"Evaluating McCain and Obama on travel issues"

[Montanan]

Well the first thing I am going to order restored is the Desert Wind (in my dreams)- but in reality what I'll have Congress draft up a bill stating that I am going to give Amtrak every penny it needs to be a profitable enterprise- with the stipulation that the increase service dramatically.

You've got my vote, then! My very first train ride, back as a little kid, was on a Union Pacific train traversing part of what became the Desert Wind route.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Well the first thing I am going to order restored is the Desert Wind (in my dreams)- but in reality what I'll have Congress draft up a bill stating that I am going to give Amtrak every penny it needs to be a profitable enterprise- with the stipulation that the increase service dramatically.

You've got my vote, then! My very first train ride, back as a little kid, was on a Union Pacific train traversing part of what became the Desert Wind route.

LoL... but several things would have to fall into place in order for me to become President... And I'm not saying what.

 

[zoltan]

See these links : Take a ride aboard the Olympian.
Tour the Olympian Hiawatha.

Streamliner Schedule for the Olympian Hi, circa July 1956.

Stylish Hiawatha was Queen of the Milwaukee Road.

Amtrak's North Coast Hi, from Everything dot com.

Some Hiawatha photos.

An article on the Twin Cities Hi.

A summary of the Olympian Hi.

Another article on the Olympian Hi.

NationMaster article on the Hiawathas.

See also The Milwaukee Road, by August Derleth (recently reprinted courtesy of the University of Iowa Press ) , and also The Hiawatha Story, by Jim Scribbins (recently reprinted by the University of Minnesota Press).

Thank you for these! Oh, for the days when tv hadn't dumbed everyone's attention span down, and you could have advertisements with text of this volume.

It's a shame that such pride and passion are so completely lacking in modern train design. Train design ought to aim to make people love traveling by train; to give an experience as far separated from road and air travel as to be unrecognisable to someone used to either.

It seems a logic that current railway management over all of the world railways that i've experienced haven't managed to grasp, that a well designed train interior is a relatively cheap way of enhancing the experience of passengers, and through that, the reputation of rail travel.

Also, it's a great shame that the low cost touralux sleepers, an americanisation of the couchette idea, i suppose, have gone from the railway, as they'd be great for a traveler on a tight budget, like me.

 

[access bob]

It's a shame that such pride and passion are so completely lacking in modern train design. Train design ought to aim to make people love traveling by train; to give an experience as far separated from road and air travel as to be unrecognisable to someone used to either.
It seems a logic that current railway management over all of the world railways that i've experienced haven't managed to grasp, that a well designed train interior is a relatively cheap way of enhancing the experience of passengers, and through that, the reputation of rail travel.

Also, it's a great shame that the low cost touralux sleepers, an americanisation of the couchette idea, i suppose, have gone from the railway, as they'd be great for a traveler on a tight budget, like me.

I have ridden the Broadway Limited when it was PRR but I have also ridden the PRR "Buffalo Day Express"

same thing the East Coast Champion, and the Gulf Coast Special.

there were some very fine trains, and then there were the others! I once described Amtrak as the holiday inn on rails.

the best surprise was no surprise.... uniformly adequate.

yes the top name trains are no longer creme de la creme, but then all the rest were much better.

the Buffalo Day Express a single E unit, and a couple dirty P70 day coaches no food no nutthing and stop at every milk crate turned on end and someone standing on it. I've been on city buses faster, and cleaner.

then there was the train locally known as the "6 O,clock rediculous" actually left at 5:59 one engine one coach and slower than walking.

yes I watched the Afternoon congressional with 2 GG1s on the front blasting thru at 100+, but I could usually only afford a train of MP-54 that barely rated a number and you could only talk at station stops it was so noisy..

sometimes Amtrak seems like a great train.

Bob

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

It's a shame that such pride and passion are so completely lacking in modern train design. Train design ought to aim to make people love traveling by train; to give an experience as far separated from road and air travel as to be unrecognisable to someone used to either.
It seems a logic that current railway management over all of the world railways that i've experienced haven't managed to grasp, that a well designed train interior is a relatively cheap way of enhancing the experience of passengers, and through that, the reputation of rail travel.

Also, it's a great shame that the low cost touralux sleepers, an americanisation of the couchette idea, i suppose, have gone from the railway, as they'd be great for a traveler on a tight budget, like me.

I have ridden the Broadway Limited when it was PRR but I have also ridden the PRR "Buffalo Day Express"

same thing the East Coast Champion, and the Gulf Coast Special.

there were some very fine trains, and then there were the others! I once described Amtrak as the holiday inn on rails.

the best surprise was no surprise.... uniformly adequate.

yes the top name trains are no longer creme de la creme, but then all the rest were much better.

the Buffalo Day Express a single E unit, and a couple dirty P70 day coaches no food no nutthing and stop at every milk crate turned on end and someone standing on it. I've been on city buses faster, and cleaner.

then there was the train locally known as the "6 O,clock rediculous" actually left at 5:59 one engine one coach and slower than walking.

yes I watched the Afternoon congressional with 2 GG1s on the front blasting thru at 100+, but I could usually only afford a train of MP-54 that barely rated a number and you could only talk at station stops it was so noisy..

sometimes Amtrak seems like a great train.

Bob

To those of us who grew up on the Superliners, and never seen the "golden days" I find that trains can be very different. Perhaps not as different as the older trains- but certainly they have far more character than airlines.

The CL for instance is usually quiet, collected, and relaxing.

The EB is more exciting, a little more hectic, more fun.

The Pennsylvanian Is a little bit dirtier and is tiring- it seems to go on forever and never getting anywhere until Philly when it becomes a NEC train.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Unfortunately the climb down into Butte from the east is probably gone forever, but a routing through Helena could still happen.

I believe the table of primary census areas indicates that the gerater Helena area has more than double the population of the greater Butte area, so if it has to be one or the other, that reroute probably makes sense from the perspective of serving the population centers anyway.

Does this imply that Butte could serve as a terminal for some train that didn't continue beyond Butte, with track in some direction other than the east, though?

 

[sky12065]

I once described Amtrak as the holiday inn on rails.Bob

Do you now call the high speed rail trains the "Holiday Inn Express" on rails? If so I hope they serve those tasty cinnamon rolls! YUMMM!

 

[GG-1]

I once described Amtrak as the holiday inn on rails.Bob

Do you now call the high speed rail trains the "Holiday Inn Express" on rails? If so I hope they serve those tasty cinnamon rolls! YUMMM!

Hmnnn I think Amtrak meals are much better, and Amtrak provides much better sevice.

Aloha

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I once described Amtrak as the holiday inn on rails.Bob

Do you now call the high speed rail trains the "Holiday Inn Express" on rails? If so I hope they serve those tasty cinnamon rolls! YUMMM!

Hmnnn I think Amtrak meals are much better, and Amtrak provides much better sevice.

Aloha

Cinny buns might sell well in the diner for breakfast or the CCC...

 

[Montanan]

Unfortunately the climb down into Butte from the east is probably gone forever, but a routing through Helena could still happen.

I believe the table of primary census areas indicates that the gerater Helena area has more than double the population of the greater Butte area, so if it has to be one or the other, that reroute probably makes sense from the perspective of serving the population centers anyway.

Does this imply that Butte could serve as a terminal for some train that didn't continue beyond Butte, with track in some direction other than the east, though?

Yeah, while most of western Montana is rapidly gaining population these days, Butte's population has been stagnant for decades, and is probably only about half of its peak a century ago.

Personally, I'm not expecting any new passenger trains in Montana for a very long time, but service to Butte is even less likely than that. I suppose you'd have to revive the Union Pacific's old Butte Special, and I most definitely don't see that ever happening.

 

[sky12065]

Unfortunately the climb down into Butte from the east is probably gone forever, but a routing through Helena could still happen.

I believe the table of primary census areas indicates that the gerater Helena area has more than double the population of the greater Butte area, so if it has to be one or the other, that reroute probably makes sense from the perspective of serving the population centers anyway.

Does this imply that Butte could serve as a terminal for some train that didn't continue beyond Butte, with track in some direction other than the east, though?

Yeah, while most of western Montana is rapidly gaining population these days, Butte's population has been stagnant for decades, and is probably only about half of its peak a century ago.

Personally, I'm not expecting any new passenger trains in Montana for a very long time, but service to Butte is even less likely than that. I suppose you'd have to revive the Union Pacific's old Butte Special, and I most definitely don't see that ever happening.

Speaking of Montana, I've been wanting to do the rail through Montana ever since seeing a picture of it in the Amtrak Vacations Publicaton back in 1992. I'll finally be doing it next year and looking forward to it! I hope it meets the impressiveness that has been in my mind all these years!

 

[access bob]

I once described Amtrak as the holiday inn on rails.Bob

Do you now call the high speed rail trains the "Holiday Inn Express" on rails? If so I hope they serve those tasty cinnamon rolls! YUMMM!

Hmnnn I think Amtrak meals are much better, and Amtrak provides much better sevice.

Aloha

Cinny buns might sell well in the diner for breakfast or the CCC...

yes contract with Cinn-a-Bon

Bob

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I once described Amtrak as the holiday inn on rails.Bob

Do you now call the high speed rail trains the "Holiday Inn Express" on rails? If so I hope they serve those tasty cinnamon rolls! YUMMM!

Hmnnn I think Amtrak meals are much better, and Amtrak provides much better sevice.

Aloha

Cinny buns might sell well in the diner for breakfast or the CCC...

yes contract with Cinn-a-Bon

Bob

Oh yeah, specially on the NEC!

 

[Larry H.]

Well I see this topic is so far off base its hard to tell what the subject it! I have pondered till recently how to vote, if at all. And Obama has mentioned support for Amtrak while we know what Mc Cain thinks. So it seemed a good Idea to support the hope for better rail services. However, the more quotes in his own words I hear, the more I am starting to think that the Obama package comes with a lot of problems..

Like today a article and meeting with the San Francisco Newspaper Board has him in his own Audio saying he would "bankrupt the coal industry" and necessarily send electric rates Soaring! I mean what that about, it doesn't sound like anything I would want to support. Put that on top of endless other things covered up by the media and I am concerned that all we have is a terrific talker and his real thoughts are not made public. That can't be a good thing.. I love rail and I don't care much for McCain, in fact I don't like either.. But Obama is getting more scary by the sound bite.. Thats why there aren't any out there. Think about it!

 

[AlanB]

Like today a article and meeting with the San Francisco Newspaper Board has him in his own Audio saying he would "bankrupt the coal industry" and necessarily send electric rates Soaring! I mean what that about, it doesn't sound like anything I would want to support. Put that on top of endless other things covered up by the media and I am concerned that all we have is a terrific talker and his real thoughts are not made public. That can't be a good thing.. I love rail and I don't care much for McCain, in fact I don't like either.. But Obama is getting more scary by the sound bite.. Thats why there aren't any out there. Think about it!

I haven't actually seen that interview, but somehow I suspect that once again words have been taken out of context.

What you might want to do is to start with Fact Check.org a not-for-profit that takes no funding from either political party and vets the ads, slogans, and other campaign info, and then points out the lies and the real facts. And they take great pride in slaming both candidates for mis-information.

It might help you make up your mind if you cut out the rhetoric.

 

[Bierboy]

...Point is, though, is that virtually ALL transportation systems worldwide rely on government financial and logistical involvement. To expect Amtrak to be different is unrealistic, biased, destructive and disingenuous.

DING DING DING.....we have a winner!

 

[Bierboy]

..As for the NP's old line over Homestake Pass into Butte, it's sat unused for a quarter-century now, but it's still in relatively good shape. (There have been a couple half-hearted proposals over the years to run tourist trains over it from Butte, but nothing's progressed very far.) The consensus, though, is that any future Amtrak service would run through Helena instead -- since Helena's on the active line and is a growing metropolitan area.

My earliest memories of rail travel are on that route (North Coast Limited...see sig). Beautiful country.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Like today a article and meeting with the San Francisco Newspaper Board has him in his own Audio saying he would "bankrupt the coal industry" and necessarily send electric rates Soaring! I mean what that about, it doesn't sound like anything I would want to support. Put that on top of endless other things covered up by the media and I am concerned that all we have is a terrific talker and his real thoughts are not made public. That can't be a good thing.. I love rail and I don't care much for McCain, in fact I don't like either.. But Obama is getting more scary by the sound bite.. Thats why there aren't any out there. Think about it!

I haven't actually seen that interview, but somehow I suspect that once again words have been taken out of context.

What you might want to do is to start with Fact Check.org a not-for-profit that takes no funding from either political party and vets the ads, slogans, and other campaign info, and then points out the lies and the real facts. And they take great pride in slaming both candidates for mis-information.

It might help you make up your mind if you cut out the rhetoric.

Never believe sound bites.... They are manipulated to the Nth degree. FactCheck.org does a reasonable job of cutting through the bulls**t but in the end your best option is to ask the candidates yourself- failing that (of course) you'll just have to choose based on the overall feel you get from both after combining their speeches, their rallies, their debates, their actions- all of it together.

Never let a single issue or statement decide your vote. Let it affect it, sure- but don't let it be the deciding factor...

 

[sky12065]

Well I see this topic is so far off base its hard to tell what the subject it! I have pondered till recently how to vote, if at all. And Obama has mentioned support for Amtrak while we know what Mc Cain thinks. So it seemed a good Idea to support the hope for better rail services. However, the more quotes in his own words I hear, the more I am starting to think that the Obama package comes with a lot of problems..
Like today a article and meeting with the San Francisco Newspaper Board has him in his own Audio saying he would "bankrupt the coal industry" and necessarily send electric rates Soaring! I mean what that about, it doesn't sound like anything I would want to support. Put that on top of endless other things covered up by the media and I am concerned that all we have is a terrific talker and his real thoughts are not made public. That can't be a good thing.. I love rail and I don't care much for McCain, in fact I don't like either.. But Obama is getting more scary by the sound bite.. Thats why there aren't any out there. Think about it!

Larry, I hear what you say but I fear that there are very few of us who do! You're engaging my Amtrak friend in an exercise in futility because people here want to live in the past, depend on hopes for the future and overlook the realities of today! Quite frankly we would be better off just sticking to Amtrak discussions and leaving the politics behind. After tomorrow it will be over and all we all can hope for then is that we face a more prosperous tomorrow and that Amtrak receives a greater degree of support no matter who our next president is!

 

[Montanan]

..As for the NP's old line over Homestake Pass into Butte, it's sat unused for a quarter-century now, but it's still in relatively good shape. (There have been a couple half-hearted proposals over the years to run tourist trains over it from Butte, but nothing's progressed very far.) The consensus, though, is that any future Amtrak service would run through Helena instead -- since Helena's on the active line and is a growing metropolitan area.

My earliest memories of rail travel are on that route (North Coast Limited...see sig). Beautiful country.

It's a great route, indeed ... and I would have dearly loved the chance to have had a dome-car ride over Homestake Pass. Driving I-90 just isn't the same.

I haven't actually seen that interview, but somehow I suspect that once again words have been taken out of context.
What you might want to do is to start with Fact Check.org a not-for-profit that takes no funding from either political party and vets the ads, slogans, and other campaign info, and then points out the lies and the real facts. And they take great pride in slaming both candidates for mis-information.

It might help you make up your mind if you cut out the rhetoric.

Well said, Alan.

 

[sky12065]

Like today a article and meeting with the San Francisco Newspaper Board has him in his own Audio saying he would "bankrupt the coal industry" and necessarily send electric rates Soaring! I mean what that about, it doesn't sound like anything I would want to support. Put that on top of endless other things covered up by the media and I am concerned that all we have is a terrific talker and his real thoughts are not made public. That can't be a good thing.. I love rail and I don't care much for McCain, in fact I don't like either.. But Obama is getting more scary by the sound bite.. Thats why there aren't any out there. Think about it!

I haven't actually seen that interview, but somehow I suspect that once again words have been taken out of context.

What you might want to do is to start with Fact Check.org a not-for-profit that takes no funding from either political party and vets the ads, slogans, and other campaign info, and then points out the lies and the real facts. And they take great pride in slaming both candidates for mis-information.

It might help you make up your mind if you cut out the rhetoric.

Before you buy into the notion that FactCheck.org is completely unbias, check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FactCheck. You be surprised some of the names that poped-up in connection with Fact Check when I checked it out; namely Barak Obama and Bill Ayres! Just another coincidence??? :huh:

 

[GG-1]

I will be so happy when THIS debate ends on Wednesday!

Aloha

 

[AlanB]

Like today a article and meeting with the San Francisco Newspaper Board has him in his own Audio saying he would "bankrupt the coal industry" and necessarily send electric rates Soaring! I mean what that about, it doesn't sound like anything I would want to support. Put that on top of endless other things covered up by the media and I am concerned that all we have is a terrific talker and his real thoughts are not made public. That can't be a good thing.. I love rail and I don't care much for McCain, in fact I don't like either.. But Obama is getting more scary by the sound bite.. Thats why there aren't any out there. Think about it!

I haven't actually seen that interview, but somehow I suspect that once again words have been taken out of context.

What you might want to do is to start with Fact Check.org a not-for-profit that takes no funding from either political party and vets the ads, slogans, and other campaign info, and then points out the lies and the real facts. And they take great pride in slaming both candidates for mis-information.

It might help you make up your mind if you cut out the rhetoric.

Before you buy into the notion that FactCheck.org is completely unbias, check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FactCheck. You be surprised some of the names that poped-up in connection with Fact Check when I checked it out; namely Barak Obama and Bill Ayres! Just another coincidence??? :huh:

Well I for one wouldn't trust Wikipedia for anything. After all anyone, be it Republican, Democrat, Independent, or other can edit any article and say anything that they want.

If you can site another source, then I might be more impressed. But Wikipedia while often helpful for many things, would not be a source to trust in this case.

 

[AlanB]

Before you buy into the notion that FactCheck.org is completely unbias, check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FactCheck. You be surprised some of the names that poped-up in connection with Fact Check when I checked it out; namely Barak Obama and Bill Ayres! Just another coincidence??? :huh:

Well I for one wouldn't trust Wikipedia for anything. After all anyone, be it Republican, Democrat, Independent, or other can edit any article and say anything that they want.

If you can site another source, then I might be more impressed. But Wikipedia while often helpful for many things, would not be a source to trust in this case.

And after loading that page, I see no mention of Bill Ayres on that page.

I do note a mention of Obama on that page, but then I also note that the chairwomen of the foundation has endorsed John McCain for President.

What I do know is that FactCheck has gone after both candidates with equal vigor.

 

[Larry H.]

Hi Allen,

Well it all over Google at the moment, and there is even a You Tube video of the whole question and answer.

I could have said a lot more but I like trains too so I won't.