Excess Carry-on Baggage Fee Began October 1, 2015

[Anderson]

I just thought this through, and I see a few issues:
(1) For the most part, airlines do seem to allow you to reserve a baggage allowance in advance. Amtrak not doing this on the website is going to trigger problems, especially if someone doesn't have the cash at the moment (based on what I've seen, you have a reasonable number of passengers who might simply not have the resources to pay a "surprise" $40).

(2) There's an obvious issue with respect to, for example, 48/448 and 49/449 (or indeed Shuttle-Regional-LD connections...though the LSL is more obvious): Does someone get dinged at BOS and again at ALB?

(2b) Also with #2, what happens with a change-of-crew?

(3) Even if the policy doesn't dictate that CPAP bags and the like are exempt, I fully expect to see them be deemed exempt. If nothing else, failing to do so would invite an ADA class action suit.

(4) Back to the revenue estimate, Amtrak seems to be expecting that revenue will, on LD trains, roughly fall in line with airline per-passenger revenue. That would kick out up to about $20m on the high end. Lower estimates would probably be accounting for the fact that (1) most pax don't violate this limit and (2) many LD pax are actually short(er)-distance rides not prone to this.

(4b) An interesting question does emerge about this popping up on state-sponsored trains (or, indeed, on 850/851 since that is now not an Amtrak train). This is interesting because of an implied element of such a policy (namely, that you can now carry on additional bags period). I can definitely see this backfiring in some cases.

(5) And of course, as noted above there's the question of "oversize" baggage...

 

[BCL]

If they're really going to use those moronic luggage sizers for carryons then maybe it IS time for Amtrak to go away, or at least their management. One inch out disqualifying may make sense on an airplane, but not on a train.

Many stations have Amtrak luggage sizers. At least some of the ones Amtrak uses are made by a company called Visiontron. This looks like the one I've seen at the Emeryville station.

This one is a model BSOESC22149-ST, open-ended sizer with scale.

http://www.visiontron.com/prod-airline-baggage-sizer.asp

 

[Anderson]

RVR does, IIRC, have a sizer. I know they have a scale there...this was the object of an absurd luggage fiasco on a trip with a friend about five years ago: He was traveling home from college and the station agent first forced him to repack bags to get under the 50 lbs limit [ok, that's fine] and sold him a box to help redistribute the weight...but she also made a rather stupendous stink about where he could or couldn't pack his books, notes, etc. and what could/couldn't go in checked luggage versus onboard [which was just absurd]. The fact that we ran into an author who was longtime friends with one of his favorite authors (and who is one of mine) saved Amtrak's arse on that trip.

 

[jis]

Isn't it the case that Amtrak is not proposing to charge for any of the basic baggage allowance? All it is talking of is more systematically charging for excess baggage that is beyond the rather generous basic baggage allowance. So this is not at all like the airlines charging for anything that is checked in, or charging for all hand baggage or any such.

Airlines have charged heftily for excess baggage since the early days of commercial aviation. That is nothing new.

So a question for those that are up in arms.... Is it your position then that Amtrak should not charge for excess baggage but simply ban excess baggage? Or is it your position that Amtrak should not have any baggage policy at all and let anyone bring on whatever they want to without any hindrance? Afterall, what is the point of having a baggage policy if it is not going to be enforced in any way.

The concept of baggage tickets stating how much excess baggage has been charged for how many pieces of what weight for what itinerary is a well known one that has been used by airlines for ever. Why would it be so difficult for Amtrak to do the same - just for the excess baggage mind you. Not for the basic allowance, which is quite generous.

Methinks some people here are going a bit off the rails on this one. just IMHO.

 

[CelticWhisper]

So I'm a little fuzzy on how this is going to play out. I live in Chicago and commonly travel to various destinations along the NEC. This means the Cap to DC and then a NER or Acela up 'n' over to wherever I'm headed.

If I'm sporting a backpack and a 30" roller case, I figure I'll have no trouble on the Cap since I'll be in a sleeper. However, is the 30" roller case going to be a problem on the Acela? Will I get charged for that?

 

[jis]

30" roller Case could be a problem on Acela since it is over the permitted size of 28x22x11.

Strictly speaking, there is no exception to the baggage rule for Sleepers either, so it could be a problem as a carry on on the Cap too.

OK guys, dion't chew me out. I am just quoting the rules such as they are.

I am actually curious on whether you can pay a single excess baggage fee to cover both legs of the itinerary. Typically on airlines you can for checked baggage, and I have no experience with airlines that charge for carry ons in any form. I have not found this matter exactly spelled out in the new policy.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

So a question for those that are up in arms....

Looks like a calm and reasonable discussion to me. Which "up in arms" posts are you referring to?

Is it your position then that Amtrak should not charge for excess baggage but simply ban excess baggage? Or is it your position that Amtrak should not have any baggage policy at all and let anyone bring on whatever they want to without any hindrance? Afterall, what is the point of having a baggage policy if it is not going to be enforced in any way.

My position is that...

Many Amtrak passengers have benefited from Amtrak's lax enforcement of luggage rules for many years now.

Many Amtrak passengers greatly appreciate the ability to bring whatever they want so long as they can carry it.

Many Amtrak passengers have been conditioned over the years to see this lax enforcement as a perk over other travel.

Amtrak's costs are not seriously impacted by a few extra bags here so long as they don't hinder or prevent normal operation.

If Amtrak chooses to assimilate the airline business model it will become harder for them to leverage their inherent strengths.

 

[amamba]

I am just wondering how this is going to be practically enforced on the NEC.

Do the conductors even have credit card scanners any more? My understanding is that the iPhone scanners no longer have the capability to process payments as they tell people to call 1800 USA RAIL if there is an issue with the tickets and don't process upgrades/ticket purchases on board.

I'm also thinking about the folks who utilize red caps in NYP and other stations, like WAS, etc. So you have a person riding from WAS to KIN for example. They can't check baggage because KIN does not have checked baggage. Or someone riding KIN to PVD. PVD has checked baggage but only on the 66/67 so for all intents and purposes it doesn't really make sense to check bags if you are taking a daytime regional or acela. The redcap loads you up with one bag over the limit. Is the redcap charging you for the excess bag? is the conductor going to charge for the excess bag? How do they even know that you have an excess bag when they see the pile of suitcases that the end of the FC car becomes on some sunday afternoons?

I personally don't see it being actively enforced on parts of the NEC as a practical matter.

I also have an issue with the fact that it is not something that can be applied fairly across the entire amtrak universe since many stations do not offer checked baggage and it seems like a tax on those stations too small to offer it.

 

[Ispolkom]

I'm confused by Devil's Advocate's post. Either "many Amtrak passengers" carry excess luggage, so there are lots of extra bags, or there are "a few extra bags," in which case the new policy won't affect many people. I don't see how you can have it both ways.

Me, I don't think that many people now actually carry on more than the new luggage limits. Sure, I've seen it happen, but the fact that I remember it showed that it's an unusual occurrence.

Two suitcases plus two carry-on bags totaling 150 lbs. per person seems pretty generous to me, and I personally would be hard put to carry more than four pieces of luggage myself.

 

[amamba]

I'm confused by Devil's Advocate's post. Either "many Amtrak passengers" carry excess luggage, so there are lots of extra bags, or there are "a few extra bags," in which case the new policy won't affect many people. I don't see how you can have it both ways.

Me, I don't think that many people now actually carry on more than the new luggage limits. Sure, I've seen it happen, but the fact that I remember it showed that it's an unusual occurrence.

Two suitcases plus two carry-on bags totaling 150 lbs. per person seems pretty generous to me, and I personally would be hard put to carry more than four pieces of luggage myself.

You are assuming everyone has checked baggage access.

 

[PVD]

On a non checked baggage train (or stations) it would only be 2 carry-ons, and 2 personal items.

 

[Ispolkom]

According to post #21, the maximum dimensions for a "carry-on" are 28" x 22" x 14" and can weigh 50 lbs. I'm reasonably certain that's larger than any suitcase I own, and at 61 linear inches, it's not much smaller than the maximum size "bag" you can check (75 linear inches).

So you can carry on two suitcase-sized "carry-on" items, and two "personal items," each of which are about as large as the largest carry-on bag I own. If you are at a station with checked luggage, you get another two suitcases "checked bags."

I still think that if you're carrying on more than 150 lbs. of luggage per person, you probably need to re-think your packing strategy. YMMV, of course.

 

[jis]

In response to amamba, how many people actually try to carry on two almost full size suitcases and two hand baggages on an NEC Regional anyway? Even if they are being daft enough to try to go to KIN to visit the traveler?

The carry on allowance is pretty much an amount of baggage that at least I could not reasonably drag along myself.

I think the issues will be more with nitpicks like a bag 30" long not meeting 28", which will probably be ignored in many cases, rather than one involving 3 carry-ons and 3 personal items instead of 2+2 and such. How many people really bring on more than 4 pieces anyway? Even on the NEC? For the few that do I don't think it will be that hard to manage.

Clearly if the Conductors are made in charge of enforcing this they will carry some means of effecting the charge, whether it be through some sort of POS device or by simply scanning/typing in the details of the credit card on their iPhone device and having the charge handled at the backend. We don;t know enough about how this will be done, but it does not appear to be an insurmountable problem since they do carry an extremely capable device these days to scan tickets anyway.

 

[neroden]

I certainly wouldn't be bringing on extra luggage if I wasn't absolutely forced to for medical reasons.

 

[PVD]

Typical airline carry-on restriction would be around 22 inches, 45 total linear, so the allowance is somewhat more generous. It would be nice to see baggage handling on some of the long day trips where someone may be going on vacation, and it will put a crimp on some of the "stock up the college dorm" crowd, but the limits themselves are not out of line. Implementation, enforcement, and consistency will be were Amtrak will likely struggle. But consistency on many fronts seems to be a constant topic on this board.

 

[BCL]

Typical airline carry-on restriction would be around 22 inches, 45 total linear, so the allowance is somewhat more generous. It would be nice to see baggage handling on some of the long day trips where someone may be going on vacation, and it will put a crimp on some of the "stock up the college dorm" crowd, but the limits themselves are not out of line. Implementation, enforcement, and consistency will be were Amtrak will likely struggle. But consistency on many fronts seems to be a constant topic on this board.

However, the airline restrictions are supposed to be with wheels, and the common "carry on" sized luggage from just a few years ago won't fit in the typical luggage sizers for most of the legacy carriers. Southwest and Alaska have a more generous size (24"). I haven't seen anyone turned away though, unless it's an absolutely full flight. Typically they'll gate check something after a cursory eyeball check of the size. Most of the airline personnel seem to think it's crazy that the sizes are so small now, even though the overhead bin sizes haven't really gone down.

I have one piece of luggage that might barely fit into Amtrak's maximum carry on size. However, I'll almost always check that one in.

 

[the_traveler]

In response to amamba, how many people actually try to carry on two almost full size suitcases and two hand baggages on an NEC Regional anyway? Even if they are being daft enough to try to go to KIN to visit the traveler?

How about the_traveler making his pilgrimage from KIN to PDX for a month? :huh: Going out, he can check his bags from NYP on the LSL, SWC and CS, but he can't carry the extra 2 bags (that someone from NYC can check) on the Regional from KIN to NYP. Returning back east, he can check the 2 extra bags in PDX to WAS (on the CS, CZ and CL) but can not get them on the Regional from WAS to KIN without paying the fee (something others on the SAME Regional riding to BAL, WIL, PHL, NYP, PVD or BOS do not have to pay). I do not see how that is fair!

 

[CelticWhisper]

30" roller Case could be a problem on Acela since it is over the permitted size of 28x22x11.

Strictly speaking, there is no exception to the baggage rule for Sleepers either, so it could be a problem as a carry on on the Cap too.

OK guys, dion't chew me out. I am just quoting the rules such as they are.

I am actually curious on whether you can pay a single excess baggage fee to cover both legs of the itinerary. Typically on airlines you can for checked baggage, and I have no experience with airlines that charge for carry ons in any form. I have not found this matter exactly spelled out in the new policy.

Both good points. I did call Amtrak customer service and verify that at least for my upcoming trip on 8/17, it wouldn't be an issue, so I'm not worried yet.

That said, what do they do on multiple-leg trips where some have checked baggage and others do not? Even if I checked it on the Cap, the only way to PVD from WAS is either a NER or an Acela, neither of which offer checked baggage service, so I'd be hosed.

 

[PVD]

The airlines (except Southwest) are charging regular coach (non elite or special credit card) customers for checked bags. They have also been getting stricter on charging for gate checks on carry-ons that are out of spec. It is a huge revenue source for them. JetBlue, long a first checked bag free airline has bellied up to the trough. Why shouldn't they? I don't want to pay for something I don't have to, but who ever thought "fairness" has anything to do with business.

 

[PVD]

The connecting to a non baggage train from a baggage handling train is an area where they will need to work things out. If I go Chicago to NY on the CL, the normal connection is to a NER, but baggage can be checked through on 66/67, but inconveniently. If I go LSL its checked bag.

 

[jebr]

In response to amamba, how many people actually try to carry on two almost full size suitcases and two hand baggages on an NEC Regional anyway? Even if they are being daft enough to try to go to KIN to visit the traveler?

How about the_traveler making his pilgrimage from KIN to PDX for a month? :huh: Going out, he can check his bags from NYP on the LSL, SWC and CS, but he can't carry the extra 2 bags (that someone from NYC can check) on the Regional from KIN to NYP. Returning back east, he can check the 2 extra bags in PDX to WAS (on the CS, CZ and CL) but can not get them on the Regional from WAS to KIN without paying the fee (something others on the SAME Regional riding to BAL, WIL, PHL, NYP, PVD or BOS do not have to pay). I do not see how that is fair!

Then, as the policies are written, the new policy is actually better. The current policy leaves it where you only get the 2 carry-on bags and 2 personal items, and earlier this year it was 2 carry-on bags and unlimited personal items within a certain (smaller) range of items. Under the new policy the passenger still gets the 2 carry-on items and 2 personal items for free, along with any required medical devices (per ADA.) But now, if they want to carry on more, instead of having to worry about whether the attendant or conductor will allow the extra bags or not (even if they almost always would,) they know that they can bring them on, just for a fee.

Now, that being said, there is a difference in baggage policies between stations without checked bag service and those with checked baggage service. However, it's not the only difference between stations. Some have first class waiting areas, but most don't. Some are very nice stations with plenty of comfortable seating, where some are nothing more than a bus shelter (and anything in between.) Passengers boarding at an unstaffed station can't pay with cash without being hit with a penalty, where passengers at a staffed station can (by using the ticket counter instead of paying on board.) Even on an airline, if I take certain planes I have to gate check my luggage instead of bringing it on-board, even if it meets the carry-on size requirement. I don't know if there's small airports where there's a limited set of amenities for passengers (I've never used one), but there may be differences there. I don't think it's particularly unfair to say that certain stations don't have checked baggage service and just leave it at that (instead of making rules of exemptions for carry on items for certain passengers boarding at certain stations.) Of course, ideally trainside baggage check (which they trialed and when I used it at MTP seemed to be very nice) would be offered at most, if not all, stations. But until that happens, passengers boarding at stations without checked baggage service will be limited to the same baggage rules as they always have been (or, at least, since the last change on the website.) They now will also have the guaranteed option of bringing up to two additional bags on board (for a fee) instead of having to hope that the conductor or attendant would let them (after all, the website has said for some time that the carry-on luggage policy is "strictly enforced," which to a first-time rider means that they shouldn't expect to bring more than what the official allotment is on board.)

 

[JoeBas]

I'm confused by Devil's Advocate's post. Either "many Amtrak passengers" carry excess luggage, so there are lots of extra bags, or there are "a few extra bags," in which case the new policy won't affect many people. I don't see how you can have it both ways.

Me, I don't think that many people now actually carry on more than the new luggage limits. Sure, I've seen it happen, but the fact that I remember it showed that it's an unusual occurrence.

Two suitcases plus two carry-on bags totaling 150 lbs. per person seems pretty generous to me, and I personally would be hard put to carry more than four pieces of luggage myself.

You are assuming everyone has checked baggage access.

Furthermore, you're assuming that everyone has put their bags into the sizer and come out clean on the other side.

That viewliner cubbyhole carries a HECK of a lot more space than what goes into the sizer.

 

[jis]

But the policy is the sizer. So either the policy can be changed special casing Viewliners or Sleepers or some such, or it can be left as is and enforced. there is no point in having a policy that is mostly ignored.

As for stations with no checked baggage service, they are already doing much better than the zillions of communities with no station at all to board themselves or thei luggage onto a train. So they get to carry a few fewer bags, so what? Amtrak journeys are not meant to be a substitute for Allied Van lines anyway.

 

[BCL]

Passengers boarding at an unstaffed station can't pay with cash without being hit with a penalty, where passengers at a staffed station can (by using the ticket counter instead of paying on board.)

Not exactly. The policy is that if there's no means to buy a ticket at a station (ticket office or Quik-Trak) then a ticket can be purchased from a conductor with no surcharge. On my Capitol Corridor route there are at least three stations where this can be done (OAC, HAY, SCC), and I did it once myself to see if it could be done. There's no penalty for cash to my knowledge.

Now I suppose if there's only Quik-Trak at a station, then there's no means to pay cash without a penalty. The machines don't take cash and there will be the penalty for buying tickets on board.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I'm confused by Devil's Advocate's post. Either "many Amtrak passengers" carry excess luggage, so there are lots of extra bags, or there are "a few extra bags," in which case the new policy won't affect many people. I don't see how you can have it both ways.

Me, I don't think that many people now actually carry on more than the new luggage limits. Sure, I've seen it happen, but the fact that I remember it showed that it's an unusual occurrence.

Two suitcases plus two carry-on bags totaling 150 lbs. per person seems pretty generous to me, and I personally would be hard put to carry more than four pieces of luggage myself.

You are assuming everyone has checked baggage access.

Furthermore, you're assuming that everyone has put their bags into the sizer and come out clean on the other side.

Even further still, you're apparently assuming this is a one time event that ends precisely where it began. My money is on size and weight restrictions becoming stricter over time with more and more people eventually running afoul of rules and having to pay increasingly severe surcharges. It's possible that Amtrak will not take this any further than already described, but if the airlines are any indication then Amtrak customers are likely to have several rounds of additional revenue squeezing ahead of them.