How many cars are in mothballs? Vollenteer help to restore them?

[RobertF]

So, how many cars does Amtrak have in mothballs that are restorable? Maybe they should take advantage of those of us who are Amtrak fans and get us to volunteer to help restore them to reduce costs. We would still need money for parts/etc, but we could cut the restore costs a great deal by volunteering. Perhaps they could give us 2 free tickets with sleepers in return or something.

There must be a novel way that would lead to a reduction in the equipment shortage.... Maybe an Amtrak Telethon!

 

[Guest]

..novel thought.

Delta airline employees did something along these lines years ago. Google it if it interests you.

 

[socalsteve]

Ooooooh, I can see the picket lines forming right now outside the Beech Grove shops. The union folks there would not look kindly on people taking their jobs, I'm afraid.

 

[had8ley]

Now that's where you put on your thinking cap. You buy, for a very nominal sum, a car that Amtrak deems it cannot afford the time or expense to re-build at the present time. You have it delivered to wherever you can assemble the most volunteers. You buy the parts from Amtrak at some really heavily discounted price. Then you restore the car to FRA specs and offer it back to Amtrak for what you have in it for parts and purchase price. . I don't think the unions could fuss about free enterprise. And who knows, they might even name it the "AU Special."

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I can't think of a way to do this that wouldn't have the unions seeing red and blowing smoke out of their ears.

 

[RailFanLNK]

I'm a union guy so I understand the sentiment. What Robert F doesn't realize is that if you can't find me handy hopefully you can find me handsome. :lol: Give me a screwdriver or anything and I will absolutely ruin whatever I have been put in charge of. In my house, a screwdriver is a butter knife out of the kitchen drawer and a hammer is a shoe with a big heel on it. Brenda laughs cuz she has more tools in her house then I do in mine! :lol:

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

If it turned out that there were 50 cars worth fixing, and they'd cost an average of $5 million each to fix, that would be $250 million, which I think is .05% of what the US spends on its military each year. I suspect both the 50 and the $5 million are both overestimates. If this is worth doing at all, the taxpayers can probably afford to pay the union workers to do the work.

However, someone who is capable of managing a volunteer force to correctly do this work on 50 cars probably has the skills to manage projects that are not one-of-a-kind, and that manager could probably do a lot more to help society by working on a project that isn't one of a kind. The nature of the damage to each car is probably different from every other car, and the required work is probably different.

Thunder Below, the book by Eugene Fluckey, mentions that in the US shipyards during World War II, new construction went much more smoothly than repairs to damanged ships, because the workers had already constructed similar new ships before and so had already worked out the problems. And the book Lead On, by Rear Admiral Dave Oliver, Jr (which held my attention well enough Sunday evening after dinner that I choose to sleep through breakfast Monday morning on the eastbound Lake Shore Limited). mentions that the one of a kind submarines the US Navy has need to have above-average crews to deal with the unique challenges those submarines face. (That book is dated 1992, and I suspect the Navy has gotten rid of most of the one of a kind submarines by now as the submarine fleet has shrunk, but I think at least NR-1 is still around.)

But anyway, wouldn't it be better to have talented managers planning high speed track than restoring badly damaged 30 year old cars one at a time?

And if a private group is going to restore a car, I have to wonder if something that was built before Amtrak existed might be a better choice. For example, there's currently only one full-length dome car available for charter (or so the owners of such a car in Minnesota claim). Or maybe someone could rebuild some old dining cars; the Diner-Lite service on the Lake Shore Limited has not impressed me.

 

[AlanB]

But anyway, wouldn't it be better to have talented managers planning high speed track than restoring badly damaged 30 year old cars one at a time?

It'd be highly unlikely that someone talented enough to oversea the restoration and repair work of train cars would be qualified enough to oversea the designing of high speed track.

 

[AlanB]

If it turned out that there were 50 cars worth fixing, and they'd cost an average of $5 million each to fix, that would be $250 million, which I think is .05% of what the US spends on its military each year. I suspect both the 50 and the $5 million are both overestimates. If this is worth doing at all, the taxpayers can probably afford to pay the union workers to do the work.

Actually the 41 Amfleet I cars that were mothballed, it would cost far less than $5 M per car. IIRC, I think that I remember reading that they only needed about $300 K to $400 K to be returned to service. Mind you these cars are not damaged, they just need a major overhaul to pass FRA manadated inspections.

Some of these cars are indeed slated for that work in this fiscal year. In fact, they a scheduled for a Capstone overhaul and upon checking I see that one of these cars was released from Bear in January.

 

[RailFanLNK]

I think Kummant said once, "I don't understand the fury over the subsidy that Amtrak recieves...its equal to 1 cup of coffee for every American."

 

[RobertF]

Now that's where you put on your thinking cap. You buy, for a very nominal sum, a car that Amtrak deems it cannot afford the time or expense to re-build at the present time. You have it delivered to wherever you can assemble the most volunteers. You buy the parts from Amtrak at some really heavily discounted price. Then you restore the car to FRA specs and offer it back to Amtrak for what you have in it for parts and purchase price. . I don't think the unions could fuss about free enterprise. And who knows, they might even name it the "AU Special."

Wonder if we could get the unions involved somehow in a positive way. Call it a community project of sorts....

 

[Trogdor]

It sounds like a nice idea. However, there are rail museums that struggle to pull together enough volunteer time and money to restore even one or two railcars (and not necessarily into running condition either; just display condition). So, I'd be skeptical of any attempt to get a volunteer force together with the resources to refurbish a railcar to modern heavy-duty operating standards.

 

[Gord]

It sounds like a nice idea. However, there are rail museums that struggle to pull together enough volunteer time and money to restore even one or two railcars (and not necessarily into running condition either; just display condition). So, I'd be skeptical of any attempt to get a volunteer force together with the resources to refurbish a railcar to modern heavy-duty operating standards.

Let's not forget that you can't just have anyone doing the majority of repairs to these cars either. They have to meet stringent FRA and Amtrak standards. You need certified electricians, pipefitters, welders, carmen, HVAC mechanics, air brake specialists and so on to perform or supervise much of the required work.

I have 37 years in at an operating museum in Canada and I have a heck of a time getting volunteers of any kind, let alone essential skilled trades. A lot of the jobs are dirty, phyically difficult, require a high level of skill or are just plain boring so only those with an intense interest in rail and strong mechanical skills tend to stick around. Attracting younger volunteers to pass the skills on to is a HUGE problem for almost all volunteer based rail museums.

Gord

 

[Chessie Hokie]

I think Kummant said once, "I don't understand the fury over the subsidy that Amtrak recieves...its equal to 1 cup of coffee for every American."

Yeah, but if he was referring to a Starbucks El Supremo Grande Double-Shot Decaf Fat-free Mocha-Momma Latte with Cinamon Sticks and Peppermint Sprinkles then we would be talking serious money... :lol:

 

[George Harris]

But anyway, wouldn't it be better to have talented managers planning high speed track than restoring badly damaged 30 year old cars one at a time?

There has been enough of that done already. Time to start doing final designs and building.

Without going to a list, so I am sure I am missing a few, we already have thick reports, usually multiple thick reports on:

Trans Dominion Express - Virginia

Southeast High Speed Rail - Virginia, North Carolina, with extensions from there

Texas Triangel - in Texas, where else?

Austin-san Antonio - Texas again

3C in Ohio

Midwest High Speed - Chicago hub area

California High Speed

Gulf Coast High Speed - Houston, New Orleans, Mobile

Twin Cities Duluth - Minnesota

Boston to Montreal - New England

Paper is cheap. Concrete, steel, and moving dirt are not. But you gotta do it if you want to ride fast trains.

 

[had8ley]

It sounds like a nice idea. However, there are rail museums that struggle to pull together enough volunteer time and money to restore even one or two railcars (and not necessarily into running condition either; just display condition). So, I'd be skeptical of any attempt to get a volunteer force together with the resources to refurbish a railcar to modern heavy-duty operating standards.

Let's not forget that you can't just have anyone doing the majority of repairs to these cars either. They have to meet stringent FRA and Amtrak standards. You need certified electricians, pipefitters, welders, carmen, HVAC mechanics, air brake specialists and so on to perform or supervise much of the required work.

I have 37 years in at an operating museum in Canada and I have a heck of a time getting volunteers of any kind, let alone essential skilled trades. A lot of the jobs are dirty, phyically difficult, require a high level of skill or are just plain boring so only those with an intense interest in rail and strong mechanical skills tend to stick around. Attracting younger volunteers to pass the skills on to is a HUGE problem for almost all volunteer based rail museums.

Gord

Good point. We have an excess of capable people who would probably devote some of their time. I wouldn't want to tackle a steam engine but I think we could pull off a heritage car or two. Everyone in the gang has 30 plus year from carman to steam fireman. I've watched restorations sit for years on end to where the project is just abandoned for lack of helping hands. That's why I admire people like you.

 

[JxGx78]

England appears to have a relatively successful volunteer railroad. This is from the January issue of the Freeman. The story is interesting and well worth the read. Edit: I should have added that the idea of volunteers working to improve a railway (specifically Amtrak) might work.

In 21st-century England you don’t expect to find a fireman shoveling coal into a steam locomotive, but that’s what 59-year old Paul Rimmer does. During his shift on the North Yorkshire Moors Railway, he heaves two tons of coal from the tender of engine 45212 into its roaring firebox, a tougher job than almost any in modern Britain. If encountering a real live locomotive fireman is unusual, consider this second surprise: Paul is a volunteer, devoting one week a month to his backbreaking, fiery labors. He’s part of the modern British movement relying on philanthropy and volunteerism to save historic railroads.

and

Voluntarism, on the other hand, rests on the complex and rather subtle motives we might characterize as self-expression. These include idealism, generosity, sociability, and a sense of achievement. These motives are hard to define and measure, so we tend to discount them when thinking about social organization. We tend to be skeptical that an organization based on “mere” charity or enthusiasm or friendship could accomplish anything significant. But, as the volunteer railroads demonstrate, these impulses certainly can have important, socially useful effects.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

This is Amtrak forum and whatever people do across the pond is of no consequence for us.

 

[Guest]

"This is Amtrak forum and whatever people do across the pond is of no consequence for us"

I'm trying to refrain from giving an opinion on this remark but the essence is probably wrong. We, in this country, would like to see some of the qualities of the passenger trains from "across the pond"- in both directions.

 

[WhoozOn1st]

This is Amtrak forum and whatever people do across the pond is of no consequence for us.

Dude, tell me you're not serious. I think I can speak for most members and guests of this forum by saying that we're quite interested in, and we welcome, railroading views from everywhere.

 

[RobertF]

This is Amtrak forum and whatever people do across the pond is of no consequence for us.

I think what they do across the pond is of great consequence for us if it helps Amtrak be a better railroad.

If we could start a movement, returning say 1-2 cars a year to operational status, I think that would

have such huge payoffs. Imagine the press reporting on this large effort, imagine the potential

congressional response to such press and to the fact that the people they represent are banding

together to make a difference. Grass roots movements can be very powerful if they are managed

correctly. Powerful grass roots volunteer movements can overcome many obstacles... you just

need the right leader and a bunch of people who really care. So, here in this forum we have a bunch

of people who really care.... we just need a leader who will take on the challenge.

As for me... I'm an idea guy, I'm not a leader of this type.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

Even in Europe volunteers do not rebuilt revenue trains, only museum and private railway cars/engines.

If Amtrak were to try and circumvent Labor contract they would have a nation wide strike on their hands.

The rebuilding of cars and engines is done in house, only exseption being specialized wreck repair.

If you want more Amtrak service/cars, make a change in Washington, no funding no choo choo's