Greyhound seats and fleet questions

[Swadian Hardcore]

But why did they send 60 rufurbished 102DL3s to Canada? If they need improved buses up there, they could refurbish the Canadian 1000-series.

I guess all the non-rufurbed DL3s were built with lifts, the ones from pool 251 I think. Or was it 254?

 

[Amtrak Cajun]

Greyhound is working on buying new buses, they are going to slowly replace the entire fleet with the new D4505's and X3-45's. That is why they are getting rid of the older buses. Im glad too. After a while, all you are going to see are the new blue and silver buses.

They are also working to update their terminals, but they really need to improve their staff. I have run across some rude GLI employees in my travels. Those are the ones that leave the worst impressions. I have seen some terminals in the system that really need to be either rebuilt, or remodeled badly. If they can accomplish that, then Greyhounds reputation may improve.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Greyhound is working on buying new buses, they are going to slowly replace the entire fleet with the new D4505's and X3-45's. That is why they are getting rid of the older buses. Im glad too. After a while, all you are going to see are the new blue and silver buses.
They are also working to update their terminals, but they really need to improve their staff. I have run across some rude GLI employees in my travels. Those are the ones that leave the worst impressions. I have seen some terminals in the system that really need to be either rebuilt, or remodeled badly. If they can accomplish that, then Greyhounds reputation may improve.

They need more buses instead of retiring buses. And they haven't retired any undamaged DL3s, only sent some to Canada. They're not even that old, the oldest one is from 1998. Look at those 1994 Flxible Metros that still run for TriMet.

What they need to get rid of are the G4500s, not the DL3s.

 

[Amtrak Cajun]

Well, I just read on Greyhounds news page that they just placed a major order with MCI and Prevost as of 4/01. They are ordering 220 new buses. The breakdown is 130 MCI D4505's, and 90 Prevost X3-45's. The first arrival of this new order will be in May of 2013, with the rest arriving in 2014.

The problem with the older DL3's though Swadian is that Greyhound is running them into the ground. Lets face it, they run their buses very hard. They dog them. Pun intended. They just dont do as much maintenance on them as they should. I had a friend that drove for Greyhound, I dont know if he is still driving, I havent seen him in a while. He told me unfortunately, Greyhound will turn and burn *meaning run them back and forth* without really giving them the thorough attention they need.

 

[railiner]

Well, I just read on Greyhounds news page that they just placed a major order with MCI and Prevost as of 4/01. They are ordering 220 new buses. The breakdown is 130 MCI D4505's, and 90 Prevost X3-45's. The first arrival of this new order will be in May of 2013, with the rest arriving in 2014.
The problem with the older DL3's though Swadian is that Greyhound is running them into the ground. Lets face it, they run their buses very hard. They dog them. Pun intended. They just dont do as much maintenance on them as they should. I had a friend that drove for Greyhound, I dont know if he is still driving, I havent seen him in a while. He told me unfortunately, Greyhound will turn and burn *meaning run them back and forth* without really giving them the thorough attention they need.

I must agree with you on this....GL doesn't even have a garage in NYC any longer. If there is a problem that the mechanics assigned to the Port can't remedy with their extremely limited resources, they will try to work the bus to Atlantic City, or some other location where GL has a garage, if at all possible. Overall, GL on a nationwide basis, has a fraction of the garage facilities that they used to.

 

[Amtrak Cajun]

Eventually, their whole fleet will be D4505's and X3-45's. Thats their plan. As the older buses give up the ghost, they are being replaced with the newer fleet. I hope Greyhound also continues to refresh and update their terminals, thats where they really need the improvement.

With the new buses also comes the expansion of their Express markets. which is good for everyone, less stopping and a quicker trip overall.

Also, one thing I noticed about the leather seating on my return trip from New Orleans recently. I had 2 older D4500's that were remodeled, new paint and whatnot, and the leather seats they used were different *different type* than the leather/suede seating used on the D4505's and the X3-45's. I personally found these seats to be more comfortable and more supportive than the newer bus seats. It had more lumbar support and more padding it seemed to me. I was actually "gasp* comfortable!!

 

[railiner]

Possibly because the rebuilt buses also had reupholstered and recovered older seat types--not sure of that.......the newest buses come with what are 'containment' seats, DOT mandated. They are similar to school bus seats in that they offer better protection and containment in a major wreck, even if the occupants don't use the integrated seatbelts.

The downside is they aren't much more comfortable than school bus seats, either, although they are individual and reclines somewhat....

 

[Amtrak Cajun]

That makes sense. I even talked to a few of the drivers, and they didnt even like the newer seats. They pretty much told me these new buses arent as comfortable to drive because of the seating, but he smiled and said we deal with it, they order it, we drive it lol.

I actually didnt try the seatbelts on the Prevost X3 that I got to ride on. If I get to ride another one, I will give them a try, but I ride Amtrak more than I do the dog.

Not to say that the new seating is bad per se, because its still softer and more comfy than the older blue seating that Greyhound had before. The leather/suede combo is actually quite nice to the touch

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Are you sure they were actually D4500s? Only the 6600s are D4500s, even though they are it's the same thing as the 102DL3. A big problem with the Expresses is that a lot of routes use Express buses but are not branded as Express, even though they skip many stops.

BTW, I got to measure the seats on the G4500. They have a pitch of 32'' and a width of 17''. They will probably be replaced with the new order of 220 units as there are about that number remaining. Last one should leave 2015 or 2016. The 102DL3 will stay until 2020-2022.

 

[Amtrak Cajun]

Yep, they were both 66XX numbered.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Yep, they were both 66XX numbered.

Wow, those are rare. I guess those are D4500s.

 

[railiner]

Saw a new D4505 in the Port today. It was 863xx....forgot the last two digits......

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Saw a new D4505 in the Port today. It was 863xx....forgot the last two digits......

I don't know if that is new or from the first order. I think all the 86300s were built 2009-2010. Where was it going?

I just rode 86397. It was running Reno-Denver. I had come from San Francisco on a stinking 7104. Obviously the second bus was much better. I actually got some decent sleep with eye patches and made up some more after SLC. We took the scenic route, US 40.

 

[railiner]

Saw a new D4505 in the Port today. It was 863xx....forgot the last two digits......

I don't know if that is new or from the first order. I think all the 86300s were built 2009-2010. Where was it going?

I just rode 86397. It was running Reno-Denver. I had come from San Francisco on a stinking 7104. Obviously the second bus was much better. I actually got some decent sleep with eye patches and made up some more after SLC. We took the scenic route, US 40.

Hmmm. You may be right. It just looked fairly new, and it was parked on the "wall", between assignments.

By the way, that ride on US 40 from SLC to Denver, I think is one of the most scenic bus routes anywhere.....

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Saw a new D4505 in the Port today. It was 863xx....forgot the last two digits......

I don't know if that is new or from the first order. I think all the 86300s were built 2009-2010. Where was it going?

I just rode 86397. It was running Reno-Denver. I had come from San Francisco on a stinking 7104. Obviously the second bus was much better. I actually got some decent sleep with eye patches and made up some more after SLC. We took the scenic route, US 40.

Hmmm. You may be right. It just looked fairly new, and it was parked on the "wall", between assignments.

By the way, that ride on US 40 from SLC to Denver, I think is one of the most scenic bus routes anywhere.....

That route sure is nice. The Denver-Las Vegas is good too, through the San Rafael Swell.

Most G4500s are in the West. Spotted loads in San Francisco. Every non-express was a G, and even some expresses got subbed one. Maybe they are refurbing the G instead of retiring them, a driver said some of them got new seats while keeping the old Road Rainbow. Sounds weird.

Do you guys (Adirondack) still have the 102B3, C3, and D3? If so, on which routes? Now that I think of it, that "MC-9" I rode was probably a 102B3.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I just found out that some G4500s have been fully refurbished instead of just repainted or with new seats. This means they won't be getting retired anytime soon, but the most damaged ones may still get scrapped. Then I found this picture from good old Birmingham: http://www.flickr.com/photos/98444414@N08/9201639403/in/pool-go_greyhound/

I didn't know they still had G4500s running east of Dallas. I'm waiting to see how these buses run now, but I don't except anything spectacular. Might not have solved the problem of fires, breakdowns, broken restrooms, etc.

I also found a few pictures of the few new Van Hools Greyhound got, but the links bugged out. It was 83808, with a sliding door instead of the classic sedan doors.

 

[railiner]

Saw a new D4505 in the Port today. It was 863xx....forgot the last two digits......

I don't know if that is new or from the first order. I think all the 86300s were built 2009-2010. Where was it going?

I just rode 86397. It was running Reno-Denver. I had come from San Francisco on a stinking 7104. Obviously the second bus was much better. I actually got some decent sleep with eye patches and made up some more after SLC. We took the scenic route, US 40.

Hmmm. You may be right. It just looked fairly new, and it was parked on the "wall", between assignments.

By the way, that ride on US 40 from SLC to Denver, I think is one of the most scenic bus routes anywhere.....

That route sure is nice. The Denver-Las Vegas is good too, through the San Rafael Swell.

Most G4500s are in the West. Spotted loads in San Francisco. Every non-express was a G, and even some expresses got subbed one. Maybe they are refurbing the G instead of retiring them, a driver said some of them got new seats while keeping the old Road Rainbow. Sounds weird.

Do you guys (Adirondack) still have the 102B3, C3, and D3? If so, on which routes? Now that I think of it, that "MC-9" I rode was probably a 102B3.

Sorry I didn't see this question earlier.....Adirondack has traded in all the older MCI's.....the only ones still in the fleet are the J's and a trio of D4505's.

 

[railiner]

I just found out that some G4500s have been fully refurbished instead of just repainted or with new seats. This means they won't be getting retired anytime soon, but the most damaged ones may still get scrapped. Then I found this picture from good old Birmingham: http://www.flickr.com/photos/98444414@N08/9201639403/in/pool-go_greyhound/
I didn't know they still had G4500s running east of Dallas. I'm waiting to see how these buses run now, but I don't except anything spectacular. Might not have solved the problem of fires, breakdowns, broken restrooms, etc.

I also found a few pictures of the few new Van Hools Greyhound got, but the links bugged out. It was 83808, with a sliding door instead of the classic sedan doors.

We still see an unrefurbed G here and there. Last week we had an older Van Hool that came from one of the Texas GL subsidiaries, not sure if Valley Transit or Americanos...

I wouldn't exactly call the Van Hool's entrance door a sliding door, although it appears to operate as one. It is actually a one-piece, plug type door that makes a seal as good as a 'sedan' door. It is similar to the two-piece plug type doors that MCI commuter buses have, as well as the old Eagles in our fleet, years ago.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Saw a new D4505 in the Port today. It was 863xx....forgot the last two digits......

I don't know if that is new or from the first order. I think all the 86300s were built 2009-2010. Where was it going?

I just rode 86397. It was running Reno-Denver. I had come from San Francisco on a stinking 7104. Obviously the second bus was much better. I actually got some decent sleep with eye patches and made up some more after SLC. We took the scenic route, US 40.

Hmmm. You may be right. It just looked fairly new, and it was parked on the "wall", between assignments.

By the way, that ride on US 40 from SLC to Denver, I think is one of the most scenic bus routes anywhere.....

That route sure is nice. The Denver-Las Vegas is good too, through the San Rafael Swell.

Most G4500s are in the West. Spotted loads in San Francisco. Every non-express was a G, and even some expresses got subbed one. Maybe they are refurbing the G instead of retiring them, a driver said some of them got new seats while keeping the old Road Rainbow. Sounds weird.

Do you guys (Adirondack) still have the 102B3, C3, and D3? If so, on which routes? Now that I think of it, that "MC-9" I rode was probably a 102B3.

Sorry I didn't see this question earlier.....Adirondack has traded in all the older MCI's.....the only ones still in the fleet are the J's and a trio of D4505's.

Never seen those D4505s. I sure wish they would trade in the J4500s and buy more D4505s. The Js have probably run a million miles each by now. Are Adirondack coaches all capital leased from MCI or someone else? Which routes do the D4505s operate?

I just found out that some G4500s have been fully refurbished instead of just repainted or with new seats. This means they won't be getting retired anytime soon, but the most damaged ones may still get scrapped. Then I found this picture from good old Birmingham: http://www.flickr.com/photos/98444414@N08/9201639403/in/pool-go_greyhound/
I didn't know they still had G4500s running east of Dallas. I'm waiting to see how these buses run now, but I don't except anything spectacular. Might not have solved the problem of fires, breakdowns, broken restrooms, etc.

I also found a few pictures of the few new Van Hools Greyhound got, but the links bugged out. It was 83808, with a sliding door instead of the classic sedan doors.

We still see an unrefurbed G here and there. Last week we had an older Van Hool that came from one of the Texas GL subsidiaries, not sure if Valley Transit or Americanos...

I wouldn't exactly call the Van Hool's entrance door a sliding door, although it appears to operate as one. It is actually a one-piece, plug type door that makes a seal as good as a 'sedan' door. It is similar to the two-piece plug type doors that MCI commuter buses have, as well as the old Eagles in our fleet, years ago.

There's still plenty of unrefurbished G4500s in the West. As I saw hordes of the old Road Rainbows in San Francisco in early June. I don't know how fast Greyhound's gonna refurb them, it better be fast. I just hope they won't burn up or break down nearly as much as they used to.

Of course the pair of G4500s I rode on my leg to SFD were all in the old config. 7278 had a bunch of the lengendary duct tape around the windows and parcel racks. 7104 in Charter Services livery was even worse, paint falling off, the lavatory door wouldn't shut, smelling up the whole, bus, AC malfunction made it worse, and the axles screeched like a drill every time we made a turn. A huge amount worse than the D-series I rode on from Denver.

 

[railiner]

Adirondack is going to begin trading in the J's soon. The three D4505's were funded by the State of New York, and are restricted to operate only on line runs within the state. So no runs to Montreal or Toronto. The only variance is that they are allowed to travel down Route 17 thru New Jersey enroute to New York City. They are used mostly on Albany-Westchester- Long Island runs, all within the state. Also on locals from Albany to Kingston, or up to Warrensburg. They are okay, but are lacking in baggage space at peak college travel times due to the wheelchair lift taking up a lot of space....The company is not planning to purchase any more of them, but rather, Prevost H3's. NYT is also getting H3's, while Pine Hill is getting Van Hool Co2045's.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Adirondack is going to begin trading in the J's soon. The three D4505's were funded by the State of New York, and are restricted to operate only on line runs within the state. So no runs to Montreal or Toronto. The only variance is that they are allowed to travel down Route 17 thru New Jersey enroute to New York City. They are used mostly on Albany-Westchester- Long Island runs, all within the state. Also on locals from Albany to Kingston, or up to Warrensburg. They are okay, but are lacking in baggage space at peak college travel times due to the wheelchair lift taking up a lot of space....The company is not planning to purchase any more of them, but rather, Prevost H3's. NYT is also getting H3's, while Pine Hill is getting Van Hool Co2045's.

Now it seems that luggage space is becoming a huge issue with every bus. If the D4505, X3-45 both lack luggage space, then I assume the orginal D-series buses with a wheelchair lift also get packed with bags.

I know the H3-45 is very tall, allowing much space for the hold, but I thought it was designed for charters and tours. Is there really any bus out there that's designed for line-haul and has good luggage capacity?

 

[railiner]

The original DL's, and XL's without wheelchair lifts were just adequate for the most part, if carefully packed, when college students returned or headed to school. When the lifts were mandated, it sometimes became necessary to leave seats empty, as the cargo bays filled up before the seats did. This could have been prevented, if the carrier's strictly enforced the tariff limits on baggage and what should have been carried as 'express'. However, we are usually very liberal with our allowance, to gain good customer will, and also because for much of the time, our cargo bays are barely used, especially when on 'commuter' runs. It all sort of balances out.

As for good line coaches....for all their other faults, the 'J's' have good room, due to their height, as well as the rear location of the lift. the 'J' also has a very useful overhead compartment. Similarly the Van Hool's do well, due to their rear lift location. Neither of those two lifts encroach baggage space. The H3 does well, due to its tall height. The H3 makes a pretty good long haul line coach, although perhaps not as suitable for a commuter line coach account the extra steps to floor level....

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

The original DL's, and XL's without wheelchair lifts were just adequate for the most part, if carefully packed, when college students returned or headed to school. When the lifts were mandated, it sometimes became necessary to leave seats empty, as the cargo bays filled up before the seats did. This could have been prevented, if the carrier's strictly enforced the tariff limits on baggage and what should have been carried as 'express'. However, we are usually very liberal with our allowance, to gain good customer will, and also because for much of the time, our cargo bays are barely used, especially when on 'commuter' runs. It all sort of balances out.
As for good line coaches....for all their other faults, the 'J's' have good room, due to their height, as well as the rear location of the lift. the 'J' also has a very useful overhead compartment. Similarly the Van Hool's do well, due to their rear lift location. Neither of those two lifts encroach baggage space. The H3 does well, due to its tall height. The H3 makes a pretty good long haul line coach, although perhaps not as suitable for a commuter line coach account the extra steps to floor level....

This sure is confusing. So in the end there's not much difference between the J4500, H3-45, and C2045? I have ridden all three, and I think the H3-45 is a great tour coach, the J4500 left a bad impression becuase of multiple AC failures, and the C2045 had was unstable, which made me feel a bit sick.

That's just my observations, maybe the J isn't so bad, but I've heard many sotries about it's AC failing and other electrical problems. Not nearly as bad as the G4500, but not a great reliable coach. If the H3-45 is a good LD coach, then Greyhound should have bought that, not the X3-45. But the Greyhound DL3 luggage holds I've seen always have empty space and I rarely saw college students riding Greyhound on the LD services running from Denver.

Edit: Does bus speed and acceleration factor into this as well? I'd imagine that faster buses with better grade performance would be good for those long Western highways that cross mountains and deserts. I think buses with a longer wheelbase might have high top speed but poor grade performance. The D-series does go quite fast uphill, I hear it can go 50 up Berthoud Pass and 75 up Golconda Summit. In fact, I remember riding a DL3 that quickly passed three trucks in a row when going uphill, and I don't think much buses can do that.

 

[railiner]

I was only addressing the baggage capabilities in my opinion above.

For drivability, ride, and handling, my favorite among the current choices is the X3. The D would be my next choice, followed by the H3, then the 'J' and the Van Hool would be at the bottom....but JMHO......

(I can't comment on the Setra, having never driven one, but after a very short ride (just 3 miles), I would compare it to a Van Hool......)

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I was only addressing the baggage capabilities in my opinion above. For drivability, ride, and handling, my favorite among the current choices is the X3. The D would be my next choice, followed by the H3, then the 'J' and the Van Hool would be at the bottom....but JMHO......

(I can't comment on the Setra, having never driven one, but after a very short ride (just 3 miles), I would compare it to a Van Hool......)

Actually, that's very similar to my opinions! I do doubt how a bus with the very long wheelbase combined with the wide air bellows of the X3-45 would perform in mountainous terrain, plus the X3-45 dosen't seem as durable as the D. This MCI fan will admit that the X3 rides extremly smoothly.

Now it seems that everyone hates Van Hool! I wonder what Mr. F. V. H. has to say about this!

Edit: And hey, the irony is that Megabus is trying to advertise on this page for the most hated coach in America!