Empire Builder vs. Other Long Distance Trains

[wintersummer]

I continue to prepare for my first train trip, taking the Empire Builder in August. I'm using this board and lots of other materials (travelogues, etc), to get a sense of what train travel and this train trip might be like.

I've read that the EB is the "flagship" for Amtrak, and that efforts have been put into enhancing service. I've also read that the food on EB and Autotrain remain good, while all other trains have been switched over to SDS. Travelogues have indicated that service is much better on the EB.

Here's my question: why is Amtrak putting so much emphasis on EB and Autotrain, while appearing to take extreme efforts to cut costs on other trains? Is it an effort to see if better service will attract more riders? And, is there a chance that other trains will be targeted for the higher level of service (and food) OR the other way around - will the EB eventually be just like all other trains? I'm just curious why these two trains are different. Thanks!

 

[Larry H.]

I traveled the City of New Orleans as well as the Empire Builder a month or so ago. In reality perhaps when the EB was the rollout for new designs in colors and upholstery it may have been the premier train for a bit. But now it seems as likely to see the exact, if not at times better equipment on other trains.. Such as on the return from Seattle we had a very old Lounge, and yet the City was running a brand new one.. The most comforting thing was that the food on the CN was actually the equal to the EB in most respects, particulary when you considered that the EB was minus a chef on the return and used plastic plates.. So it can be spotty. I think as time goes by here Amtrak is realizing that customers want a decent travel experience for there money and the crowds the EB has attracted has proven that point.. I think more will eventually follow.

The Sleepers were one point that were slightly different and I don't know if it was intentional or by accident. But the CN sleepers in both directions rattled a great deal and would be way to much for me on a long trip. the sleepers on the EB were mostly quite. Is that a choice by someone, I don't know..

 

[AlanB]

Here's my question: why is Amtrak putting so much emphasis on EB and Autotrain, while appearing to take extreme efforts to cut costs on other trains? Is it an effort to see if better service will attract more riders? And, is there a chance that other trains will be targeted for the higher level of service (and food) OR the other way around - will the EB eventually be just like all other trains? I'm just curious why these two trains are different. Thanks!

That's a big question and one that I'm not sure that we truly have all the answers too. First, the easier part.

The Auto Train has always had extra emphasis, since Amtrak restarted it years ago. There are a few reasons for that. One being that, when it got restarted Amtrak was able to secure a contract with the crew that is considerably different than the one they have for all other trains. Second, this train makes no passenger stops, so everyone is a captive audience. Third, I suspect that the fact that this train caters heavily to the snow birds has something to do with it.

Fourth, this is the only LD train that includes meals for all passengers. Finally, this train is probably the best long distance train that Amtrak runs. It comes closer to covering its operating expenses, than any other LD and it is the only LD train that does cover its above the rails cost. It looses money when other expenses are added in, like ticketing, office, and such.

So the Auto Trains enhanced service has always been there and it is not new.

The EB enhancements were started by the past president of Amtrak, David Gunn. And it was his belief that doing this would restore the luster of train travel, making it more attractive to people and therefore increase business. He started with this idea, before Congress passed the stupid provision in a funding bill that required Amtrak to cut its food service losses. However, that stupid provision came very close upon the heals of Amtrak's announcement regarding the improved service.

So for the reason that Amtrak didn't want to look stupid by changing something just announced, coupled with the obvious success of the enhancements, the EB has continued with the enhanced service. And it is quite apparent that David Gunn was right. Those enhancements are bringing people back to that train in big numbers.

While ridership all across Amtrak is up, the EB continues to set records for increasing ridership. Numbers that go well beyond a bunch of railfans wanting to ride the train just because they want to see what it’s like.

Thanks to those numbers, the new VP of marketing actually does want to expand this type of service. He wants to bring it to the Capitol Limited running between DC and Chicago. Unfortunately for him, that train has been plagued with major time keeping issues lately, thanks in part to congestion and in part to Norfolk Southern rebuilding a major freight yard in Indiana. So he can’t advertise the new features, when he can’t count on the train arriving close to on time. If/when that problem is fixed; I suspect that we will see enhanced service on the Capitol.

I’m betting that it too will be a major success, just like the EB. At that point it may finally be possible to prove to Congress that cutting services is not the answer. Unfortunately that only gets us part way, meaning an end to SDS or at least an end to it on major trains. Only big money for new equipment will allow Amtrak to both increase service and to provide the “enhanced” cars that one currently finds on the EB.

 

[Larry H.]

"I’m betting that it too will be a major success, just like the EB. At that point it may finally be possible to prove to Congress that cutting services is not the answer. Unfortunately that only gets us part way, meaning an end to SDS or at least an end to it on major trains. Only big money for new equipment will allow Amtrak to both increase service and to provide the “enhanced” cars that one currently finds on the EB."

Alan what exactly enhanced cars are on the EB that are not currently found on other trains in the system.. On our trip I didn't see anything I didn't run into on the CN.

 

[AlanB]

"I’m betting that it too will be a major success, just like the EB. At that point it may finally be possible to prove to Congress that cutting services is not the answer. Unfortunately that only gets us part way, meaning an end to SDS or at least an end to it on major trains. Only big money for new equipment will allow Amtrak to both increase service and to provide the “enhanced” cars that one currently finds on the EB."

Alan what exactly enhanced cars are on the EB that are not currently found on other trains in the system.. On our trip I didn't see anything I didn't run into on the CN.

The enhanced cars, are the rebuilt Superliner I sleepers. And yes, you can find them on other trains, as there are too many of them for Amtrak not to use them on other routes. But only on the EB are you supposed to always see them. On the other routes you may find all the sleepers are refurbed, you may find that one is, or you may find none. On the EB you should find nothing but refurbed sleepers.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

On the freight delay issue, I know that UP is basically a basket case because they are so overloaded with freight on much of their tracks that they might as well be trying to move in poured concrete. So much so that (I think I read this last year sometime) they were actually refusing freight shipments because there was no way they could handle it. Do we really have any kind of a good accurate handle (or does Amtrak) as to which of the freight roads that are giving Amtrak the most grief are doing it deliberately, voluntarily, so to say, rather than what (for most of UP territory as I understand things) is closer to involuntarily?

 

[sportbiker]

Do we really have any kind of a good accurate handle (or does Amtrak) as to which of the freight roads that are giving Amtrak the most grief are doing it deliberately, voluntarily, so to say, rather than what (for most of UP territory as I understand things) is closer to involuntarily?

Go to Amtrak.com/Inside Amtrak/Other Reports and click on of the monthly performance reports (pdf). For the April report (the most recent), scroll to page 77 and you'll find extensive information about host railroad performance (even a color-coded chart!). Surrounding pages have additional information about delays and their causes.

 

[wkaemena]

"I’m betting that it too will be a major success, just like the EB. At that point it may finally be possible to prove to Congress that cutting services is not the answer. Unfortunately that only gets us part way, meaning an end to SDS or at least an end to it on major trains. Only big money for new equipment will allow Amtrak to both increase service and to provide the “enhanced” cars that one currently finds on the EB."

Alan what exactly enhanced cars are on the EB that are not currently found on other trains in the system.. On our trip I didn't see anything I didn't run into on the CN.

I was recently on the CZ and I found all cars in remarkable shape. I dont know in which state of refurbishement they were?

 

[massiek]

Go to Amtrak.com/Inside Amtrak/Other Reports and click on of the monthly performance reports (pdf). For the April report (the most recent), scroll to page 77 and you'll find extensive information about host railroad performance (even a color-coded chart!). Surrounding pages have additional information about delays and their causes.

Great info. Many thanks! I'm very interested in the amount of delay of the CZ so I can plan a connection. Do you know where this type of info on a monthly basis can be found?

ketih

 

[wkaemena]

Go to Amtrak.com/Inside Amtrak/Other Reports and click on of the monthly performance reports (pdf). For the April report (the most recent), scroll to page 77 and you'll find extensive information about host railroad performance (even a color-coded chart!). Surrounding pages have additional information about delays and their causes.

Great info. Many thanks! I'm very interested in the amount of delay of the CZ so I can plan a connection. Do you know where this type of info on a monthly basis can be found?

ketih

have a look here