Escaping from trains under Hudson River now easier

[Superliner Diner]

From Newark, NJ Star-Ledger, 7/10/05:

For train riders, it's a nightmare scenario -- a terrorist attack or accident that traps them in a tunnel under the river.
Now, after three years of painstaking underground work, a nearly half-billion-dollar project aimed at making the two-mile ride through the Hudson and East River tunnels safer in an emergency is substantially complete, transit officials say.

The entire story is here.

 

[battalion51]

Aside from the new evacuation routes, ventilation, etc. being installed the installation of Third Rail electric in the Hudson tubes is HUGE! This will allow NJT or Amtrak the flexibility to run Diesels onto the NEC and use third rail in and out of Penn in any direction. Bravo!

 

[AlanB]

Aside from the new evacuation routes, ventilation, etc. being installed the installation of Third Rail electric in the Hudson tubes is HUGE! This will allow NJT or Amtrak the flexibility to run Diesels onto the NEC and use third rail in and out of Penn in any direction. Bravo!

Now if NJT only owned some dual mode engines or had the budget to buy them, then it might really be huge. But alas, NJT doesn't have any and they don't have any in the budget. A budget that I might add is shrinking fast because they keep stealing money from the capital budget to pay for operations.

 

[AmtrakFan]

Aside from the new evacuation routes, ventilation, etc. being installed the installation of Third Rail electric in the Hudson tubes is HUGE! This will allow NJT or Amtrak the flexibility to run Diesels onto the NEC and use third rail in and out of Penn in any direction. Bravo!

Now if NJT only owned some dual mode engines or had the budget to buy them, then it might really be huge. But alas, NJT doesn't have any and they don't have any in the budget. A budget that I might add is shrinking fast because they keep stealing money from the capital budget to pay for operations.

Sounds like what Warrington did at Amtrak.

 

[AlanB]

Aside from the new evacuation routes, ventilation, etc. being installed the installation of Third Rail electric in the Hudson tubes is HUGE! This will allow NJT or Amtrak the flexibility to run Diesels onto the NEC and use third rail in and out of Penn in any direction. Bravo!

Now if NJT only owned some dual mode engines or had the budget to buy them, then it might really be huge. But alas, NJT doesn't have any and they don't have any in the budget. A budget that I might add is shrinking fast because they keep stealing money from the capital budget to pay for operations.

Sounds like what Warrington did at Amtrak.

Actually it started even before he got there, but he certainly hasn't stopped it. May have even made it worse, not really sure of the numbers.

 

[battalion51]

Now if NJT only owned some dual mode engines or had the budget to buy them, then it might really be huge. But alas, NJT doesn't have any and they don't have any in the budget. A budget that I might add is shrinking fast because they keep stealing money from the capital budget to pay for operations.

Well for the future anyway.

 

[engine999]

Aside from the new evacuation routes, ventilation, etc. being installed the installation of Third Rail electric in the Hudson tubes is HUGE! This will allow NJT or Amtrak the flexibility to run Diesels onto the NEC and use third rail in and out of Penn in any direction. Bravo!

Now if NJT only owned some dual mode engines or had the budget to buy them, then it might really be huge. But alas, NJT doesn't have any and they don't have any in the budget. A budget that I might add is shrinking fast because they keep stealing money from the capital budget to pay for operations.

NJT is ordering new diese; locomotives. I believe they have already accepted the first ones, and there supposed to be dual modes. They are PL42 AC's they look sort of similar to the genesis series.

A picture of the locomotive is here.

 

[Trogdor]

A picture of the locomotive is here.

I didn't realize NJT ran the Kentucky Cardinal!

 

[engine999]

A picture of the locomotive is here.

I didn't realize NJT ran the Kentucky Cardinal!

:lol: It would really look like it if all the equipment was painted differently.

 

[AlanB]

Aside from the new evacuation routes, ventilation, etc. being installed the installation of Third Rail electric in the Hudson tubes is HUGE! This will allow NJT or Amtrak the flexibility to run Diesels onto the NEC and use third rail in and out of Penn in any direction. Bravo!

Now if NJT only owned some dual mode engines or had the budget to buy them, then it might really be huge. But alas, NJT doesn't have any and they don't have any in the budget. A budget that I might add is shrinking fast because they keep stealing money from the capital budget to pay for operations.

NJT is ordering new diese; locomotives. I believe they have already accepted the first ones, and there supposed to be dual modes. They are PL42 AC's they look sort of similar to the genesis series.

A picture of the locomotive is here.

So far I haven't heard anything about those knew loco's be dual powered and I can't find any mention of that in any of the press releases. I hope that maybe it is true, but again so far I see no evidence that suggests that they are dual mode loco's. The first loco was supposed to have been delivered this year for testing.

 

[PRR 60]

Right now, NJT only lists the purchase of 33 PL42 locomotives from Alstom. There is no mention of any dual-mode purchases. NJT would have minimal use for dual power using third rail, 600v dc pickup. Even with the Hudson tunnels re-equipped with third rail, NJT would have very few opportunities to make use of this mode.

A dual mode that would use the AC catenary would be another story. That would open a whole range of operating possibilities. Unfortunately, such a machine has never been made and, although General Electric has indicated a willingness to undertake the project, the technical challenges would be formidable.

Transforming and converting 11kv, 25hz power or 25kV 60hz into DC and then back to low voltage AC for use in a modern electric locomotive takes a lot of space and results in a lot of weight for the transformers, inverters and the like. Now add the diesel engine and generators, and you have a M1 tank and then some. It is literally trying to squeeze an ALP44 and P42 into the same car body. The final product would have to be a compromise that would be a mediocre performer in either mode. Basically it would be a costly energy hog.

That is the simple reason it has not been done yet. The fact that there are some areas where such a machine would be useful is not enough. Unless a really compelling use can be found that would trump the operating cost penalties and the order quantity is large enough to offset the R&D expenses, I just do not see it happening anytime soon.

 

[AlanB]

Right now, NJT only lists the purchase of 33 PL42 locomotives from Alstom. There is no mention of any dual-mode purchases. NJT would have minimal use for dual power using third rail, 600v dc pickup. Even with the Hudson tunnels re-equipped with third rail, NJT would have very few opportunities to make use of this mode.

Well actually, assuming that they can find the slots for more trains in the tunnels and in Penn, NJT could make use of say a dozen or so dual mode locos, similar to Amtrak's P32 AC-DM's. That would enable them to run trains off the Raritan line, directly into Penn providing a one seat ride for those customers.

They could also run Bay Head trains into Penn with those loco's, again providing a one seat ride.

Now beyond that, until they build a third tunnel under the Hudson, and connect the Bergen and Main Line's to the NEC, they would have no further use of dual modes.

 

[Viewliner]

Right now, NJT only lists the purchase of 33 PL42 locomotives from Alstom.  There is no mention of any dual-mode purchases.  NJT would have minimal use for dual power using third rail, 600v dc pickup.  Even with the Hudson tunnels re-equipped with third rail, NJT would have very few opportunities to make use of this mode.

Well actually, assuming that they can find the slots for more trains in the tunnels and in Penn, NJT could make use of say a dozen or so dual mode locos, similar to Amtrak's P32 AC-DM's. That would enable them to run trains off the Raritan line, directly into Penn providing a one seat ride for those customers.

They could also run Bay Head trains into Penn with those loco's, again providing a one seat ride.

Now beyond that, until they build a third tunnel under the Hudson, and connect the Bergen and Main Line's to the NEC, they would have no further use of dual modes.

Dont forget that even though its a shorter segment, you could also run trains from Hackettstown to NYP via the Morristown Line or even via the Montclair-Booton line (upper Booton line) where there is currently no MidTOWN DIRECT service beyond Montclair. Riders/ridership would benefit from a one-seat ride for those points. Beyond that there are some other possiblities in terms of proposed routes, such as the West Trenton Line or my personal favorite: the Lackawanna Cutoff where there would definitely be some potential for MidTOWN Direct Service.