago with less refined technology. The GP-40 is essentially the same power plant as an F-40, so why would anyone design and buy an engine that's less fuel efficient than its predecessor? Do the P-40's have some miles on them, yes. But so do the GP-40's and FL9's, probably more than the P-40's do. I would also find it hard to believe that the engines have 4 million miles on them. If they had that many miles on them that would require them to travel 913 miles everyday, 365 days a year, for 12 years. Keep in mind this unit was captive on the Sunset and Auto Train for a number of years, so the most it could do is 1710 miles over a 3 day period, nevermind down time for inspections, repairs, etc.
 
Battalion, actually the metro north units do have an escape hatch on the front. It is surrounding the mta logo on the nose. http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=97078

My guess is without a foward escape hatch it would be dangerous for the engineer to climb out of the loco on the side in the park avenue tunnel. Thats a 4 track electrificied 3rd rail tunnel, so it would be possible to accidently hit the 3rd rail in a dark rush out of the cab.

I would only think these units will be on shoreline east, and possible future use on the planned commuter rail on the springfield line. The FL9's are beccomming older, and with upcomming winters I dont think CDOT wants to take any extra risks.
 
engine999 said:
My guess is without a foward escape hatch it would be dangerous for the engineer to climb out of the loco on the side in the park avenue tunnel.  Thats a 4 track electrificied 3rd rail tunnel, so it would be possible to accidently hit the 3rd rail in a dark rush out of the cab.
It would be equally easy to hit the third rail as one tries to climb/fall out of that tiny hatch, especially with the big drop to the roadbed from that height.

Additionally I'm not sure why having a forward escape should be more important for MN than it is for Amtrak.

However the simple reality is that MN tries to avoid running any diesel motors in GCT to avoid the accompanying fumes.

engine999 said:
I would only think these units will be on shoreline east, and possible future use on the planned commuter rail on the springfield line.  The FL9's are beccomming older, and with upcomming winters I dont think CDOT wants to take any extra risks.
The units will most likely also see service on the Danbury & Waterbury branches, as only a few rush hour trains from those branches run through to GCT. The rest of the day and on weekends, those branches see only shuttle service and are ideal for the P40's.
 
Well you know I had always wondered why they didn't have their number boards there, and couldn't figure out what that was, but it makes sense.
 
Alan, I believe there is some sort of rope ladder for the p32-acdm's that folds out with the hatch. Ill try to see if I can fin a picture of it somewhere online.
 
engine999 said:
Alan, I believe there is some sort of rope ladder for the p32-acdm's that folds out with the hatch.  Ill try to see if I can fin a picture of it somewhere online.
I'm sure that there is a rope ladder. That's not my point.

You're in a dark tunnel, your engine is on fire, and a rope ladder sways. Plus even a highly trained professional is still going to be at least a little bit panicked when faced with a fire. Those conditions make it very easy to fall off that rope ladder or to stumble as you set foot onto the roadbed.

Frankly, I'd rather climb out of the engine through the normal door on the side with no third rail and be as far away from that rail as possible.
 
And now seeing that picture, I'm even more inclined to want to exit via which ever normal door is not over the third rail. Consider that the ladder ends at the height of the guys standing on the ground. That's a big drop down to the roadbed. :blink:

One misstep when you hit the roadbed and zap. :eek:
 
I agree, but what happens if there is a thirdrail on either side of the loco. If your on the midle tracks that could be a possibility.
 
Ecept for short overlaps, there is never a third rail on both sides of the loco on that same track. As for the other tracks, you are seperated by walls from them.
 
How about something like the thick rubber garments that firefighters wear - or hip-waders, plus a coat and gloves, or some such. Wouldn't putting on a suit like that protect you pretty much even if you stepped on the electrified rail? If you can't provide protection from contacting it, provide protection that immunizes you from injury if there is cotact. Isn't there somewhere in the engine that you could put a small cabinet or box with two sets of that?
 
And maybe add automatic cutouts at both ends of the tunnel, with a radio receiver, and decoder, that you can trigger from a battery-backed-up transmitter in the engine cab, that would cut the entire tunnel, plus a hundred feet or so, from the power grid, and automatically de-energize the power rail in the tunnel. Surely that would be do-able.
 
The two outside tracks in park avenue are single track tunnels without walkways, its physicaly imposible to get out the sides during a fire in engineroom or near fuel tank.

The Escape hatch is 26" by 26" and even a big guy like me can get out comfortably.

There is a four step metal ladder with a rope to hold onto.

The hatch is all part of old crew agreements were nose egress is required.

On old NYC and NYNH electrics there was the pony truck and front door, on F-units and EP-5 there was the nose door.

Even the Amtrak Turbo's were restricted to track 1 and 2 only due to close clearances in the outside tunnels.
 
Update on the Leasing Situation. According to OTOL here's how the lease units are being broken up:

TO MNRR 833, 834, 836, 838, 840, 841

TO SLE 842, 843

So with the exception of the 835 and 832 all of the former Auto Train power is now on lease. I'll be interested to see if the units are retaining their Amtrak paint and running numbers. In some cases lease units are allowed to be repainted and renumbered as the Sounder units were with VRE.
 
I dont think they reapint the Sounder equipment, I think they just put patches over the areas where it said sounder.

Does anyone know how long the lease will be? Also were any more p40's put into service from storage on the auto train?
 
No, Auto Train now uses regular Intercity Power like any other long distance train. They do tend to use NOL based power since NOL is their link to the rest of the system via Sunset Ltd.
 
Someone e-mailed me tonight saying that one of the Hiawatha trainsets had engines 80 and 834. I haven't been able to see it myself, so I can't personally verify that a P40 was on it. However, his description of AMTK80 indicated that the engine is in just as pathetic condition as my photo in February would indicate.
 
True. 834 is a P40DC.

My fingers sometimes type faster than my brain works.

The P40s are special to me too, I suppose. I got to walk one cloudy weekend day on the shop floor at GE Erie as they were being built. IIRC, I explored #800, 801, and 802.

The rest really weren't built enough to go through. Those three had the cabs built, but I seem to remember much of the electrical gear was still being installed.
 
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