Heater on Amtrak trains - What's normal?

[Slayer Essence]

This weekend, I traveled on the Keystone #662 from PHL - NYP and the train was uncomfortably hot. The heat must have been on maximum and many passengers were openly complaining about the heat situation. Other riders who were on the train before PHL stated that the conductor said that the heat is only on or off, there is no in-between.

Returning home, on the Vermonter #57 however, it did feel like there was an in-between temp. Perhaps it was a tad on the cool side, but it was very comfortable.

What is normal for Amtrak? Does this depend on the individual car?

Thanks

 

[amamba]

Sometimes too hot, sometimes too cold. Dress in layers.

 

[Train2104]

Never been on LD, but from my experience, the temperature on a transit vehicle (be it a city bus, the subway, commuter rail, Greyhound, or the Regional) is almost always too hot in the winter, too cold in the summer.

 

[the_traveler]

As they say - "You can't please everyone!" Some may think it's too hot, but others on the same train may complain that it's too cold!

And the thermostat is not like at home. There is no 72° or 68° setting - only a number (like 1 to 5). The attendant or conductor had to guess. Also, don't forget that at every stop, the door is opened, so the 20° air coming in has to be heated too.

 

[me_little_me]

This weekend, I traveled on the Keystone #662 from PHL - NYP and the train was uncomfortably hot. The heat must have been on maximum and many passengers were openly complaining about the heat situation. Other riders who were on the train before PHL stated that the conductor said that the heat is only on or off, there is no in-between.

Returning home, on the Vermonter #57 however, it did feel like there was an in-between temp. Perhaps it was a tad on the cool side, but it was very comfortable.

What is normal for Amtrak? Does this depend on the individual car?

Thanks

Either there was a problem with the heater or the conductor was not telling the truth. There is no way that even the dumbest idiot would design a car with just an on/off switch to control the heat. Too bad you didn't ask the conductor yourself then questioned him/her a little more about why it was not working correctly.

 

[StriderGDM]

From talking to conductors, it appears the control is on the exterior of the vehicle, but there's a breaker on the inside. So in a sense, the On/Off answer is right.

 

[winterskigirl]

Unfortunately, Amtrak equipment is aging. I've been on mostly long distance trains and find the Superliner I & II's aren't very efficient anymore. As noted, dress in layers. I also bring my own small clip-on fan for personal comfort. The on-board crew does the best they can with aging equipment.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

What is normal for Amtrak?

Very hot in the winter, very cold in the summer.

Sometimes too hot, sometimes too cold. Dress in layers.

While that's good advice the truth is that dressing in layers has its limits and wont necessarily make a train thats too hot comfortable. Which is why I wish they would error on the side of being a too cold instead of too hot. In the summer I'm usually good but in the winter it can be really uncomfortable for me if the crew is unwilling to turn it down.

Unfortunately, Amtrak equipment is aging. I've been on mostly long distance trains and find the Superliner I & II's aren't very efficient anymore. As noted, dress in layers. I also bring my own small clip-on fan for personal comfort. The on-board crew does the best they can with aging equipment.

The portable fan is a good idea but also works against my goal of traveling light. Maybe it's time I reconsidered that decision. Ive ridden on ancient Boeing 742s that had better temperature controls than anything Ive seen on Amtrak.

 

[OBS]

The Conductor was not lying regarding the Amfleet 1 cars used in the corridor. The system was designed as a "hands off" system. Inside the car there is an emergency switch to turn off the blowers. That is all. Underneath the car is the switches to turn on and off the floor heat and A/C compressors...

 

[Devil's Advocate]

The Conductor was not lying regarding the Amfleet 1 cars used in the corridor. The system was designed as a "hands off" system. Inside the car there is an emergency switch to turn off the blowers. That is all. Underneath the car is the switches to turn on and off the floor heat and A/C compressors.

Where I come from a "hands off" temperature system is called a thermostat. Does any rolling stock Amtrak owns make use of a thermostat? We're talking about a concept that dates back to the 1600's and a functional device that enjoyed practical usage in the 1800's.

 

[OBS]

These cars do have an interior bulb thermostat or two that monitor the temperature and supposedly adjust the climate accordingly. A major effort was made about 15 years ago to replace these with " better" thermostats. IME it helped in "some" of the cars, in others, my old axiom I told passengers remained true..." The warmer it is outside, the colder it becomes inside and the colder it was outside, the warmer (hotter) it got inside the car"...

 

[HAL]

This weekend, I traveled on the Keystone #662 from PHL - NYP and the train was uncomfortably hot. The heat must have been on maximum and many passengers were openly complaining about the heat situation. Other riders who were on the train before PHL stated that the conductor said that the heat is only on or off, there is no in-between.

Returning home, on the Vermonter #57 however, it did feel like there was an in-between temp. Perhaps it was a tad on the cool side, but it was very comfortable.

What is normal for Amtrak? Does this depend on the individual car?

Thanks

Either there was a problem with the heater or the conductor was not telling the truth. There is no way that even the dumbest idiot would design a car with just an on/off switch to control the heat. Too bad you didn't ask the conductor yourself then questioned him/her a little more about why it was not working correctly.

That is the way some idiot years ago designed the cars. There is only on or off.

 

[HAL]

The Conductor was not lying regarding the Amfleet 1 cars used in the corridor. The system was designed as a "hands off" system. Inside the car there is an emergency switch to turn off the blowers. That is all. Underneath the car is the switches to turn on and off the floor heat and A/C compressors.

Where I come from a "hands off" temperature system is called a thermostat. Does any rolling stock Amtrak owns make use of a thermostat? We're talking about a concept that dates back to the 1600's and a functional device that enjoyed practical usage in the 1800's.

There is a thermostat on Amfleets but it can't be adjusted. So if there is a defect then the crew is **** out of luck. And that happens a lot, a defect. On Acela it can be adjusted by the crew, low, normal, high, three degrees either way. Usually though the Acela HVAC works properly and needs no adjustment. The conductor can see the temperatures of each car the office.

 

[the Other Mike]

Sorry, there is NO "normal" when dealing with Amtrak

 

[oldtimer]

These cars do have an interior bulb thermostat or two that monitor the temperature and supposedly adjust the climate accordingly. A major effort was made about 15 years ago to replace these with " better" thermostats. IME it helped in "some" of the cars, in others, my old axiom I told passengers remained true..." The warmer it is outside, the colder it becomes inside and the colder it was outside, the warmer (hotter) it got inside the car"...

Having had experience with Amtrak passenger cars of all types. OBS is fully correct in his statement regarding Amfleet temperature control. these cars have an array of thermostats that are set at a particular temperature the triggers a specific function IE an added stage of heat, outside temperature too high or low. The "better" thermostats OBS mentions were electronic replacements for the ancient design that used mercury.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

These cars do have an interior bulb thermostat or two that monitor the temperature and supposedly adjust the climate accordingly. A major effort was made about 15 years ago to replace these with " better" thermostats. IME it helped in "some" of the cars, in others, my old axiom I told passengers remained true..." The warmer it is outside, the colder it becomes inside and the colder it was outside, the warmer (hotter) it got inside the car"...

Having had experience with Amtrak passenger cars of all types. OBS is fully correct in his statement regarding Amfleet temperature control. these cars have an array of thermostats that are set at a particular temperature the triggers a specific function IE an added stage of heat, outside temperature too high or low. The "better" thermostats OBS mentions were electronic replacements for the ancient design that used mercury.

The use of a bimetallic strip tied to a mercury switch isn't what makes a thermostat "bad" per se, rather it's the inability to easily easily readjust such a thermostat that makes it a defective design. Also, the outside temperature should be a secondary or tertiary variable at best and should never be able to override the observed inside temperature.

 

[HAL]

These cars do have an interior bulb thermostat or two that monitor the temperature and supposedly adjust the climate accordingly. A major effort was made about 15 years ago to replace these with " better" thermostats. IME it helped in "some" of the cars, in others, my old axiom I told passengers remained true..." The warmer it is outside, the colder it becomes inside and the colder it was outside, the warmer (hotter) it got inside the car"...

Having had experience with Amtrak passenger cars of all types. OBS is fully correct in his statement regarding Amfleet temperature control. these cars have an array of thermostats that are set at a particular temperature the triggers a specific function IE an added stage of heat, outside temperature too high or low. The "better" thermostats OBS mentions were electronic replacements for the ancient design that used mercury.

The use of a bimetallic strip tied to a mercury switch isn't what makes a thermostat "bad" per se, rather it's the inability to easily easily readjust such a thermostat that makes it a defective design. Also, the outside temperature should be a secondary or tertiary variable at best and should never be able to override the observed inside temperature.

Whoever designed these cars in the 70's did not trust the crew to readjust the temperature. However even if it could be readjusted, readjusting would not solve the problem. The heat stage of the HVAC is not cutting off. That is why it gets hot. The Thermostat itself has become defective. And in another brilliant design choice while you can turn the air blowers off from inside the car that usually does not help much because it is the floor heat that keeps going. The floor heat breakers are on the outside of the car underneath in a panal box. So they can't just be turned off when running enroute.

 

[Barciur]

This weekend, I traveled on the Keystone #662 from PHL - NYP and the train was uncomfortably hot. The heat must have been on maximum and many passengers were openly complaining about the heat situation. Other riders who were on the train before PHL stated that the conductor said that the heat is only on or off, there is no in-between.

Returning home, on the Vermonter #57 however, it did feel like there was an in-between temp. Perhaps it was a tad on the cool side, but it was very comfortable.

What is normal for Amtrak? Does this depend on the individual car?

Thanks

I had this same issue this weekend on #665 from Philly to Harrisburg (Sunday). The engine died in Philly and they had us transfer into a different consist (with just 4 cars instead of 5). Those cars were HOT, it was very uncomfortable. However, I ride about 20-25 times a year roundtrip between Philly and Lancaster and never had an issue - this was a first. So no, it's not common. They are usually OK.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

. The floor heat breakers are on the outside of the car underneath in a panal box. So they can't just be turned off when running enroute.

Sure they can-just do your best Gene Wilder Silver Streak impersonation and you can get right to them :lol:

 

[oldtimer]

Another problem is that the position of the thermostats. They are located near the ends of the car and the cold air is allowed in everytime the doors are open. This applies not just to the loading door, but also cold air from the vestibule as passengers travel between cars.

 

[Slayer Essence]

Thanks for the information everybody, It's nice to learn about the behind the scenes workings on the system.

I understand Amtrak is doing the best it can with what it has.

 

[Jane smith]

It's like a sauna. People feel sick. The only thing to do is stand between cars.

 

[Bus Nut]

It's like a sauna. People feel sick. The only thing to do is stand between cars.

Hard to get away with that on anything but a commuter run these days. Riding in the vestibule is a safety hazard for multiple reasons. Yeah, that was my favorite place when I was a teenager, fresh air whistling and a decent view. :giggle:

 

[Domefoamer]

Ditto that! And Dutch doors, too!

Anything to avoid being cooped up on a hot car. Nothing short of a train wreck would make me wish I had taken a plane, or stayed home, or anything else! Last Spring's overnight on the Zephyr was supposed to be a treat. The in-room shower was handy, because I had get up and take three showers to cool down. I tried to sleep on the top bunk, but the coffin like confines, bumpy track and stifling air gave me the worst panic attack in decades. I was muttering about renting a car to finish the journey. Thankfully, the next night's CS was cool and calm and all this was forgotten.

I'm not sure I could have carried a big enough portable fan to cope with that hot room. My 4" fan was basically useless, but I can recommend a dampened, wrung-out t-shirt. Unless in subtropical climes, that should lower the apparent temperature by 10-20 degrees.

 

[Tennessee Traveler]

Not sure if the "Guests" have ever traveled on Amtrak in the Winter. I just rode both the California Zephyr and City of New Orleans Emeryville Chicago New Orleans January 22-25. Every car on both trains were comfortable including my roomettes. There is a "heat" thermostat turn knob in the rooms in the sleepers which I tend to turn to warmest setting. I was comforatable in my room but did need and use 2 blankets when sleeping at night. I never felt the "sauna" effect on either train in any car.