For Coach Passengers - What's the boarding stress level?

[the_traveler]

Well maybe Amtrak has changed the procedure and is now requiring all conductors to do that. But as recently as last October on my way to/from the Gathering in LA, I had zero tickets lifted in the lounge. And only the condcutor for the Eagle lifted tickets that day going westbound in the lounge. I don't believe that we made it back to Chicago before the Westbounds left for that day, but again none of the eastbound conductors collected tickets.
Over the years, I think that I've probably had maybe 4 or 5 tickets lifted in the lounge, and again in most cases tickets were not collected for most other trains.

When I went to the Gathering in October, they collected my EB and Cardinal tickets in the Lounge. (Since these were the 1st 2 departures, I can't say about the others.) In March I heard them call for tickets for the EB, CZ, TE, SWC, Cardinal and CL in the Lounge. I was on the SWC, Cardinal and CL - so I can't say because I was not there about the CONO or LSL departures.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I would think that this must be some sort of change in Amtrak policy. Two separate days and all those ticketed for sleepers were collected in the lounge.

Good news I suppose then.

 

[PRR 60]

I would think that this must be some sort of change in Amtrak policy. Two separate days and all those ticketed for sleepers were collected in the lounge.
Good news I suppose then.

Of course, not everyone travelling Sleeper necessarily boards from the lounge. If I have a 2pm CHI departure, I'll show up at the station at 1:30, simply hang out at the Great Hall for twenty minutes or so, and then head over to the now-deserted gate area and board, ticket in hand. That way I avoid the lounge hassle (and, in my opinion, it is a hassle), and the general boarding cattle call (think Southwest Airlines without groups). I have a room waitng so there is no benefit from early boarding.

If they now assume that all Sleeper tickets were lifted in the lounge, at least in my case, they would be wrong.

 

[jis]

That's the thing, stay sitting till you see the end of the queue then amble out, no point in being a sheepie just because all the other passengers are!

Exactly. You're going to get a seat, and no seat is really any better than any other one. Somehow I wonder if half the people in the line believe that "reserved" coach seating is "unreserved"...

On NEC since monthly tickets holders are not counted in the reservation system in calculating how many seats are available in the inventory to sell, there is always a finite chance that someone with a reserved seat actually won;t get a seat because there were an unexpected number of monthly ticket holders on the train. In that case of course, one gets to get a seat in the cafe

Also if you want a window seat you do have reason to try to get ahead in the boarding queue.

The only way these issues could be resolved once and for all would be by reserving assigned seats. But we in the US do not like that either.

 

[jis]

Actually only a few conductors do this. Most trains do not see the conductor coming to the lounge in Chicago to collect tickets. I have seen cases where at crew change points along the way, the conductors about to take control of the train will collect all tickets from the passengers also waiting at that station. But otherwise, Chicago is the only originating station where I've seen a conductor come into a lounge or a station for that matter to collect tickets.

There are some variations of course, without that what would life be? Boring?

For Cascades in PDX and SEA the conductor or even the ticket guy needs to be contacted before boarding to get a seat assignment sticker put on your ticket, and in case of BC to get the coupon for use in the Bistro.

I have seen cases where the Conductor chose to also collect the ticket while putting the seat assignment sticker and cases where they did not, and then came around and collected the ticket later on the train.

 

[frj1983]

Boarding Manager??? The things I don't know never ceases to amaze me. Where is he? How does he decide when to have the passengers board?
I like the idea of making St. Louis another hub. Makes a lot of sense.

But working with what Amtrak does have right now, what procedures could be implemented to make boarding more streamlined?

"Boarding Manager" is a term I use to describe the employee who is in charge of boarding the entire concourse. He's a step above all of the general boarding crew but below the station master... somebody more on the inside could probably tell you his or her official position.

But in reality, nobody on the station has any real control over deciding when a train is ready for boarding-- that responsibility falls to the train's head conductor.

There is a set method of boarding pax. Boiled down bare it goes like this:

The train is moved into the station.

The OBS crew finishes stocking and turning down the train.

The running crew run checks on all major systems to make sure the train is safe and ready to board.

About 45 minutes prior to departure the conductor or the asst. conductor goes into the Lounge and takes all the sleepers' tickets.

About 30 minutes prior to departure the conductor calls the station crew and tells them he is ready to board sleepers. The station crew in the lounge direct the sleepers out of the side door.

About 25 minutes prior to departure the conductor calls the station crew and asks for redcap assisted or special needs coach pax. (Ideally, no line in coach should form earlier than this.)

About 20 minutes (sometimes 15 minutes) prior to departure the conductor calls the station crew and tells them he is ready for all coach pax. In other words, general boarding.

As coach pax are boarded they are asked their destination by the conductors/coach attendants who assign them seat checks and cars based on destination.

About 5 minutes prior to departure the boarding gates are closed. The conductor checks the train, making sure all doors are closed and all departments are ready for departure. Sometimes (if not always) there is a final test of the brakes and the conductor calls the station indicating the platform is clear and the train is ready to depart on indication.

Just pick up a scanner, all of this is on open frequency.

What fouls up this method is, not Amtrak or station staff, but pax themselves. People shoving, cutting, moving into and out of line... Boarding at CUS is only stressful to those who make it stressful to themselves and others. If they realized that no amount of bad behavior will get them a better seat or anything then everybody could calmly sit and wait until that general boarding announcement. Of course, there is a lack of seating, however this is no excuse for some of the acts of distaste I have witnessed.

I happen to love watching people stand in a line for half an hour only to hear the general boarding announcement and realize that the line they blindly walked into wasn't moving.... because nobody was getting on the damn train.

I totally agree with you ALC Rail Writer,

And you see the same kind of behavior at Airports. An announcement is made that the plane will be boarding in "blank" minutes and suddenly everyone is starting to line up. Even when certain seat numbers are called, those who are not called still surge forward...what the heck are they worried about? They've all got a boarding pass and a seat...but many with great amounts of baggage are anxious to fill the storage bins...I think this idea just carries over to Train boarding as well...it's the "I want to be FIRST mentality" :huh:

 

[PRR 60]

...On NEC since monthly tickets holders are not counted in the reservation system in calculating how many seats are available in the inventory to sell, there is always a finite chance that someone with a reserved seat actually won;t get a seat because there were an unexpected number of monthly ticket holders on the train. In that case of course, one gets to get a seat in the cafe

That brings to mind one of the most amusing parts of Amtrak's Terms and Conditions of travel. What, one may ask, does an Amtrak "reserved seat" ticket ensure for the ticket holder? Doesn't a reserved seat mean you have a seat reserved? Well......, maybe not. Here's what the Amtrak T&C's says:

Each passenger paying a fare is entitled to a seat, to the extent coach seats are available.

Hilarious! A reserved seat passenger is entitled to a seat as long as there are seats. If there are no seats, then your reserved seat is no seat. That one cracks me up every time I read it. It's legal mumbo-jumbo that ensures that Amtrak has not really promised anything to anyone.

 

[Long Train Runnin']

I totally agree with you ALC Rail Writer,
And you see the same kind of behavior at Airports. An announcement is made that the plane will be boarding in "blank" minutes and suddenly everyone is starting to line up. Even when certain seat numbers are called, those who are not called still surge forward...what the heck are they worried about? They've all got a boarding pass and a seat...but many with great amounts of baggage are anxious to fill the storage bins...I think this idea just carries over to Train boarding as well...it's the "I want to be FIRST mentality" :huh:

If you read this board you can be first I was the first person to board an Acela in NYP beating even the first class people without being in the club acela lounge. I was the first person to board the ethan allen express as well. Granted I was in BC and when we left there were only 5 people in the car anyway.

 

[the_traveler]

For Cascades in PDX and SEA the conductor or even the ticket guy needs to be contacted before boarding to get a seat assignment sticker put on your ticket, and in case of BC to get the coupon for use in the Bistro.

That's news to me!

In October, I rode the Cascades for the first time in BC from PDX. (Actually the first time on the Cascades.) Prior to boarding, I had to get the sticker in PDX. It was not until I got to King Street Station and I was walking around the station when I picked up a flyer and read about the coupon offered for BC! Needless to say, it was a little late! :blink:

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

That's the thing, stay sitting till you see the end of the queue then amble out, no point in being a sheepie just because all the other passengers are!

Exactly. You're going to get a seat, and no seat is really any better than any other one. Somehow I wonder if half the people in the line believe that "reserved" coach seating is "unreserved"...

On NEC since monthly tickets holders are not counted in the reservation system in calculating how many seats are available in the inventory to sell, there is always a finite chance that someone with a reserved seat actually won;t get a seat because there were an unexpected number of monthly ticket holders on the train. In that case of course, one gets to get a seat in the cafe

Also if you want a window seat you do have reason to try to get ahead in the boarding queue.

The only way these issues could be resolved once and for all would be by reserving assigned seats. But we in the US do not like that either.

First off-- we're talking about CUS, and mainly then about LD trains originating there. Monthly ticket holders don't apply to these rules. I don't think its even reasonable to bring them in to this discussion at all-- in fact, they cause very few problems because there's generally plenty of room on a train at terminus. I have never heard or seen a train fill up to capacity at its origin...

Secondly, at CUS all LD trains that I have been on (and that numbers makes up a pretty penny) use seat checks. The conductor hands out the numbers corresponding to the seats... and he hands them out in order. Meaning if the guy in front of you is 19, congrats-- you're 20. Meaning you have a 50/50 chance of getting a window seat and there is no way to better your odds. And then, ignoring seat checks for a moment, getting a window seat is a quite pathetic and dim witted reason to want to shove your way past everybody and start a line an hour before departure. Again, not Amtrak's fault... just rude pax. In fact, it would seem that seat checking is an attempt for Amtrak to eliminate this problem and help take away a few headaches for the crew.

And technically speaking, seat checking like they do in CUS for LD trains IS an assigned boarding technique. And no, many people don't like it. Screw them. For the safety and peace of mind of everybody involved-- some sort of assigned boarding is required and, actually, seems to becoming more and more popular with stations and crew.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

For Cascades in PDX and SEA the conductor or even the ticket guy needs to be contacted before boarding to get a seat assignment sticker put on your ticket, and in case of BC to get the coupon for use in the Bistro.

That's news to me!

In October, I rode the Cascades for the first time in BC from PDX. (Actually the first time on the Cascades.) Prior to boarding, I had to get the sticker in PDX. It was not until I got to King Street Station and I was walking around the station when I picked up a flyer and read about the coupon offered for BC! Needless to say, it was a little late! :blink:

The problem with that method (the uptight method, as I call it) is that while it works when everybody is behaving and the PAs are working fine... all it takes is a couple people to misinterpret what the conductor is saying, or the PA to fizzle out over one message, for half the train to not know what's going on-- but generally it does prevent a lot of boarding headaches. In SEA for 11 last week (folks in coach, me in sleeper) all three of our tickets were collected and we all got seat checks. (Though, somehow, I find it redundant to give a sleeper a seat check... alas)

The reason I put PDX and SEA on the bottom of that list are the conductors, who each time I have encountered them have been downright rude. They smile for professionals, they don't mind you if you're quiet and just listen-- but they hate when people ask them questions, or are late at the boarding gate, looking at things as being unfathomable as to why their very specific boarding procedure didn't work on this lot... the answer usually is first-timers.

Problem with a very specific system is that the more gears you have in your engine, the more places a monkey wrench fits in!

 

[the_traveler]

For Cascades in PDX and SEA the conductor or even the ticket guy needs to be contacted before boarding to get a seat assignment sticker put on your ticket, and in case of BC to get the coupon for use in the Bistro.

In October, I rode the Cascades for the first time in BC from PDX. (Actually the first time on the Cascades.)

the answer usually is first-timers.

I am far away from being a first timer on Amtrak, but it was the first time on a Cascades. I did not know about "the coupon", thus I did not know to ask for it. I'm used to BC on a Regional. The first time I took BC on a Regional, the conductor mentioned that if I show my ticket stub at the cafe that I get free beverages. Nothing like that was mentioned on the Cascades!

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

The Cascades are horribly run trains IMHO... I haven't found one thing I like about them, besides a cheap upgrade to BC. Which, actually, isn't all that great. Hard leather 2-1 seating, the coupon is worth $3 but of course everything costs more than that-- so you end up paying money anyway. I'd much rather have free drinks and bring my lunch and snacks on board.

 

[Long Train Runnin']

The Cascades are horribly run trains IMHO... I haven't found one thing I like about them, besides a cheap upgrade to BC. Which, actually, isn't all that great. Hard leather 2-1 seating, the coupon is worth $3 but of course everything costs more than that-- so you end up paying money anyway. I'd much rather have free drinks and bring my lunch and snacks on board.

Well the $3 credit has to be good for at least one soda..

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

The Cascades are horribly run trains IMHO... I haven't found one thing I like about them, besides a cheap upgrade to BC. Which, actually, isn't all that great. Hard leather 2-1 seating, the coupon is worth $3 but of course everything costs more than that-- so you end up paying money anyway. I'd much rather have free drinks and bring my lunch and snacks on board.

Well the $3 credit has to be good for at least one soda..

Yeah, you can get it, and then you get $1 left... so you haven't used it enough.

 

[Long Train Runnin']

The Cascades are horribly run trains IMHO... I haven't found one thing I like about them, besides a cheap upgrade to BC. Which, actually, isn't all that great. Hard leather 2-1 seating, the coupon is worth $3 but of course everything costs more than that-- so you end up paying money anyway. I'd much rather have free drinks and bring my lunch and snacks on board.

Well the $3 credit has to be good for at least one soda..

Yeah, you can get it, and then you get $1 left... so you haven't used it enough.

Well then bags of chips are $1.50 so get to of those and you've sucked every dime out of it.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

They run out of chips. They stock the train with few of the items that cost $3 or less. They've run out of oatmeal, chips, coffee even...

 

[NETrainfan]

We all know CUS is totally insane for coach passengers boarding trains.Seattle is nice - no stress there.

At Kingman, AZ the SWC stops late at night and there's no stress there, except that the so-called depot is a disgrace.

I don't recall Albuquerque being a problem, although it's been many years.

Same with LAX - that was 20 years ago, but it seemed ok.

WUS isn't too bad.

How is it in Boston? New York? SF? And all the other stations?

Are there one, or two, or three things that Amtrak could implement at all stations that would make boarding easier and less stressful? I'm referring specifically to coach passengers who don't have the benefit of a first class lounge.

During the past ten years, the only station we have considered at all stressful is NYP.

 

[EB_OBS]

They run out of chips. They stock the train with few of the items that cost $3 or less. They've run out of oatmeal, chips, coffee even...

When I was an LSA on the Cascades I hated to run out of things. I frequently had large back-orders and was reminded on more than one occasion when I had ordered too much, usually because it was short dated perishable stuff like the salads or the Gretchen's sandwiches. As far as non-refrigerated stuff like candy or chips and such, I almost never ran out of those things.

The difficult thing about the Cascades is that the storage capacity just isn't there for back to back sold out trains, especially on Mariners or Seahawks game days. I remember a few trips were I had planned for the next days games on train 500 from Eugene to Seattle and still rolled into Seattle with almost nothing left to sell.

 

[EB_OBS]

If anyone has taken coach on train #8 out of Seattle since April 15th, 2009, you probably were asked to come to the ticket counter to get a seat assignment.

Between April 15th, and June 2nd, the station and train crews were working to assign seats to coach passengers. The reasoning to "take the stress out of the boarding process in Seattle."

I don't know, I didn't witness it before and I had never had any coach passengers comment to me how stressful their boarding process at King Street Station had been. Somewhere though, someone felt that the Empire Builder needed assigned seating in order to alleviate the stress. So we tried it.

Half the time train #506 was running late so those passengers transferring to the Empire Builder didn't get a seating assignment. Some passengers just didn't listen to the station announcements and thus didn't get a seat assignment. Passengers arriving after 4:15pm weren't given seat assignments. Basically, about half the passengers wouldn't have a seat assignment when boarding was announced. The attendants were instructed not to use the signage indicating areas reserved for groups, families and couples so accommodating them down line became more difficult. It was more difficult to politely ask someone to move because they had an assigned seat creating unnecessary tension and/or even conflict.

Assigned seats on the Empire Builder is gone for now. We are back to seating using the signage and hopefully attendants trained well enough to manage the seating in their cars. Assigned seating may come back though as there are still Amtrak managers who are convinced it's a stressful experience boarding train #8.

If I'm reading this thread accurately, it seems to me that the general consensus is that boarding in Seattle is fine the way it is? It's not stressful?

 

[JayPea]

I've boarded coach twice in Seattle, once on the Empire Builder and once on the Cascades, and never found it to be stressful. I did find the ticket agent on my Cascades trip to be a bit surly, however, because I had booked business class and didn't realize until the last minute that I needed to get a seat assignment and coupon for $3 off from them. She acted like I was a bit mentally challenged. And probably adding to her surliness was the fact the train I was going to be leaving on from Seattle was late getting into Seattle from Portland and she was tired of answering questions about it. I could have chosen to be stressed if I had so desired but figured her attitude was her problem and not mine.

All in all, it could have been worse. That time, too, the cafe car ran out of some food items but I attributed that to the 2 1/2 hour delay getting into Seattle. More time on the train=, in my estimation, more people eating.

 

[EB_OBS]

That time, too, the cafe car ran out of some food items but I attributed that to the 2 1/2 hour delay getting into Seattle. More time on the train=, in my estimation, more people eating.

Yes definitely, when the train gets that late, people that hadn't intended to eat on the train now may need or want to. Then the departing LSA now has less time to load the back order and get it put away in order to re-open.

 

[Steve4031]

That's the thing, stay sitting till you see the end of the queue then amble out, no point in being a sheepie just because all the other passengers are!

Exactly. You're going to get a seat, and no seat is really any better than any other one. Somehow I wonder if half the people in the line believe that "reserved" coach seating is "unreserved"...

On NEC since monthly tickets holders are not counted in the reservation system in calculating how many seats are available in the inventory to sell, there is always a finite chance that someone with a reserved seat actually won;t get a seat because there were an unexpected number of monthly ticket holders on the train. In that case of course, one gets to get a seat in the cafe

Also if you want a window seat you do have reason to try to get ahead in the boarding queue.

The only way these issues could be resolved once and for all would be by reserving assigned seats. But we in the US do not like that either.

First off-- we're talking about CUS, and mainly then about LD trains originating there. Monthly ticket holders don't apply to these rules. I don't think its even reasonable to bring them in to this discussion at all-- in fact, they cause very few problems because there's generally plenty of room on a train at terminus. I have never heard or seen a train fill up to capacity at its origin...

Secondly, at CUS all LD trains that I have been on (and that numbers makes up a pretty penny) use seat checks. The conductor hands out the numbers corresponding to the seats... and he hands them out in order. Meaning if the guy in front of you is 19, congrats-- you're 20. Meaning you have a 50/50 chance of getting a window seat and there is no way to better your odds. And then, ignoring seat checks for a moment, getting a window seat is a quite pathetic and dim witted reason to want to shove your way past everybody and start a line an hour before departure. Again, not Amtrak's fault... just rude pax. In fact, it would seem that seat checking is an attempt for Amtrak to eliminate this problem and help take away a few headaches for the crew.

And technically speaking, seat checking like they do in CUS for LD trains IS an assigned boarding technique. And no, many people don't like it. Screw them. For the safety and peace of mind of everybody involved-- some sort of assigned boarding is required and, actually, seems to becoming more and more popular with stations and crew.

I have to disagree with you here. One of the joys for me in riding the train is having a window seat. I think anybody who is on this board would agree that having a window seat makes the trip much more enjoyable. I don' think it is rude to line up early to try to get a window seat, though i agree it would be rude to push past people to get one. For the record, I hate the controlled boarding thing because you can be the 2nd person in line, and if the first person is single, they get the window, and you get the aisle. This has happened to me once or twice. I have posted here before about the boarding procedures at CUS, and I will restate again that these boarding procedures are annoying. What I don't understand is why a train can be prepared in the yard, and rolled into NYP, and then boarded and sent on its way in about 15 minutes but a similar train requires over an hour to do the same thing in Chicago. I understand that NYP is busier, and this necessitates this, but if CUS is to become a hub in the midwest high speed rail system, then their operations are going to have to tighten up quite a bit.

 

[the_traveler]

One of the joys for me in riding the train is having a window seat. I think anybody who is on this board would agree that having a window seat makes the trip much more enjoyable.

I agree - especially on an overnight trip! At least you can lean against the window to sleep at night. It's not too easy to lean against the aisle.

But is is not right to push and shove to "get in line" to get it!

 

[Steve4031]

One of the joys for me in riding the train is having a window seat. I think anybody who is on this board would agree that having a window seat makes the trip much more enjoyable.

I agree - especially on an overnight trip! At least you can lean against the window to sleep at night. It's not too easy to lean against the aisle.

But is is not right to push and shove to "get in line" to get it!

How about if I just walk faster than them without running them over.