Ensuring Quality Dining Car Service

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There have been some posts in the past about these "secret riders" and to join seemed to be like a secret club. Fact is, they are out there and apparently don't do a lick of good. Nothing really has changed in the past 5 years. Calls to Customer Relations still seem to effect the most change, most effeciently.

I haven't ever received an email survey request, but I have received a survey by mail. Unfortunately, most of these surveys are written to provide management with the most vague gauge of what's going on with very little opportunity to express specific issues.

I work for a great company and there is no union here. A bit of healthy fear can go a long way in encouraging productive behaviour. I realize that I could lose my job tomorrow because my boss doesn't like the color toenail polish my wife had at the Christmas party last year. But I strive to be a useful and productive employee. I have been in union work environments where I've personally experienced the "you can't touch me, or I'll file a greivance" attitude. I'm not anti union per se, but I believe that there is a time and place for them - and it's not everywhere all the time.

As far as dining experience quality - my guess is that Amtrak just doesn't have the will to ensure it's quality consistently.
 
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VentureForth said:
I work for a great company and there is no union here. A bit of healthy fear can go a long way in encouraging productive behaviour. I realize that I could lose my job tomorrow because my boss doesn't like the color toenail polish my wife had at the Christmas party last year. But I strive to be a useful and productive employee. I have been in union work environments where I've personally experienced the "you can't touch me, or I'll file a greivance" attitude. I'm not anti union per se, but I believe that there is a time and place for them - and it's not everywhere all the time.
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BINGO! Perfectly said. Thank you for putting a little reality of the table!

As for the undercover riders, get the right person in charge of this program and it will work. This doesn't need to be some massive multi-tiered program typical of so many aspects of government or even corporate ops. The undercovers find a problem and the manager/head of the program addresses it directly, either recommending retraining or dismissal.
 
Amtrak except in a few rare cases, CS, and EB have really never attempted to draw on service which is how railroads always sold their trains, at least those who still wanted business. You didn't see dirty falling apart sleepers on the Super Chief or Great Northerns Empire Builder, the problem is now days people who work have little pride in what they do, its all about the paycheck. I agree with the writer who pointed out that people are clamoring for service that adds to the experience in travel again. It may not be a lot of customers but there out there and growing. But unless amtrak can figure out how to run trains that suit the travelers wish for something a bit nicer in first class, then its going to stay the same as its been and lowering standards every year doesn't build traffic for expensive sleepers.

The concept that the entire train is an experience unlike other forms of travel seems to be totally dismissed today. Now when we run a lounge car its the bare bones boring looking consist. Railroads that were trying to attract customers to spend several days on a train knew that offering a pleasant experience was key to getting most sleeper passengers. The demise of the first class sleeper lounges and domes, plus the destruction of decent food service has made paying the fare of a sleeper seem pretty high. I don't know what the answer is as amtrak is held hostage by a hostile congress who really wants nothing to do with it other than to complain about "Luxury Land Cruises". I wonder if any of them have actually spent a night on amtrak with toilets that don't flush, doors taped shut that bang though the night, Meals that lack interest, and often running hours late, and dirt in all the corners would actually say its too luxurious?
 
It is neither white or black, night or day

I work in the most highly unionized environment you can imagine and things work smoothly and safely.

The issue is accountability. If no one is accountable (from, top to bottom mind you) then there is no chance for improvement.

I have read the rants about the workforce in the Chicago yards and the incompetent Conductors and OBS all with a grain of salt.

What is relevant is making your concerns known and if management chooses not to act on reoccurring issues, then shame on them.
 
Request for clarification:

I have seen many posts on these boards saying to contact Customer Relations instead of Customer Service for travel issues. Curious, if Customer Relations best handles such complaints, what does Customer Service do?
 
PRae_Train said:
Request for clarification:

I have seen many posts on these boards saying to contact Customer Relations instead of Customer Service for travel issues. Curious, if Customer Relations best handles such complaints, what does Customer Service do?
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Help you book your travel and answer questions, I suppose.
 
Customer Service is a sub department of Amtrak Reservations with specially trained employees that deals with problems that arise during customers trips such as when connections are missed,alternate arrangements have to be made such as rebooking trains, hotel rooms, food and transportation provided on Amtrak's dime etc.

Chicago has a Customer Service Office and Lounge @ Union Station just for this purpose since Chicago is the LD Hub for most of Amtraks network! You actually deal face to face with an employee when @ Union Station when situations arise.

Customer Relations deals with customers concerns, compliments and complaints After trips are completed and customers either call ( best way to get quick service) e-mail or write in for assistance. It is sort of an omnibondsman for passengers and the last stop for customers seeking assistance with problems unless you contact Joe Boardman the President of Amtrak' s office @ 60 Mass.
 
As another data point, I have been asked to participate in a paid customer interview (I can't think of the general term for this, but the type where you spend a few hours in a room and they ask you questions about various things) for Amtrak at least twice in the infrequent times I rode long distance from the DC area. They always wanted people who had been on long distance trains but they did not want federal employees, which I am, so I never actually participated. I have also received the mailed surveys based on my trips as well.
 
I tried the LSA thing about 2 years ago and quit after 6 months. Here’s some eye opening things you all should know. First off LSA stands for Last Sucker Available. No one wants to work this job and they have a hard time keeping people in it. Yes they do have brand new hires working as LSA’s. Most all long term OBS Amtrak employees are waiters, or work in the sleepers. They know better. The LSA is supposed to be in charge, but that is a lie. Here is what really happens. The LSA is the person who is financially responsible for the entire dining car stock. Amtrak makes them sign for all of the food and beverage in the diner upon leaving the station. Whatever they turn in at the end point station is what they had better have money/payment for, or else the LSA is personally charged for it. This includes everything the LSA has no control over. Steaks, sodas, cheesecakes, everything! The waiters in the dining car are who are holding regular job assignments are very high seniority employees. Most of them have been LSAs and have stepped down because they know better. And therefore they know exactly how to manipulate the new hire LSA into doing what they want them to do. This includes not making announcements, not starting lunch or dinner at the prescribed time, making the LSA seat which customers they want where, ending lunch or breakfast early, etc. They purposely mark things wrong on the meal checks to throw the LSA off. They indirectly threaten and intimidate the LSA into so many things. And then at the end of the trip, the waiters run off the train with wads of tip money in their pockets, and any food or sodas that is short or not marked on meal checks, or any alcohol that was not collected for, the LSA has to pay out of their own personal pocket for. If the waiters really don’t like the LSA, BOOM, out goes a case of sodas out the window. The LSA has to pay for that. The waiters have direct control over the LSA’s paycheck! So, this is why you most often see poorly run dining cars. The LSA is caught between a rock and a hard place, and will be the first one to get thrown under the bus. Amtrak management knows all of this, but could care less. They need to have some sucker to blame when there is a complaint about the diner car staff, or if food is missing. They will just hold the LSA to blame for everything, and charge them money for all missing and all the messed up accounting. And they are laughing at the LSA too. It’s a set up for failure and a joke.
 
Unfortunately, I tend to believe that what the previous poster has stated is true some of the time. I did show up for hiring sessions for those jobs over ten years ago. It does seem fishy that they hire new people to be in charge. Something is wrong with that picture., don't you think? To be fair, I have certainly seem some crews where they all seem to work well together.
 
Exlsa did not make that up. The situation isn't usually that bad, but sometimes it can be. Complaints about fellow employees aren't always given the credence they deserve. Since most trains don't have onboard chiefs any more, there is no higher authority present to mediate this kind of situation. The Conductor will usually do everything possible to stay out of the middle.

Tom
 
This post makes it clear that why someone would want the LSA job in the Diner is a mystery? ( I consider the LSA jobs, especially the one in the "dungeon" on the SSL on Superliner Trains, the worst ones on LD Trains)

Amtrak needs to bring back the Chief of On Board Services position with it being a Management and not a Union Position, which is the reason it didn't work previously! Make the compensation worth while and hold them accountable for the service standards on LD Trains and Service can once again be close to what used to be the Norm in the Pullman Days and on the Pre- Amtrak Crack Trains!!
 
jimhudson said:
This post makes it clear that why someone would want the LSA job in the Diner is a mystery? ( I consider the LSA jobs, especially the one in the "dungeon" on the SSL on Superliner Trains, the worst ones on LD Trains)

Amtrak needs to bring back the Chief of On Board Services position with it being a Management and not a Union Position, which is the reason it didn't work previously! Make the compensation worth while and hold them accountable for the service standards on LD Trains and Service can once again be close to what used to be the Norm in the Pullman Days and on the Pre- Amtrak Crack Trains!!
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And give the COBS the power to Discipline, Fire and Battlefield Promote right then and there. As a previous Poster mentioned, a touch of fear whilst on the clock is an amazing motivator. And if you do your job and show enthusiasm and dedication to the Company, you have NOTHING to fear and can look forward to prosperity and promotion.
 
The previous COBS had "some power", in that they would write people up, take them out of service enroute, etc. The problem was, quite often, the Train Manager (service Manager ie COBS boss) wouldn't f/u and do anything further about it.

Also, FWIW, I can't disagree with anything Exlsa stated in their post...
 
exlsa said:
They purposely mark things wrong on the meal checks to throw the LSA off. They indirectly threaten and intimidate the LSA into so many things.
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Point of sale tracking should eliminate a lot of this crap. Given the apparent criminal behavior by a number of waiters, probably best to have the customers mark their own meal checks.

I have noticed that on the Lake Shore Limited, the LSA actually double-checks the meal tickets with the passengers to make sure that they are accurate.... maybe this is a method of catching criminal waiters.
 
Auto Train still has chiefs. It's the only LD train that does on a regular basis. The Chiefs are represented by ARASA (Union), and Union membership does not prevent them from being effective managers. They aren't perfect, but they contribute to a high level of service and consistency. Getting rid of unions is not the answer (SHEESH! I'm getting tired of having to say that!)

Tom
 
I Don't want to get rid of Unions Tom, but this position needs to be a Management job with some authority to discipline and get rid of bad employees without the suits ignoring this or over ruling the COS!

You can't do that riding a desk or hanging out with the OBS you used to work with!you can't even allow them to spend too much time with the same Crew and on the same route so this position needs a management level salary with management tools!!
 
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Ok, I need to call Customer (Service? Relations?) about the diner tonight. It took me roughly 85 minutes (may have been closer to 90) from entering the diner to getting my steak. I entered while still at WAS and we were well past FBG before I was served.

I don't want to speak ill of the crew; the issue was that there was only one cook trying to serve about 40 people...but that was absurd and I wound up wolfing my steak down and only got to eat my dessert once I got home. So...whom should I contact on this one so as to add to the "These cuts are problematic!" paper trail?
 
I guess it has a lot to do with my personal perception of Amtrak management vs. my perception of agreement-covered employees. I see much more of a customer focus among agreement (i.e., Union) employees. In a nutshell, management employees' philosophy tends to focus on the Company and how to get ahead therein. Agreement employees tend to focus on the passenger's needs and getting the job done. This is obviously a generalization, and it can't be true across the board. I have met a few (very few) high-level managers who do understand the ins and outs of delivering quality passenger service. The qualities needed in a chief are not the qualities that will get a person ahead in Amtrak management. The chief needs to advocate for the employee who fails because he isn't supported by the larger company; and in such a case the chief needs the protection that Union membership affords. Otherwise, the chief will be trampled by the simplistic know-nothings at higher levels.

Good chiefs do maintain a high level of service standards for employees, and they do have the authority to address issues and impose discipline within certain limits. They are respected on the Auto Train, and there is no reason they cannot or should not be respected on other trains. A chief who is too close to office-bound Amtrak management will never have the empathy needed to deal with active O.B.S. employees in such a way that good service results. It's a balancing act, and too much closeness to Amtrak management will throw the balance way off. I've seen too many clueless "Official Amtrak" managers in my time. I don't believe closeness to those people can be anything but a detriment. They need to stay out of the way.

Tom
 
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Tom, I have to heartedly disagree with you, despite your experience. True, I haven't worked a train, but I have many years of customer service on both sides of the union belt to make a fair, albeit perhaps not perfect asummption.

A lot of this has to do with the accountability of that middle-level supervisor (union) or manager (non-union). The best method to track the effectiveness, and therefore the measure of one's capabilities is the customer's feedback. Good chief, good comments. Bad chief, bad comments.

Now, can a manager put a 30-year shop steward off the train (or worse, off the clock) because he is sitting around a busy diner not willing to work because he 'doesn't have to'? Can a supervisor be just as criminally mischevious as his reports? Sure to all of that.

Matrix are important. What gets measured gets done. General comments are often the most important measurement of a good or bad crew, whether those comments are solicited or not.

But for the most part, I'm sick of crew sitting in the lounge taking up tables, ignoring crew rooms, not eating in groups of four to minimize impact on passengers, and worst of all sitting around watching the scenery. That's what the folks paying for their trip - and the crew's wages - get to do.
 
Venture:

I don't see where we have a disagreement.

Complaints, or lack of them, can be a very good measure of quality. By that standard, the Auto Train, with its Union chiefs, holds up very well. Most complaints have to do with issues that are beyond the control of the chief or o.b.s. crew (OTP, menu selection, equipment maintenance & allocations, etc.).

The chief does have the authority to take an employee out of service for cause, and this has happened.

If you see crew members sitting down on the Auto Train, it is generally because their work is caught up and they are waiting for the appropriate time to begin the next phase of their work. Or maybe it's because they've been working steadily for 8 or 10 hours (or more) and are taking a "cool down" break before heading off to their well-earned rest.

When visiting representatives of upper management ride the train, they very rarely show that they even know what to look at. Do they talk to their SCA about problems that might occur? Almost never. Do they visit the kitchen and ask the chef about his (or her) concerns? Not much. Do they arrive early and observe the loading of stock? Hardly ever. Do they stick around to observe the entire detraining process? Never.

On the other hand, I have witnessed situations where self-absorbed office-bound management employees have decided that safety rules and sanitation rules aboard the train do not apply to them.

Does the O.B.S. chief concern himself with these things? You bet! The chief knows the crew. The chief knows the personalities and strengths and weaknesses of every crew member, and knows how to use each one of those factors to the best advantage.

Now I'm projecting, because I have to. No high level manager has ever shared his true, deep feelings with me. But it seems that when high-level managers ride the train, they almost always seem to have the attitude that they, themselves, actually did something to enhance the travel experience. If that's true at all, then it's only true in the most abstract, indirect sense. Often, two or three high level managers will insist on eating at the busiest dinner seating (which means that some paying passenger is shunted into a less desirable time slot). They often insist on having their own table (which can mean one or two unused seats). in short, they behave in such a way as to show that they have no sense of the concept of customer service.

The management style that exists in Washington is totally inappropriate out on the road.

tom
 
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Venture:

You mentioned "crew sitting in the lounge taking up tables, ignoring crew rooms[?], not eating in groups of four to minimize impact on passengers, and worst of all sitting around and watching the scenery."

In my experience, I have seen this happen on trains without chiefs; I have seen these things done by visiting high-level managers on the Auto Train; but I have never seen it done on the Auto Train when the chief was empowered to step in and prevent it.

To be fair, I have to assume these managers know their office jobs. But I've rarely seen evidence that they know anything about managing a train and its crew on the road. If they rode the trains in order to learn, then I would say that's a good thing. But it seems more likely that they mostly come to show off; so I think the more they stay in Washington and off the train, the better.

Tom
 
I appreciate your even keeled response. I suppose I would like to see management come out of the ranks. You can't always have that, but there needs to be a temperament between experience, expectations and fresh new ideas.
 
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