Excess Carry-on Baggage Fee Began October 1, 2015

[BCL]

Charging fees for overweight carry on bags is ridiculous. I understand checked bags - there needs to be a deterrent to keep station staff from throwing their backs out when lifting bags over their shoulders and throwing them onto a cart or into the baggage car. But so long as the passenger is carrying their own bag, it shouldn't matter if it weighs 100 lbs.

This seems to be an airline policy that some dolt copied and pasted into Amtrak without understanding the implications weight has on aircraft performance. First, jet fuel is much more expensive than diesel. Next, every pound of payload reduces range which has to be made up in fuel. Sure, trains are affected by weight as well, but even fully loaded passenger trains are lightweight compared to freights. The performance/weight ratio is much further apart.

Really? It seems to me passengers with overweight bags (25lbs+) are the ones least able to lug them up the steps into an Amfleet coach. The employees end up doing the heavy lifting because, again, it is easier to just put it onboard than have a denied boarding situation. Now you'll have to find space or heft it up into the luggage rack and repeat the process in reverse at the passenger's destination. It's also amazing how many people just freely bound up or down the steps, lugging a bag or not. Safety first says use the hand rails and watch your step. Can't do that very well with a 100lbs bag.

Isn't the carry on max weight the same 50 lbs for a standard check in piece?

And yeah - it does sound as if Amtrak employees will be dealing with that weight, in addition to possibly exceeding the rating for some racks. Some passengers are then going to want to place them in the overhead racks/bins, and then that becomes a problem if it's dropped on someone's head.

I've also seen some passengers (not with an obvious disability) who assumed that someone would help with their luggage.

 

[Hal]

Charging fees for overweight carry on bags is ridiculous. I understand checked bags - there needs to be a deterrent to keep station staff from throwing their backs out when lifting bags over their shoulders and throwing them onto a cart or into the baggage car. But so long as the passenger is carrying their own bag, it shouldn't matter if it weighs 100 lbs.

This seems to be an airline policy that some dolt copied and pasted into Amtrak without understanding the implications weight has on aircraft performance. First, jet fuel is much more expensive than diesel. Next, every pound of payload reduces range which has to be made up in fuel. Sure, trains are affected by weight as well, but even fully loaded passenger trains are lightweight compared to freights. The performance/weight ratio is much further apart.

Really? It seems to me passengers with overweight bags (25lbs+) are the ones least able to lug them up the steps into an Amfleet coach. The employees end up doing the heavy lifting because, again, it is easier to just put it onboard than have a denied boarding situation. Now you'll have to find space or heft it up into the luggage rack and repeat the process in reverse at the passenger's destination. It's also amazing how many people just freely bound up or down the steps, lugging a bag or not. Safety first says use the hand rails and watch your step. Can't do that very well with a 100lbs bag.

Isn't the carry on max weight the same 50 lbs for a standard check in piece?

And yeah - it does sound as if Amtrak employees will be dealing with that weight, in addition to possibly exceeding the rating for some racks. Some passengers are then going to want to place them in the overhead racks/bins, and then that becomes a problem if it's dropped on someone's head.

I've also seen some passengers (not with an obvious disability) who assumed that someone would help with their luggage.

They are told that someone will help. And I know of several employees who were injured helping. Also it is not just the luggage racks. Boarding and detraining at low level platforms can mean passengers need help getting them up and down putting them on and off the train.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Last night a pax boarding Coach on the 98 Meteor had about 6 carry on grips and the Attendant as per the book politely informed her she had too much baggage and in the future there would be a penalty. Since they were "small" grips I believe she was allowed to take them on.

 

[Thirdrail7]

Charging fees for overweight carry on bags is ridiculous. I understand checked bags - there needs to be a deterrent to keep station staff from throwing their backs out when lifting bags over their shoulders and throwing them onto a cart or into the baggage car. But so long as the passenger is carrying their own bag, it shouldn't matter if it weighs 100 lbs.

This seems to be an airline policy that some dolt copied and pasted into Amtrak without understanding the implications weight has on aircraft performance. First, jet fuel is much more expensive than diesel. Next, every pound of payload reduces range which has to be made up in fuel. Sure, trains are affected by weight as well, but even fully loaded passenger trains are lightweight compared to freights. The performance/weight ratio is much further apart.

Really? It seems to me passengers with overweight bags (25lbs+) are the ones least able to lug them up the steps into an Amfleet coach. The employees end up doing the heavy lifting because, again, it is easier to just put it onboard than have a denied boarding situation. Now you'll have to find space or heft it up into the luggage rack and repeat the process in reverse at the passenger's destination. It's also amazing how many people just freely bound up or down the steps, lugging a bag or not. Safety first says use the hand rails and watch your step. Can't do that very well with a 100lbs bag.

Isn't the carry on max weight the same 50 lbs for a standard check in piece?

And yeah - it does sound as if Amtrak employees will be dealing with that weight, in addition to possibly exceeding the rating for some racks. Some passengers are then going to want to place them in the overhead racks/bins, and then that becomes a problem if it's dropped on someone's head.

I've also seen some passengers (not with an obvious disability) who assumed that someone would help with their luggage.

To further expand on this matter, remember planes tend to load, fly to their destination and unload. This is not typical when it comes to passenger trains. So, now you have this giant bag that lacks maneuverability as passenger boarding down line board the train. The behemoths typically can't fit into the luggage rack and passengers (as well as crew members) have trouble schlepping them up and down the narrow aisles (and staircases on Superliner equipment). So where do they end up? In the "vacant" area at the end of the coach which actually is for passengers that require special needs, such a wheelchairs or a place for their service animal. While that space may be available right now, four stops down the line, a passenger needs that area. A passenger disembarking with a large bag can also block other movements. These kinds of thing add up to dwell.

I haven't flown in years, but I doubt this kind of stuff occurs on a plane.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I'm all for making people carry and lift their own luggage and then charging them if they cannot do so in a timely and reasonable manner. Over the years I've stopped helping other people with luggage because I've come to the conclusion that the only way they'll ever learn to stop bringing more than they can handle is if the rest of us stop doing it for them. That being said, I don't see why small but dense packers like me should have to pack lighter than usual just because someone who will never touch my bag might not be able to handle it on their own. If I can handle my bags with ease and the train can handle them without issue then it shouldn't matter how heavy they are, at least in my view.

 

[BCL]

Charging fees for overweight carry on bags is ridiculous. I understand checked bags - there needs to be a deterrent to keep station staff from throwing their backs out when lifting bags over their shoulders and throwing them onto a cart or into the baggage car. But so long as the passenger is carrying their own bag, it shouldn't matter if it weighs 100 lbs.

This seems to be an airline policy that some dolt copied and pasted into Amtrak without understanding the implications weight has on aircraft performance. First, jet fuel is much more expensive than diesel. Next, every pound of payload reduces range which has to be made up in fuel. Sure, trains are affected by weight as well, but even fully loaded passenger trains are lightweight compared to freights. The performance/weight ratio is much further apart.

Really? It seems to me passengers with overweight bags (25lbs+) are the ones least able to lug them up the steps into an Amfleet coach. The employees end up doing the heavy lifting because, again, it is easier to just put it onboard than have a denied boarding situation. Now you'll have to find space or heft it up into the luggage rack and repeat the process in reverse at the passenger's destination. It's also amazing how many people just freely bound up or down the steps, lugging a bag or not. Safety first says use the hand rails and watch your step. Can't do that very well with a 100lbs bag.

Isn't the carry on max weight the same 50 lbs for a standard check in piece?

And yeah - it does sound as if Amtrak employees will be dealing with that weight, in addition to possibly exceeding the rating for some racks. Some passengers are then going to want to place them in the overhead racks/bins, and then that becomes a problem if it's dropped on someone's head.

I've also seen some passengers (not with an obvious disability) who assumed that someone would help with their luggage.

To further expand on this matter, remember planes tend to load, fly to their destination and unload. This is not typical when it comes to passenger trains. So, now you have this giant bag that lacks maneuverability as passenger boarding down line board the train. The behemoths typically can't fit into the luggage rack and passengers (as well as crew members) have trouble schlepping them up and down the narrow aisles (and staircases on Superliner equipment). So where do they end up? In the "vacant" area at the end of the coach which actually is for passengers that require special needs, such a wheelchairs or a place for their service animal. While that space may be available right now, four stops down the line, a passenger needs that area. A passenger disembarking with a large bag can also block other movements. These kinds of thing add up to dwell.

I haven't flown in years, but I doubt this kind of stuff occurs on a plane.

Run out of storage space in the cabin of an airliner, and the crew will start to "gate check" items (no extra charge) that meet the carry on guidelines but can't be stored in the cabin. And yeah it takes time to handle this. In many ways I think airline flight crew employees hate the charges for check in baggage since it makes their job tougher. Many use carry on simply because they don't want the airlines handling their stuff. Then as more passengers bring carry on to avoid the fees, they have to deal with passengers fighting over available overhead bin space.

 

[crescent2]

These allowances per person seem extremely generous to me, plus many items don't count. I've never noticed anyone with nearly that much luggage. Those two larger size pieces are BIG honkin' bags.

My daughter, SIL, and their two middle-school-age children just spent 15 days traveling through western Canada, and they didn't take much, if any, more than that for the entire family. And they aren't light packers.

However, I can imagine some problems with enforcement, especially until the kinks are worked out.

This is very, very low on my list of "Things I wish Amtrak had not changed."

 

[neroden]

All I care about is that they accept medically-required-due-to-disability equipment as free excess baggage. For me and my fiancee on a long trip, that's a CPAP and my unfortunately-necessary bag of food (which I really wish I didn't have to carry); plus the wheelchair which we check. For some friends I know, it would be 2 CPAPs and leg pumps for a leg disorder. For another friend with a really nasty disease, it's the *cooler's worth* of refrigeration-required prescription medications.

This stuff adds up fast, and we all frankly wish we didn't have to carry it, but we do. Which is why charging for it would add insult to injury. It's illegal discrimination under the ADA to charge passengers extra to carry this stuff which they absolutely would not carry but-for the disability -- so I hope Amtrak trains its conductors properly regarding the ADA. Since the policy as published is illegal.

 

[crescent2]

I'd be very surprised if they counted medical or medically necessary items against the limit. Some baby items are probably exempted, too. Even airlines exempt some items, and their carry-on sizes and numbers aren't nearly as generous.

 

[VentureForth]

Well, y'all have answered my question quite acceptably. I still have a problem with what to do about folks travelling between non-checked baggage end points.

 

[crescent2]

Yes, that's certainly something air travelers don't come up against. But Amtrak's baggage allowance is still so super-generous that I just can't fault them with it. Each person can bring on 150 pounds of luggage! That's a LOT even if no more can be checked. Families traveling in a private vehicle wouldn't have room for that much (each) if there were several people in the car.

It will be interesting to see how well or consistently it is enforced, assuming anyone actually tries to bring more than that. :unsure:

I don't really mean to take the position of being the defender of Amtrak on this issue, and it's not likely to ever affect me or anyone I'd be traveling with. It's just way down on my list of things I wish they hadn't done. If it in any way helps appease those in power who are trying to nickel and dime Amtrak out of business, it's one of the more harmless cuts imo.

 

[willem]

This is very, very low on my list of "Things I wish Amtrak had not changed."

Well put.

 

[Hal]

It will be interesting to see how well or consistently it is enforced, assuming anyone actually tries to bring more than that. :unsure:

it will be interesting. They may be serious about enforcing the policy. They are issuing digital scales to conductors. They say the APD is going to back up conductors enforcement.

 

[Hal]

It will be interesting to see how well or consistently it is enforced, assuming anyone actually tries to bring more than that. :unsure:

They will have to back up crew against passenger complaints if it is to work.

 

[NorthShore]

So, what I've learned from reading through this entire thread is that the third (obviously oversized) bag I carried aboard on my overnight, long distance round trip to visit New York was Amtrak illegal. Why? Safety concerns, of course!

Because a quirky, eccentric entertainment oriented chap wearing a pork pie hat (and looking just a tad like Buster Keaton) who holds a big bright fuchsia colored sack containing two small pillows (one for the neck/head, one for the back); a lightweight blanket (which makes his overnight in coach a little less uncomfortable); a paper bag with a deli sandwich lunch, two twenty ounce bottles of Pepsi, and a pair of loafers that are more comfortable to slip on and walk about the train surely make him a likely surreptitious terrorist. This, despite it all getting quickly unpacked and set easily upon/at his seat once aboard, for all to clearly see.

However, come October 1, it will be perfectly acceptable for said bag to come aboard, and I will no longer be in violation of policy, despite the outside possibility of exploding pillows contained therein, which will (naturally) release feathers all about the train; tickling every last passenger to death.

After all, as far as Amtrak is concerned, THAT will totally be worth the extra twenty bucks!

 

[Peter KG6LSE]

Il bet with in a week there will be a ADA violation ...

The Staff on the train are already in some cases over worked . The last thing they need is more to enforce with so many laws.

Does the APD and staff KNOW the ADA. From my few encounters they are as educated as a random person on the street.

I expect amtrak with its ADA station problems, to make up for it with really good staff.

Often good staff can mitigate some of the issues..

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

I never have been able to figure out why people when they travel, especially on holiday, have to bring their entire household inventory with them. My rule of travel is I take only what I can carry on my own and ideally as the trip unfolds, the weight and volume of the take along stuff diminishes as well.

Therefore I find the policy to be VERY fair and reasonable and hopefully it will mean more room for everyone in the carry on storage areas and less stumbling over grips and other stuff (not counting folks) hanging in the aisles.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

You know who doesn't only take what they can carry? Grandmothers. Lets teach 'em a lesson they'll never forget!

[/s]

 

[AmtrakBlue]

You know who doesn't only take what they can carry? Grandmothers. Lets teach 'em a lesson they'll never forget!

[/s]

Hey, I resemble that remark.

 

[Thirdrail7]

I somehow doubt that many crew members are really going to push this once the passengers are on board unless

a) it is particularly egregious,

b) management is lurking

or

c) the passengers are transferring.

 

[Anderson]

I somehow doubt that many crew members are really going to push this once the passengers are on board unless

a) it is particularly egregious,

b) management is lurking

or

c) the passengers are transferring.

You raise a good point on "C"...albeit not quite how I think you meant it. I fully expect this to turn into a disaster in Chicago; in particular, I don't think someone boarding in Los Angeles is going to be thrilled at the idea of being slapped with a baggage fee two days into their trip. Add in ADA stuff (not to mention Chicago's "different" [security, anyone?] and occasionally out-of-policy [Metropolitan Lounge comes to mind] practices which make me occasionally ponder patronizing Metra for that last chunk of a trip) and that's actually going to be a problem.

To lay out a situation, let's assume you have an occasional traveler (a twice-a-year cross-country-ish LD rider). They don't take Amtrak a ton, but they do take it to visit the relatives. Well, they board in Denver heading for Washington. Nobody bothers to hit them with the baggage fee or press them to check anything (and let's assume that the "extra" bag is a small one of Christmas presents, or that they acquire a snack bag as an extra "bag" in Chicago). They get to Chicago and get told to either check one of their bags to DC or pony up $20 halfway through their trip.

For an uninitiated traveler, that is just obnoxious. For a loosely-informed but reasonably seasoned Amtrak traveler, if this happens in Chicago then this is yet another bit of Chicago's insanity and if the traveler has seen Chicago employees make up a policy on the spot before their next question is likely to imply that the employee is looking to pocket $20. They'd be wrong, but given Chicago's reputation I wouldn't be surprised.

And of course, I have to slide around and ask for a definition of "bag" (e.g. does a plastic bag with a pack of jerky in it clipped to my backpack count as a separate bag?)...something which I would not be surprised to see every employee outside of Chicago come up with one definition and Chicago come up with another.

For a short version, if Amtrak is going to do this then there probably needs to be a sort of "statute of limitations" on hitting someone with it (e.g. if you're not dinged either at your boarding station or on the first reserved Amtrak train of your trip then you're not going to get hit on the last leg of it) or something else to avoid this turning into a case where you have two de facto baggage policies depending on whether you pass through Chicago or not.

As to the issue that Thirdrail raised directly...

A) is fair enough;

B) and C) are a problem from the standpoint of inconsistency. The issue isn't so much if 5-10% of folks "get away with" an extra bag...it is if 90% do and getting caught is a rarity (basically...think the speed limit on many interstates).

 

[Thirdrail7]

How you phrased is how I meant it Anderson. If you know a passenger is transferring (which raises the chances that some other crew will charge them,) you'll nip it in the bud first. This keeps you from being taken to task when the passenger states "the other crew didn't charge me."

Another factor is the rapport some crew members have with each other. If you know the next crew is not going to say anything, then you won't either.

The bottom line is things will boil down to consistency and unfortunately, interpretation. The enforcement guide that was printed gave out pretty specific examples of what is a bag, cooler, carry on, etc. However, there is always that person that sees things literally. There is always that person that sees things figuratively.

You can't write a rule for every single eventuality. Well, you can but the rule book would be as thick as a circa 80's Webster Dictionary. :giggle:

 

[AmtrakLKL]

You can't write a rule for every single eventuality. Well, you can but the rule book would be as thick as a circa 80's Webster Dictionary. :giggle:

True, but railroads come about as close as possible to having a rule for every situation and when something not covered happens you can bet a new rule will be written post haste. If you look in my grip of required documents you will find several circa 80's sized Webster Dictionaries.

 

[fillyjonk]

I'm thinking now for "long" trips (Christmas break), I'm gonna have to drive the extra hour and leave out of Longview (which checks baggage) rather than Mineola (which does not). Or ship some of my clothes to the place I'm gonna be ahead of time. Bummer.

Maybe it's time to get a Kindle or similar so I don't cart books with me on the trip.

I don't even know how heavy my typical carry-on bags are. All I know is I take the "permitted" two, plus a purse, and I can lift them without troubles. But I'm pretty strong and I could see my suitcase reaching 50 lbs., especially with winter clothing in there....I wonder how strictly it will be applied; will there be a scale and if you're at 52 lbs. you have to open up and take some stuff out, or will it just be the people doing as I once saw some people doing, wheeling a filled tall trashcan on to the train using a dolly, who get smacked with the fee/requirement they take stuff out?

 

[NorthShore]

Before I boarded a VIA train from Toronto to Montreal (by way - see what I did there - of Ottawa) last year, all passengers with luggage were required to have bags weighed. Since I was within weight, but had three bags to carry aboard, I was offered an option of either checking one of my pieces (on tomorrow's direct train) for free and picking it up at Gare Central or paying an extra fee to have it tagged as extra baggage and carry it aboard. Since the window of pickup for packages in Montreal was so narrow the next day, I shelled out the extra fare with resignation. (Almost as much as my ticket, itself.)

This is, ultimately, the only way in which I can see the new policy being effectively enforced, with consistency and fairness.

Otherwise, I really think it is a matter of why not leave well enough alone.