Is a coast to coast train feasible?

[dogbert617]

Can Superliners be used on the LSL? If not, you would have to change the corresponding western train to Viewliner. Hopefully the new Viewliners can change all differences in LD trains.

Superliner cannot be used on the LSL, at least not east/south of ALB. And cannot serve high level platforms at SYR and ALB (and coming at ROC). So really not the best idea east of BUF.

What do you mean about Viewliners changing differences?

Interesting, I always thought Superliners could theoretically be used at least to Albany-Rensselaer. So the platforms are elevated at Albany, Syracuse, and Rochester, but not Buffalo? I got the impression there weren't any issues that'd prevent Superliners to be used east to Albany, but what do I know?

And is Capitol Limited the only Superliner train, in the eastern half of the country past Chicago? I know the Michigan trains occasionally use Superliner cars during winter months, for whatever reason. Wish I could remember why that was.

I am assuming this New York to Los Angeles never even left the planning stage, does anyone have any more details? New York to Los Angeles in 60 hours?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPcap/2000-02/28/001r-022800-idx.html

Speaking of this article, I found this within that linked article:

"The other is to run sections of two New York-to-Florida trains down the Florida East Coast Railway through St. Augustine, Daytona Beach and Melbourne.

The Florida East Coast route was the prime route to Miami until the railroad owned by legendary Florida entrepreneur Ed Ball cut the size of train crews and unions went on strike Jan. 23, 1963. Someone began blowing up track under management-operated trains in 1964. President Lyndon B. Johnson called in the FBI after flying over two sabotaged trains on his way to a speech in Miami Beach, effectively breaking the strike. During the strike passenger trains were rerouted through central Florida and never returned to the coastal route."

Wow, so this really is the reason why both Silver trains run through lightly populated areas like Okeechobee, Sebring, and Winter Haven, instead of coastal areas north of Palm Beach/West Palm Beach like Melbourne and Fort Pierce? Granted the central FL route does allow Amtrak to serve Orlando(2 trains) and Tampa(1 train), so I can see why Amtrak might prefer that.

 

[Eric S]

Can Superliners be used on the LSL? If not, you would have to change the corresponding western train to Viewliner. Hopefully the new Viewliners can change all differences in LD trains.

Superliner cannot be used on the LSL, at least not east/south of ALB. And cannot serve high level platforms at SYR and ALB (and coming at ROC). So really not the best idea east of BUF.

What do you mean about Viewliners changing differences?

Interesting, I always thought Superliners could theoretically be used at least to Albany-Rensselaer. So the platforms are elevated at Albany, Syracuse, and Rochester, but not Buffalo? I got the impression there weren't any issues that'd prevent Superliners to be used east to Albany, but what do I know?

And is Capitol Limited the only Superliner train, in the eastern half of the country past Chicago? I know the Michigan trains occasionally use Superliner cars during winter months, for whatever reason. Wish I could remember why that was.

There are high level platforms at ALB and SYR and it's my understanding that the new ROC station will also include a high level platform.

And the Auto Train also uses Superliners.

 

[Bob Dylan]

And the Cardinal used to run Superliners when it ran only between Chicago and Washington.

 

[neroden]

There are high level platforms at ALB and SYR and it's my understanding that the new ROC station will also include a high level platform.

Yes. The new Schenectedy station will also have high-level platforms. And the recently-opened Niagara Falls station has high-level platforms.
A summary of the Empire Corridor platform situation:

NY Penn (and GCT): high level

Yonkers: high level

Croton-Harmon: high level

Poughkeepsie: high level

Rhinecliff: low level

Hudson: track level, below low level (and a mess, with boarding on only one side, branch tracks which need to be moved and a grade crossing)

Albany-Rensselaer: high level

Schenectady: currently low level, high level under construction

Amsterdam: low level, only one platform

Utica: low level

Rome: low level

Syracuse: high level

Rochester: currently low level, high level under construction

Buffalo-Depew: low level

Buffalo-Exchange: low level

Niagara Falls NY: high level

(The Canadian stations on the Maple Leaf are all low level including Toronto. The LSL stations from Erie west are all low-level.)

The low level stations will all get converted to high level eventually. The prognosis on the ones not under construction:

Rhinecliff: this is Amtrak's legal responsibility, which it has been ducking

Hudson: this is Amtrak's legal responsibility, which it has been ducking

Amsterdam: the station probably needs to be relocated with passenger sidings built (an outline proposal has been made), but nobody seems to be paying much attention

Utica: several proposals have been made, trying to figure out what would get the criminal operation at CSX to cooperate

Rome: repeated proposals to close the station, so it'll probably stay as it is for a long time

Buffalo-Depew: will almost certainly be closed and relocated, but nobody seems willing to commit to a location; the mayor made the unfortunate decision not to replace Depew in the near term

Buffalo-Exchange: current proposals involve rebuilding this with high level platforms, but we'll see; the mayor made the unfortunate decision to replace Exchange without replacing Depew, and I kind of expect the project will die and have to go through another round of discussion

 

[railiner]

Depew will be closed and relocated? Sure would be nice if they could return to a restored Central Terminal someday......

 

[Bob Dylan]

Depew will be closed and relocated? Sure would be nice if they could return to a restored Central Terminal someday......

This!

 

[zephyr17]

Can Superliners be used on the LSL? If not, you would have to change the corresponding western train to Viewliner. Hopefully the new Viewliners can change all differences in LD trains.

Superliner cannot be used on the LSL, at least not east/south of ALB. And cannot serve high level platforms at SYR and ALB (and coming at ROC). So really not the best idea east of BUF.

What do you mean about Viewliners changing differences?

Interesting, I always thought Superliners could theoretically be used at least to Albany-Rensselaer. So the platforms are elevated at Albany, Syracuse, and Rochester, but not Buffalo? I got the impression there weren't any issues that'd prevent Superliners to be used east to Albany, but what do I know?

And is Capitol Limited the only Superliner train, in the eastern half of the country past Chicago? I know the Michigan trains occasionally use Superliner cars during winter months, for whatever reason. Wish I could remember why that was.

I am assuming this New York to Los Angeles never even left the planning stage, does anyone have any more details? New York to Los Angeles in 60 hours?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPcap/2000-02/28/001r-022800-idx.html

Speaking of this article, I found this within that linked article:

"The other is to run sections of two New York-to-Florida trains down the Florida East Coast Railway through St. Augustine, Daytona Beach and Melbourne.

The Florida East Coast route was the prime route to Miami until the railroad owned by legendary Florida entrepreneur Ed Ball cut the size of train crews and unions went on strike Jan. 23, 1963. Someone began blowing up track under management-operated trains in 1964. President Lyndon B. Johnson called in the FBI after flying over two sabotaged trains on his way to a speech in Miami Beach, effectively breaking the strike. During the strike passenger trains were rerouted through central Florida and never returned to the coastal route."

Wow, so this really is the reason why both Silver trains run through lightly populated areas like Okeechobee, Sebring, and Winter Haven, instead of coastal areas north of Palm Beach/West Palm Beach like Melbourne and Fort Pierce? Granted the central FL route does allow Amtrak to serve Orlando(2 trains) and Tampa(1 train), so I can see why Amtrak might prefer that.

Yes. Because FEC was out of the passenger business by the time Amtrak was formed, FEC had no incentive to join it, so it didn't and the FEC route was not available to Amtrak.

 

[jis]

There has been an ongoing on again off again activity to get Amtrak to run at least one train on the FEC. It requires a bit of track construction around West Palm Beach and restoration/ building of a bunch of stations for which the relevant cities/ incorporated areas are willing to pitch in. So maybe it will happen some day.

Irrespective of that apparently Brightline between JAX and Miami Central looks very likely to happen.

 

[west point]

There is a new problem with Amtrak service using the Brightline stations. Brightline platforms are high level. To prevent having to have gauntlet tracks at stations for plate "H" freight trains the Brightline cars all have an extendable platform built into the vestibules of the cars. These platforms extend out then lower to the station platforms. This feature will require Amtrak to have portable platforms for each vestibule stored at the station. A cost for sure and the need for a secure container to store them. Then the possible training of crews of how to use them ? Do able yes but ? ?

 

[jis]

There is a new problem with Amtrak service using the Brightline stations. Brightline platforms are high level. To prevent having to have gauntlet tracks at stations for plate "H" freight trains the Brightline cars all have an extendable platform built into the vestibules of the cars. These platforms extend out then lower to the station platforms. This feature will require Amtrak to have portable platforms for each vestibule stored at the station. A cost for sure and the need for a secure container to store them. Then the possible training of crews of how to use them ? Do able yes but ? ?

Your understanding I believe is incorrect based on a conversation I had with Rusty (I forget his last name) who is the Director of Public Relations or some such at AAF. He usually comes to our FRPC meetings and also to FECRS meetings to give updates on Brightline.
There are freight bypass tracks at each Brightline station, except Miami Central where there is chance of a freight ever making it there. The platforms are standard height. What Brightline has is Bridge Plates built into the cars to aid loading of wheelchairs and such. People who are able to walk do not need those, but their presence increases safety. Amtrak trains will have no problem platforming at Brightline platforms, like they don't at their own platforms.

 

[Eric S]

Irrespective of that apparently Brightline between JAX and Miami Central looks very likely to happen.

Is this *new* news, so to speak? An update to some of the speculation about what *might* happen after Orlando?

 

[jis]

They have mentioned both Tampa and Jax. Nothing beyond that. The only thing on which actual preliminary planning is going on at present beyond Orlando is a station in Brevard County. Nothing else that I know of.

 

[neroden]

Depew will be closed and relocated? Sure would be nice if they could return to a restored Central Terminal someday......

Yeah, CSX doesn't like having it in the freight yard, and neither does anybody else.

It's very unlikely to be upgraded in place. When it's upgraded it will be moved.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

There is another active thread about spending several consecutive days/nights on a train so I thought about the idea of a coast to coast train again. Most agree it isn't feasible due to the duration of the train and the chance of delays growing the longer of the train.

The current longest train is the Texas Eagle which on CHI-LAX days runs 2728 miles and roughly 2 1/2 days (1:45pm CT to 5:35am PT three days later) but that is combined with the Sunset Limited and isn't a daily train. The next longest train is the California Zephyr which runs 2438 miles and 52 hr, 10 min (2pm CT to 4:10pm PT two days later).

Time wise if you added the LSL or CZ to the SWC you would get either 3:40pm or 4:05pm to 8:15am three days later which time wise is comparable to the TE between CHI and LAX but distance wise it would be either 3045 miles (780+2265) or 3224 miles (959+2265). They certainly tried the idea of SWC+CL once and with too few trains it probably led to more headaches. But if there were ever more CHI-NEC trains and CHI-California trains they really should consider the idea of one coast to coast. You know I'm going to push for a "Philly" train and a "Desert Wind/Vegas" train. Perhaps they should be the two that are linked and the LSL, CL, SWC, and CZ can be kept separate.

At the very least if not a coast to coast train the Philly train, could be scheduled "off schedule" meaning passengers can leave Chicago eastbound in the morning or early afternoon rather than at night and reach Ohio before midnight so passengers who come in late from California (or from Texas) aren't stranded all day in Chicago until the next night but can leave Chicago earlier and get back to Ohio and/or the NEC if they miss their connections. It also would give Ohio daytime service. In reality, the Cardinal should be an "Ohio" train as it would separate it from the LSL/CL as an option and better serve CIN/IND (the HS can then be the transfer train from the West Coast).

But if delays are really the issue preventing most of you from signing off on a coast to coast train then hopefully the technology will come and then in 20-30 years trains from NYP-LAX will take the time it takes from CHI-LAX now and will not have the delay issues they have now. Then maybe I can have a one seat ride from PHL-LAX or at least from PHL-CHI. By then (assuming I'm still alive) I will be at or near retirement age and will have more time to travel the country. It will be sad if the farthest west PHL residents can travel daily 20-30 years from now is PGH (well I guess NOL still counts down south).

By the way, what's the link for checking on missed connections? I'm worried about a missed connection soon and if you really don't want me to complain even more about the lack of one seat rides pray I don't miss a connection in the upcoming weeks!

 

[railiner]

Just because a train is a "thru" train.....there is no absolute guarantee that you will have a "one seat ride", if the train is drastically delayed,. At some point Operations will determine that it would be better to "annul" the train, reaccommodate the thru passenger's, and "set in" an on time train....

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

Not related to Amtrak but way a long time ago I wanted to go to Orlando for a bowl game. It was last minute since I didn't know Penn State was going to the Citrus Bowl (my graduate school). At that time the train fare was so expensive I decided to take the train to Orlando instead. I was supposed to be on a one seat ride from Orlando to Washington/Philadelphia (I forget) but the bus driver announced somewhere (I think it was Fayetteville, NC) that the bus was "cut" so they kicked us off the bus and we had to wait in the bus station in the middle of the night for the next northbound bus. So I had a similar situation happen in Greyhound world and in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere.

 

[west point]

Let us take an aside. Do any of you want to get on an airplane that has not been cleaned and serviced for 3 - 1/2 day ? Much less 2 days ? Oh that right just ride Aeroflot !

 

[PRR 60]

I've removed a whole bunch of posts that had nothing to do with a cross country train and became just an immature back and forth. Some other posts that were related to those posts were also removed. I'm also closing this topic as asked and answered.