How do they do this

[Fireman_Steve]

I have a question, as a frequent traveler to Miami, how does the yard crew turn the trains at the station to get them pointed back north for the new trips? Is there a turntable of some kind that turn each car?

Another logistical question, how does the engineer know when to pull over to allow another commuter or freight train to pass them. Is that all done via light signals or radio?

Any info would be appreciated.

Steve

 

[AlanB]

Steve,

Trains are typically turned in one of two ways these days, but turntables are pretty rare these days and are mainly in train museums. The first and easiest way to turn a train is simply to have one track that loops around the yard in a half circle. That’s what they do up here in Sunnyside yard for all trains coming into or out of Penn Station NY. A train that terminates at Penn will continue through a tunnel into Queens. As it exits the tunnel, it’s taken off the main line running to Boston and proceeds to loop under the main line. As it completes the 180 degree turn on the other side of the main line, it’s now setup to run right into the yard. Once it's cleaned and refueled, it's now headed in the right direction to go back into Penn station for it's southbound run.

The second way to turn a train is to use what’s called a “Y” track. In reality it’s really more like a triangle with a track running off each point of the triangle. So a train would enter the Y from the bottom and then run up the left side of the Y. It would then continue out the track from the point on the left side of the triangle. Once he clears the switch, he throws the train into reverse and back up across the top of the Y and out the other side. The switch on the right side is then thrown so the train can run down the right side of the Y and back out the bottom. You’ve now successfully turned the train.

As for passing and the like, the engineer doesn’t really know when or where to pull over for another train. All of that is handled from a central dispatching office. Someone there decides which train is going into the siding and then tells the computer to set the switches and the signals accordingly. The engineer just stops when the signal tells him to and goes when it tells him to. At least that’s what we hope for, when he doesn’t then we have a problem. The engineer can tell from the signal if he’s the lucky one who gets to stay on the mainline, or if he’s going into the siding.

 

[Viewliner]

I know Miami Joe has mentioned that Miami uses the "Y" track in this case. Also do they back in the train to NY Penn from Sunnyside when a train like the Silver Meteor Turns to the Lake Shore Limited?

 

[Amfleet]

First, I believe they actually loop the trains in Miami because I remember Joe metioning that during that process they will do a run through the "car" wash. However, I could be wrong. Second, when a northbound Silver Meteor comes in and turns into the Lake Shore Limited (if it does???) it will still need to be turned since the tunells that lead out towards Albany are actually south of Penn Station.

 

[Viewliner]

Oops, My mistake, I'm not familiar to the Lake Shore Limited, because usually the only Amtrak Trains I take are the Silver Service (Primarily Silver Meteor) out of Newark. The only time I take a train to/from New York is on NJ Transit.

 

[Amfleet]

The next time you come into Penn on NJ Transit sit on the left side going northbound or right side going southbound and I believe you can see where the lines split.

 

[Superliner Diner]

To Amfleet & Viewliner,

The tracks that lead to the Empire Connection actually run south of the tracks that lead into the North River tunnels for the Northeast Corridor (& NJ Transit) trains. The Empire Connection runs down into its own tunnel, curving under the North River tunnels to run northbound parallel to the Hudson on the west side of Manhattan. That is why you may have noticed that Empire Service trains always use Tracks 5-6-7-8, while Amtrak trains on the NEC primarily use 9 through 15 (although they can use 5,6,7, or 8 if they have to).

So Amfleet, you got your sides of the train backwards!

A set of tracks you may have seen north of the NEC tracks into the tunnel is a lead to the LIRR yard, primarily where LIRR trains are stored during the weekdays between rush hours. LIRR uses Tracks 13 and above at Penn Station.

 

[Amfleet]

So the tunnels that lead out to Albany are north of Penn Station before the North River Tunnels right? I know Alan went through this on the old forum, but those posts no longer exist.

 

[Viewliner]

Ok so I face right inbound and left outbound?

Also, which train uses the Turboliner II normally? I'm asking for picture purposes.

 

[Amfleet]

All right I'm lost??????

 

[AlanB]

Amfleet is right, the LSL does go out the west side of Penn or towards NJ before it turns to run up the west side of Manhattan. However, if they ever where going to take a Silver Service train for the LSL, they would still have to turn the train in Sunnyside no matter what. Forget about the fact that all the seat would be backwards.

The train must go to Sunnyside to be cleaned and reprovisioned. Additionally and most importantly it must go to Sunnyside because a Silver Service train would have an electric motor on the head. If the train went right out of Penn without changing to a P32 AC-DM, if would die about 50 feet out of the station.

 

[AlanB]

So the tunnels that lead out to Albany are north of Penn Station before the North River Tunnels right? I know Alan went through this on the old forum, but those posts no longer exist.

No the tunnels that lead to the westside and Albany are on the southside of the Hudson tunnels.

So if you were riding into Penn on a NJT train you would need to sit on the right side of the train's forward motion in order to see the Empire tunnels. However, frequently you will find that NJT has a train parked on a track that sits between the Hudson tunnels and the Empire Tunnels which will block your view.

 

[Viewliner]

So the tunnels that lead out to Albany are north of Penn Station before the North River Tunnels right? I know Alan went through this on the old forum, but those posts no longer exist.

No the tunnels that lead to the westside and Albany are on the southside of the Hudson tunnels.

So if you were riding into Penn on a NJT train you would need to sit on the right side of the train's forward motion in order to see the Empire tunnels. However, frequently you will find that NJT has a train parked on a track that sits between the Hudson tunnels and the Empire Tunnels which will block your view.

I know what you mean.

 

[Superliner Diner]

So the tunnels that lead out to Albany are north of Penn Station before the North River Tunnels right?

You're confusing yourself, Amfleet. Trains only run in an east-west direction at Penn Station. No trains run north-south. The tracks that lead to Albany are part of the interlockings on the west side of the station, the same side that NJT and Washington-bound Amtrak trains depart through. Albany-bound trains would take a track that is to the LEFT of the NEC tracks, and then, still facing WEST towards the Hudson River, they go into a tunnel and almost immediately curve to the right, or NORTH, so that they run under the NEC tunnel and come out parallel to the river.

Ok so I face right inbound and left outbound?

Yes, Viewliner, that would be correct.

Also, which train uses the Turboliner II normally? I'm asking for picture purposes.

The regular scheme, when the RTL-II Turboliner is not sick (and thus pulled from service) is as follows: On Mondays through Thursdays it runs south from Albany as Train 256 and it returns as 259 New York to Albany. On Fridays it is a little different. Since 259 is replaced by 289, and runs onward to Syracuse, regular Amfleet equipment is assigned to the train. Instead, the RTL-II runs northbound on Train 257. I am not sure about the southbound run on Fridays, whether if it comes down on 256 there is enough time to turn the trainset, or whether it's even necessary since the Turbo, like the Acela Express, has a power car at each end. If it does not run on Train 256, then it comes down on the train before it on Fridays.

 

[Viewliner]

Does it run on weekends?

 

[Amfleet]

You're confusing yourself, Amfleet.  Trains only run in an east-west direction at Penn Station. No trains run north-south. The tracks that lead to Albany are part of the interlockings on the west side of the station, the same side that NJT and Washington-bound Amtrak trains depart through. Albany-bound trains would take a track that is to the LEFT of the NEC tracks, and then, still facing WEST towards the Hudson River, they go into a tunnel and almost immediately curve to the right, or NORTH, so that they run under the NEC tunnel and come out parallel to the river.

Well since you loose all sense of direction when under a big city I just assunmeb all the tracks and platforms ran north and south. But I was semi right before. :blink:

 

[Superliner Diner]

Does it run on weekends?

Yes, it has, although it is not regularly assigned to a particular train.

A couple of years ago I happened to get it by chance when I rode 251 on a Saturday morning from Penn Station to Croton Harmon. I figured that was odd since it would have been used as 257 the night before (remember that would have been a Friday night).

Another time I saw it on a weekend was last summer, the trainset was being used as the Saratogian, the weekend race special that goes from Penn Station to Saratoga Springs. I happened to be coming back from Port Kent (really Burlington, VT) on the Adirondack, and was pleasantly surprised to see the RTL-II Turbo sitting on a siding at the Saratoga Springs station.

 

[Viewliner]

Ok, so I'll have to guess, and hope because It will most likely be a weekend that I take my pictures. Thanks for the Help.

 

[Superliner Diner]

Get your RTL-II photos soon, Viewliner, if that is what you are interested in, because the first RTL-III should be in service soon, followed by the second RTL-III by the end of this year. When that happens, the RTL-II, which is Turbo trainset #7, will be taken out of service and it will receive the same overhauls that the other sets are getting, eventually turning it into an RTL-III as well.

And how did we get to this from turning trains in Miami anyhow? :blink:

 

[Bobby S.]

In response to Steve's original question.... Miami does have a loop... In fact the loop encircles the entire station and parking lot. Trains pull into station, back out, loop track around, then backs into station facing north again! Too bad the station is where it is though...

Bobby S.

 

[Superliner Diner]

Too bad the station is where it is though...

Bobby,

I agree it's not in the best of neighborhoods. The station is not even technically in Miami -- it's in Hialeah. And while a couple of bus routes loop into the station (one for downtown Miami and one for Miami Beach), it's far from any other rail transportation. Although Amtrak and TriRail share tracks, and most stations where they both stop, they don't do so here. Amtrak has its station on a siding off the main, as part of its shops complex. TriRail's closest station is the TriRail/MetroRail transfer station. It's roughly 1/2 mile away, too far to walk if you're new to the area, come in after dark, or are carrying luggage. When I took Amtrak into "Miami" a few years ago, a fellow railfan met my train and drove me to the TriRail/MetroRail transfer station, out of concern for my safety.

 

[cbaker]

Let us not forget -- some Amtrak trains are still "broken up" and re-assembled for the return trip. A classic example of this is the Auto Train at Sanford, FL. When 52 arrives in Sanford the train is split into 2 sections for the passenger cars and about 6 cuts of auto carriers. After boarding but prior to departure, the 2 sections of passenger cars are re-assembled moved out onto the mainline, then the auto carriers are attached. Quite a spectacle if you ask me!

 

[Miami Joe]

First day back and really busy. :angry:

Miami does use a loop.

Second, while the engineer is directed by signals, he is also in constant radio contact with with CSX or whoever is providing track control. They are usually alerted by radio when it's necessary to go in a siding. They also have QualComm computer screens for sending and receiving messages.

B)

 

[Chatter163]

>>I agree it's not in the best of neighborhoods. The station is not even technically in Miami -- it's in Hialeah.<<

Actually, if one is being technical, it's not even in Hialeah, though the western part of the yard is. Hialeah's city line runs right down next to the station, parallel to the platform. As soon as one crosses the track, on is in (or out) of Hialeh. That is why the station's address is on N.W. 37 Court, which uses the countywide numbering system, rather than Hialeah's own numbering system. But when one looks across the street, there are Hialeah numbers.

 

[Superliner Diner]

OK, so if it's not in Miami, and not technically in Hialeah, then where is it?