Gunn to be Fired???

[AmtrakLoverAndHater]

On a separate subject, passenger rail will emerge somewhere if (actually when IMO) indeed full shut down of the long distance services takes place. I can tell you it is not going away. They just don't want Amtrak monopolizing the whole thing. It seems to me as if the Bush cronies think we should return to the business structure of the passenger rail of yesteryear. It won't work except in certain areas, and with proper funding. We shall see what takes place. But passenger rail as we know it is gonna change! I've said that for over a year now if the administration gets their way! OBS...

States with ample funds will most likely have the "best" systems. I live in California, so I am not worried that I won't be able to take the train down to San Diego.

All of the Class 1's are fully aware there is no money to be made in passenger service, and with demand rising for premium services (intermodal) they will be hard-pressed to set aside track space for a money losing proposition. If anything, killing Amtrak now will essentially guarantee the US will never have an intercity rail system again.

Obviously this is all speculation, but the writing has been on the wall for a long time.

edit: I should also note the NEC will continue to see as many Federal dollars as the government can throw at it. I doubt that Mineta or the board will demand anywhere near as much cash from the states it serves as they will for the longhauls. And since I don't live in the NE, and although it is probably a trite thing to say, it would be my hope that a taxation without representation type of thing would prevent ANY federal dollars to go to the NEC if the rest of the system is axed :angry:

 

[Trogdor]

Personally, I think hysteria and outrage are the way to go for the moment. Now, everybody's looking at the Board and its actions, and will be going over them with a fine-toothed comb.

Granted, there's not much that can be done (other than legislate the board out of existence, which is possible), but with the eyes of the whole country on the Board's every action, it may be a bit more difficult for them to function in pulling off their scandalous deeds.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

[quoting madisonwi: "but with the eyes of the whole country on the Board's every action, it may be a bit more difficult for them to function in pulling off their scandalous deeds."]

I don't know about that at this point. I used to believe that. At this point, though, having just been told by the Senate, with a nearly unanimous vote, that the American people WANT Amtrak (the authorization vote), W has basically flipped them (and us) the bird, symbolically saying (as if we didn't already know this in spades) that W doesn't give a crap what ANYBODY else thinks, he's gonna do what he wants, PERIOD. He obviously considers us, AND CONGRESS, totally irrelevant, and HIS Amtrak board is in HIS pocket, is in lock step, doesn't give a rip about Amtrak (except to guarantee that it is done away with), and doesn't give a rip what the public, or Congress, or anybody else thinks. This country is in deep crap, and it's only going to get worse until this mad hatter's tea party comes to an end. The only questions that remain: How many generations it will take to dig us out of the hole he's putting us all in, and how much of the damage will be irreparable... And I used to be proud to say I'm a Republican.

 

[Guest_Amtrak OBS Employee]

This country is in deep crap, and it's only going to get worse until this mad hatter's tea party comes to an end. The only questions that remain: How many generations it will take to dig us out of the hole he's putting us all in, and how much of the damage will be irreparable... And I used to be proud to say I'm a Republican.

Bingo. Well said. I used to be a proud republican, too. OBS...

 

[Guest]

David Gunn was, in my opinion, mediocre at best as the head of Amtrak.  He would have been a sensational VP of operations.  He knows trains.  But as CEO he needed more, including, dare I say, some political common sense.  On the later, his continued propensity to ridicule his superiors, entertaining as it was at times, was a particularly dumb way to try and advance the cause of Amtrak and passenger rail.  On that count alone, the surprise is not that he was fired today, but that it took this long.
The recent GAO report was, in my opinion, the last straw for Mr. Gunn.  The report detailed an organization with poor management control and oversight of financial matters.  That is a really bad assessment for an organization that has to come to Congress hat-in-hand every year.  After over three years on the job, the blame for this cannot be simply passed back to the previous management.  David Gunn has been on the job long enough to be responsible for the present workings of Amtrak, good and bad.  Right now, the considerable financial shortcomings that continue to plague Amtrak offset the operational improvements that took place under Mr. Gunn’s leadership.  If I were voting to give Amtrak $1 billion plus, I would like to have some assurance that the money would be controlled well and spent wisely.  The GAO report indicates that Amtrak is sorely lacking in that area and that is Mr. Gunn’s responsibility.

Good operational people can run the railroad.  There are plenty of those types around.  But for the CEO, Amtrak needs is a leader who can provide financial credibility to the company and its reports and forecasts, who is willing to work with people of divergent viewpoints and politics, and who has a willingness to change with the times.  In my opinion, that person certainly is not David Gunn.

Oh, come on!

How quickly you forget - Amtrak was within 30 days of running out of money and not making payroll, they couldn't close the financial books at all, there were 100 ralicars sitting in Beech Grove that needed repair, the cafe car attendants used to keep their money in a cardboard box(!), there were essentially no financial controls at all, no heavy equipment maintenance had been done for years, no tie replacement, no nothing.

Operating on a shoestring and burdened with both high debt and an uncertain future Gunn came in and said his first goal was to bring the railroad to a state of good repair. Even the GAO report repeatedly praised the accomplishments so far. Many of their suggestions are already underway. Just keeping the company afloat was miraculous!

The amount of progress made in 3 years is remarkable! And you say he was mediocre... Amazing! I cannot fathom how you could possibly reach that conclusion.

 

[Guest]

As an 'outsider' to this forum (meaning I have never posted, but am a passenger railfan and travel Amtrak whenever possible), I had to add my .02 cents worth.

Gunn's departure isn't a good thing. That is a given. And the current administration is anything buy 'pro' Amtrak (re: pro-goverment funded train system). But there are two things playing in our (railfans) favor.

1- The government has been bailing out the air transportation industry hand over fist for the past 10-20 years. And that industry is to the point of breaking (heavily-discounted fares are dying rapidly, carriers are going from bankruptcy to complete dissolution).

2-Rail travel numbers (passengers carried) have increased...especially since 9/11. Granted, its not commuter travel, and not business travel but rather, the common public looking for travel to a destination. This is the area that the airlines are rapidly turning their back to. They are showing signs of catering to the business traveler, to whom a 'higher-rate' fare isnt' as much of a concern.

3-Any state or district that currently has a passenger train running through it also has a congressman or representative (re: ELECTED OFFICIAL) who has voted for and supports that operation. Let them know how you feel about this. Someone early posted that this has been happening for decades and look where it's gotten us. Fact is, the trains ARE still running (although 10 hours late at times!) and will continue to do so as long as some elected official keeps gumming up the works because his constituents want it to remain that way.

Thanks for the opportunity to vent. I'm sure some will agree, many will disagree, but that's what this forum is about, isn't it? By the way, my five-year old son and I will be on the Hoosier State, connecting to the Texas Chief in early December. Thought I'd better give him is first 'sleeping car' experience while I still can!

 

[AmtrakFan]

Rumor has it that there will be a hearing about this.

 

[Dental Wiz]

There is a House subcommitee on Amtrak governance on Tuesday, November 15th at 10AM. I'm sure this issue will come up. By the way the following are my thoughts on this:

I was stunned to learn of the firing of David Gunn. Short of Grayham Claytor, Gunn was one of the best leaders Amtrak has had. Most of the chaos he inherited at Amtrak including the Acela issues. He has worked diligently and has made signifigant progress in correcting these problems. The Bush administration, against the will of Congress and the American people, wishes to dismantle the railroad by a plan that has been soundly rejected by Congress time after time. Gunn soundly fought this idea. He developed a good relationship with his employees and with Congress. He worked as a skilled railroadman to better Amtrak service for all Americans. Ridership is at record levels and Amtrak has worked positively to stem losses. No passenger rail company in the world is truly profitable. It's ironic, that Amtrak's board of which 2 of the 4 weren't even confirmed by Congress and that is still short 3 members as required by law, can make this over reaching type of decision. In addition, how can a retired executive from the former bankrupt Kmart, a Texas attorney politically connected to the President,and a cabinet appointee of the President, make an impartial decision regarding passenger rail that is appart from the Executive branch's ideas. Furthermore, short of one board member, non of these people have transportation experience let alone railroad experience. Once again, Congress and the American people have rejected the Administration's plan 2 years in a row. I find the Executive branch's disregard for the will of the American people unforgiveable. Like so many other aspects of this Bush administration, the Amtrak board has severely compromised the ideals and democratic principals that has made this nation great. It's a slap in the face to the American people.

Stephen D. Lipman, D.M.D.

(this letter was sent to Amtrak and forwarded to David Gunn,

In addition the letter was sent to my Senators and House Rep.

The New York Times came out with an editorial today trashing the Amtrak's board decision. Be sure to check it out.

Steve

 

[Miami Joe]

Last word I heard before leaving the yard was the Dem's want Gunn to attend the hearing next week, and want to investigate if the firing was illegal.

With all the recent actions that have happened behind "closed doors" in the last 3 weeks, and knowing the board has empty seats, both parties are wondering what is going on!!! :huh:

Just the fact that Gunn was asked to resign, and refused, needs to be addressed!

During his tenure, He was "honest, to the point and knew what what was in store for the NEC"!

He made some changes that financially hurt the employees, realized the unions had to start accepting changes to survive, but wouldn't cave in to the demand to "strip" the NEC from the company! He knew that once the NEC was taken away, any bargaining power left was gone!!!

Everyone at Amtrak is "scared" now and worried another "puppet" or a "clean-up' team will start to dismantle Amtrak!

MJ B)

 

[MrFSS]

Read this interesting letter:

Letter from Congress

 

[MDRailfan]

I'm in total shock about Gunn's firing and I feel so bad. He did so much for Amtrak given all the resources that was available to him.

Question is why did the board wait till now to do it? They could have years ago. Also what is the point of looking for a new President and CEO when all the board has to do is refuse the federal funding and that would end Amtrak. I hope that Congress can do something to keep Amtrak going and reverse the board. If it would do some good, I will contact my reps.

Now I need some advice on the following:

My wife who is not really a railfan but enjoyed the Crescent last March to New Orleans(I think she became one after that!), ask me if we should cancel our planned Auto Train trip for next June(we already have our tickets) since Amtrak may not be around and it's not for seven month. I did not know how to answer her on that.

I need the advice of you who are experts.

 

[Guest_Amtrak_flyer]

Mr FSS..

That letter gives me hope we can turn this thing around. I called today and up late tonight writing letters. Lets make this happen!

 

[AmtrakFan]

Mr FSS..
That letter gives me hope we can turn this thing around. I called today and up late tonight writing letters. Lets make this happen!

I am hopeful this will happen. I plan on continueing writing to my congressmen.

 

[trainboy325]

MDRailfan, I don't believe at this time that Auto Train is in jeopardy. Although with storm clouds starting to build at Amtrak, I'd say take a chance and plan to take your trip in June. It's way too early to know what will exactly happen to the entire Amtrak system at this time. Everyone I know that really knows Amtrak has little hope for a bright future, but thousands of people are making a lot of noise over the David Gunn bomb; you'd be surprised what can occur when a small, but vigilant, group of people cry fowl about what the Board of Directors is trying to do to Amtrak. If you cancel you're trip and make alternative plans, then the Board has accomplished a goal: run passengers off long distance trains.

If you think you're wife became a railfan on the Crescent, she'll definately become one after riding the Auto Train. It's the best long distance train Amtrak has to offer!!!

 

[wvbaker]

Now I need some advice on the following:My wife who is not really a railfan but enjoyed the Crescent last March to New Orleans(I think she became one after that!), ask me if we should cancel our planned Auto Train trip for next June(we already have our tickets) since Amtrak may not be around and it's not for seven month. I did not know how to answer her on that.

I need the advice of you who are experts.

MDRailfan, We too are planing to take our first trip aboard the Auto Train in March next year. It will be our first time experiencing a trip in a sleeper car. As we also have our tickets, I understand your apprehension towards what’s taking place. Believe me, the last thing we want to see is Amtrak go into Bankruptcy and finding ourselves, as well as all the others who have pre-booked, having little if any chance in recovering the substantial investment already made.

Over at “ON TRACK ON LINE”, I emailed Don Weinstein who put together the information regarding the Auto Train. He responded back with the following.

“The Auto Train is a proven operation, which has the ability to make money for its operator. While I strongly hope that Amtrak remains in operation and that the Auto Train remains part of Amtrak, it's likely that the Auto Train could be spun off into its own successful commercial entity, if so ordered.”

I hope he’s right on both. That Amtrak remains in operation and the Auto Train continues operation.

I have also contacted my state representatives concerning this matter and made my feelings known. I have also written to local, as well as national publications expressing my grave concerns that with gas prices being what they are and that the government already has bailed out the airline industry, how could they allow our rail systems to “go under”.

I hope we all take the time and make the effort to contact as many sources as possible across this country in order to express our feelings and get as many people involved in attempting to save Amtrak as we can.

 

[Ray L. Nutz]

That letter by the way is not from Congress, but from US house of representatives.

from Sub- commitee on transportation and infrastructure

 

[MDRailfan]

Thanks trainboy325 & WVBaker.

I haven't turn them in yet. I'm willing to take a chance on Amtrak. Hope everyone else is! I want to continue to see record numbers taking the train so that no one can say that Amtrak is not needed because nobody takes the train. I still believe that the majority of Americans, even if they do not travel on Amtrak, support it because it helps in providing a fair and balance transportation system. Besides, it's also alot of fun to take. Looking forward to the Auto Train!