How can they leave early?

Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
10
Location
Tucson,AZ
I am curious to know how Amtrak can leave a station early? I checked the website today and yesturday on train #5 and #6 and it says it leaves as much as 48 min early from Sacramento. Anyone know why they do this and would it not mess up someone trying to catch the train?
 
Where did you see the 48 minutes note?

#5 does not pick up passengers from SAC, only drops off, so there's no reason to wait. Eastbound #6 DOES stop for boarding, and would never leave early. Check it out in the timetable.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Train #8 can leave early at Milwaukee. I'm not sure that #8 doesn't pick up passengers at MKE but if anyone misses it they'll be put on a commuter to Chicago. Heck sometimes they'll even pass #8 and beat it to Chicago.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I am curious to know how Amtrak can leave a station early? I checked the website today and yesturday on train #5 and #6 and it says it leaves as much as 48 min early from Sacramento. Anyone know why they do this and would it not mess up someone trying to catch the train?
It would not leave early if there was a chance of leaving somebody behind.

However, look at the time table. It shows a "D" at Sacramento, Davis and Martinez with an explanation that it stops only to discharge passengers. not to receive.

Thus, with three stations in a row being consistent, it can leave any of them as early as operating conditions permit since there is nobody to board.

Same for the Empire Builder between Milwaukee and Glenview en route to Chicago.
 
If the schedule shows a D at the station, it is a stop for discharging passengers only. No passengers may board THAT train at THAT station, so there is no need to sit there waiting for someone to board. Thus, the train can depart from that station early. If there is no D indicated, the train must wait for the scheduled departure time!
 
I am curious to know how Amtrak can leave a station early? I checked the website today and yesturday on train #5 and #6 and it says it leaves as much as 48 min early from Sacramento. Anyone know why they do this and would it not mess up someone trying to catch the train?
It would not leave early if there was a chance of leaving somebody behind.

However, look at the time table. It shows a "D" at Sacramento, Davis and Martinez with an explanation that it stops only to discharge passengers. not to receive.

Thus, with three stations in a row being consistent, it can leave any of them as early as operating conditions permit since there is nobody to board.

Same for the Empire Builder between Milwaukee and Glenview en route to Chicago.
That "D" is for #5 only, I believe.
 
Yes, the "D" per the timetable is only for the westbound train nearing its final destination. That would make no sense on number six headed for Chicago, a long way off.

I think the "discharge only" stipulation has been covered well.

What has not been answered, I do not think, is where does the "48 minutes' come from. That comes from padding.

Padding is extra time built into the schedule after smaller towns before arriving at larger cities. To help keep trains more on time at the larger stations.

So, look at the timetable. You will see the westbound train is given one hour and 16 minutes from Roseville to Sacramento. But eastbound, moving away from the large city of Sacramento, it is given only 26 minutes. So the 48 minutes early it can leave is based on padding from Roseville into Sacramento.

And as to the westbound Empire Builder it's stops at Glenview and Milwukee are to receive only so no chance of leaving early from them with its whole trip ahead of it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
AHHH..Yes, Thanks guys. I should have thought of that before I posted. I know that there are stations that they do not stop at unless they have pax to pickup or drop off. I am thinking Benson,AZ (not far from me) is like that. Now it all makes sense!
 
AHHH..Yes, Thanks guys. I should have thought of that before I posted. I know that there are stations that they do not stop at unless they have pax to pickup or drop off. I am thinking Benson,AZ (not far from me) is like that. Now it all makes sense!
Well, no, not exactly. Again, look at the timetable. It shows some kind of squiggly mark which shows Benson as being what is called a "flag stop". That is a time honoured railroad term which means a train stops only if somebody is getting on or off. But flag stops, too, are at a definate time, it has no relationship to leaving early. Benson is not nearly close enough to Los Angeles to be a" discharge only" stop.

But on that same train, the Sunset Limited,(again look at the timetable) you will see "D" at Ontario and at Pomona. Those stops, rigtht next to each other consistently in a row together are stops where the westbound train can leave early.
 
I am curious to know how Amtrak can leave a station early? I checked the website today and yesturday on train #5 and #6 and it says it leaves as much as 48 min early from Sacramento. Anyone know why they do this and would it not mess up someone trying to catch the train?
It would not leave early if there was a chance of leaving somebody behind.

However, look at the time table. It shows a "D" at Sacramento, Davis and Martinez with an explanation that it stops only to discharge passengers. not to receive.

Thus, with three stations in a row being consistent, it can leave any of them as early as operating conditions permit since there is nobody to board.

Same for the Empire Builder between Milwaukee and Glenview en route to Chicago.
I understand the "D" since the train is only discharging passengers. What about the few station stops that are designated with "L"? I've seen this mostly on the NE corridor. For example, #67 has an "L" stop at New Carollton at 6:45AM and all northbound Acela Express trains have an "L" at Providence, RI. The trains probably only leave a few minutes early, but it must be wise to not cut it too close to the scheduled departure time since those trains *do* pick up passengers, correct?
 
I am curious to know how Amtrak can leave a station early? I checked the website today and yesturday on train #5 and #6 and it says it leaves as much as 48 min early from Sacramento. Anyone know why they do this and would it not mess up someone trying to catch the train?
This is just a theory; with the recent time change and a newly built website, is it possible that if a train was actually running 15 minutes late that it could be calculated and displayed as being 45 minutes early? This is just a thought, but worse glitches have existed with computer systems.
 
I understand the "D" since the train is only discharging passengers. What about the few station stops that are designated with "L"? I've seen this mostly on the NE corridor. For example, #67 has an "L" stop at New Carollton at 6:45AM and all northbound Acela Express trains have an "L" at Providence, RI. The trains probably only leave a few minutes early, but it must be wise to not cut it too close to the scheduled departure time since those trains *do* pick up passengers, correct?
As I understand it, at stops with an L (like PVD), the train can depart early - but not more than a short time before the time shown. (I think it is something like 5 minutes before.)
 
Train #8 can leave early at Milwaukee. I'm not sure that #8 doesn't pick up passengers at MKE but if anyone misses it they'll be put on a commuter to Chicago. Heck sometimes they'll even pass #8 and beat it to Chicago.
Train 8 does not receive passengers in Milwaukee or Glenview (nor does 7 discharge passengers at those stops).

The only way a Hiawatha would pass train 8 en-route to Chicago is if something happened to #8 causing it to be unable to move. Otherwise, the Hiawatha would actually lose a bit of time stopping at the Airport and Sturtevant, whereas 8's only other stop is Glenview, and that only takes 2-3 minutes.
 
As I understand it, at stops with an L (like PVD), the train can depart early - but not more than a short time before the time shown. (I think it is something like 5 minutes before.)
Acela that I was on last week left PVD about 10 minutes early so perhaps it is 10 mins? Of course then it got stuck behind the MBTA train that was so heavy with AU Gathering participants that it was moving very slowly :lol:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm not quite sure just what happened, although I did hear reports of someone on the tracks down in the area of Ruggles, but we did indeed move rather slowly even stopping a few times for reasons that never were clear to me. You probably would have caught up to us anyhow, but that slow running made it very easy.
 
I understand the "D" since the train is only discharging passengers. What about the few station stops that are designated with "L"? I've seen this mostly on the NE corridor. For example, #67 has an "L" stop at New Carollton at 6:45AM and all northbound Acela Express trains have an "L" at Providence, RI. The trains probably only leave a few minutes early, but it must be wise to not cut it too close to the scheduled departure time since those trains *do* pick up passengers, correct?
As I understand it, at stops with an L (like PVD), the train can depart early - but not more than a short time before the time shown. (I think it is something like 5 minutes before.)
I can understand the 'D-discharge only' and the 'R-receive only'......but what is the purpose of the 'L-may leave up to 5 minutes early if all station work is done'?

For only a five minute gain, what's the point of not just listing a regular time?
 
Train #8 can leave early at Milwaukee. I'm not sure that #8 doesn't pick up passengers at MKE but if anyone misses it they'll be put on a commuter to Chicago. Heck sometimes they'll even pass #8 and beat it to Chicago.
Train 8 does not receive passengers in Milwaukee or Glenview (nor does 7 discharge passengers at those stops).

The only way a Hiawatha would pass train 8 en-route to Chicago is if something happened to #8 causing it to be unable to move. Otherwise, the Hiawatha would actually lose a bit of time stopping at the Airport and Sturtevant, whereas 8's only other stop is Glenview, and that only takes 2-3 minutes.
Does Metra go to MKE? Once we left a guy behind at MKE and he somehow beat us to Chicago. He had stepped off to smoke and didn't reboard. He caught another train and was on the platform to meet the rest of his party. I remember because they were freaking out a little bit that he'd been left behind. I can't recall though if #8 was delayed a bit at all.
 
Metra doesn't serve Milwaukee.

Other than the Empire Builder, the Hiawatha service is the only passenger rail service there. Under *normal* circumstances, there's no way a Hiawatha train would pass the Empire Builder heading into Chicago. There may have been some sort of exceptional circumstance that day, but train 8 follows the exact same routing as the eastbound Hiawathas, with fewer stops. Therefore, it should generally make better time.
 
AHHH..Yes, Thanks guys. I should have thought of that before I posted. I know that there are stations that they do not stop at unless they have pax to pickup or drop off. I am thinking Benson,AZ (not far from me) is like that. Now it all makes sense!
Well, no, not exactly. Again, look at the timetable. It shows some kind of squiggly mark which shows Benson as being what is called a "flag stop". That is a time honoured railroad term which means a train stops only if somebody is getting on or off. But flag stops, too, are at a definate time, it has no relationship to leaving early. Benson is not nearly close enough to Los Angeles to be a" discharge only" stop.

But on that same train, the Sunset Limited,(again look at the timetable) you will see "D" at Ontario and at Pomona. Those stops, rigtht next to each other consistently in a row together are stops where the westbound train can leave early.
Ok..yes, I see that in the timetable. Then, I have another question regarding "flag stops". As I understand them, if no one is planned on boarding and no one is planned on getting off the train at that stop; the train can go through the stop without actually stopping? So, it would just bypass Benson on that given day. But, what if someone buys a ticket say 20-30 min before the train gets there. You can buy on the website I assume at anytime and if I lived in a small town with flagstops, how is the conductor notified that someone bought a ticket 20 min ago to board at that stop? I might be standing at the station just to watch it go by. Given the poor time reporting of train status on the website, how can they expect to get an electonic message to that train from the website indicating a passenger is now awaitnig to board?
 
I understand the "D" since the train is only discharging passengers. What about the few station stops that are designated with "L"? I've seen this mostly on the NE corridor. For example, #67 has an "L" stop at New Carollton at 6:45AM and all northbound Acela Express trains have an "L" at Providence, RI. The trains probably only leave a few minutes early, but it must be wise to not cut it too close to the scheduled departure time since those trains *do* pick up passengers, correct?
As I understand it, at stops with an L (like PVD), the train can depart early - but not more than a short time before the time shown. (I think it is something like 5 minutes before.)
I can understand the 'D-discharge only' and the 'R-receive only'......but what is the purpose of the 'L-may leave up to 5 minutes early if all station work is done'?

For only a five minute gain, what's the point of not just listing a regular time?
In the case of 67 in WAS, it's only a 10 minute run into Washington where many people are ending their journey - in that case it's an arrival 5 minutes early. It also gives the crew 5 more minutes to complete the swap from electric to P42 for the continued run south. Since there is frequent MARC and Metro service from NCR into the city, there's never anyone to board there (unless I'm making a points run, then I have to get on and quickly track down a crew member to lift my ticket before arrival). Every time they're amazed that I bought a ticket for NRC-WAS, so I have the feeling that there are very, very few boardings there.
 
As I understand it, you can buy a ticket on the website up to a certain time before departure, and pick up the ticket it up at a staffed station (such as CHI or LAX) just prior to departure. If you board at an unstaffed station (such as Benson), the only choice if you book online is to have the ticket(s) mailed to you!

I rather doubt that they can mail it, and have you receive it 20 minutes prior to departure! :rolleyes:
 
Right now it's about 6 hours before #2 will reach Benson, but the web site is offering to sell me a ticket, with pickup "onboard from conductor". I would guess that shortly before they arrive at the flag stop, the conductor contacts Amtrak HQ and asks if they have anyone to pick up (if they're not stopping anyway to let someone off).

I've also seen it mentioned here that the engineer may slow down and see if anyone is standing on the platform, but I wouldn't count on it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Right now it's about 6 hours before #2 will reach Benson, but the web site is offering to sell me a ticket, with pickup "onboard from conductor". I would guess that shortly before they arrive at the flag stop, the conductor contacts Amtrak HQ and asks if they have anyone to pick up (if they're not stopping anyway to let someone off).
I've also seen it mentioned here that the engineer may slow down and see if anyone is standing on the platform, but I wouldn't count on it.

I am not sure the engineer would use a person at a station a reason to stop. Giving the fact so many people hang out there and railfans such as myself would be standing around. I guess as you stated above, the conductor must get notified prior to arrival. I am just curious as to how they do that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top