Empire Builder or California Zephyr to West Coast

[user 6862]

Have read help and opinions given to rogue8 which made me wonder about route.

Is the EB westwards a more interesting and scenic ride to the west coast from Chicago than the CZ.

Of course after the EB we would take the CS down to San Francisco to arrive at the same destination, but my impression is this part of the CS does not run anywhere near the Pacific until south of San Luis Obisbo, but tell me if I am wrong on this please.

We are still pretty flexible on this part of the journey and want to do this as well as we can, and did notice that some feel the EB is the best route in the US.

Any opinions on offer?

Thanks

 

[TheTwelfthDoctor]

Have read help and opinions given to rogue8 which made me wonder about route.

Is the EB westwards a more interesting and scenic ride to the west coast from Chicago than the CZ.

Of course after the EB we would take the CS down to San Francisco to arrive at the same destination, but my impression is this part of the CS does not run anywhere near the Pacific until south of San Luis Obisbo, but tell me if I am wrong on this please.

We are still pretty flexible on this part of the journey and want to do this as well as we can, and did notice that some feel the EB is the best route in the US.

Any opinions on offer?

Thanks

I'd say the westbound from Chicago to Emeryville (San Francisco) is nicer. The best scenery is around Denver, and you get to see it in the daytime heading west. On the eastbound, it's fairly dark when you reach that area.

Just my two cents, though. Any other questions?

EDIT: Clarity.

 

[jebr]

In terms of scenery, I think most would argue that the CZ has better scenery, especially during daylight hours. However, the service isn't at the same standard: for example, the CZ uses disposable plates/silverware (durable, but disposable), where the EB uses real plates/silverware.

The EB also has a wine/cheese tasting for sleeping car passengers.

All depends on what you want. For the scenery, I'd probably go CZ. For the "train experience", EB. Weigh them accordingly.

NOTE: I'm going mostly secondhand on the EB (having only taken it SCD - MSP), while firsthand on CZ (taken it OMA-SLC/ELK.)

 

[sportbiker]

I'd go with the CZ. I was disappointed in the EB, expecting a better level of equipment maintenance and OBS than what I got. There's another thread here that exhibits almost universal praise for OBS on CZ, plus the scenery is an order of magnitude better. Yeah, the food plates are Amtrak standard-issue plastic, but it's not a deal breaker for me.

 

[user 6862]

The travel date is early March and have heard that the Rockies and other central and other western mountain ranges are fabulous in the winter, and we love mountians. But also fascinated by Montana but never having been there don't really know why.

Notice there are two EBs from Chicago, or is it the same train that splits. One is the 7 and the other is the 27 that changes to the 7 at Spokane, not sure what that is.

Thanks

 

[Amtrak Cajun]

About the EB, there are two sections to the train, 7 which is the Seattle section, and 27, which is the Portland section. They split at Spokane, WA, 7 continues to SEA, and 27 goes to PDX. On the return trip, they join back up in Spokane and head toward Chicago as 1 big train.

 

[jebr]

I'd go with the CZ. I was disappointed in the EB, expecting a better level of equipment maintenance and OBS than what I got. There's another thread here that exhibits almost universal praise for OBS on CZ, plus the scenery is an order of magnitude better. Yeah, the food plates are Amtrak standard-issue plastic, but it's not a deal breaker for me.

To be fair, I preferred the diner experience (my only real experience with OBS, as I travel coach) of the EB over the average of my CZ ones. On the way out to SLC, diner service for both breakfast and lunch was quite slow. Might've been a bad crew, though, as the way back was much faster (as was breakfast on the EB.)

 

[jb64]

In march, the prettiest part of Montana, near Glacier Park, will be in darkness so take the CZ westbound and catch the EB another trip. I do love Montana, you should try to spend some time there.

 

[City of Miami]

CZ meals averaged about 90 minutes on my recent trip, 5(26). Only the LSA, 2 servers & 1 cook in the diner.

 

[oregon pioneer]

I never worry about how long the meals take -- it's not like I have an appointment to be somewhere else! I'm just enjoying the scenery, the company, and the experience. I want a nice meal (good food), served hot and in a friendly manner. That said, I took both the EB (28 from Portland to CHI) and the CZ (CHI to SAC) in November, and I have to agree with the posters who prefer the elegant train experience & food on the EB, and the scenery on the CZ (where the food and atmosphere are adequate).

In addition, I'd say the southbound Coast Starlight has pleasant scenery while it's still daylight (the Willamette Valley is very pretty), but most of it, including Mt Shasta, would be in darkness. By early March, you'd at least get into the Cascades outside Eugene by daylight, and I understand (though I've never done that section) that the tunnels on the west side of Willamette Pass are really something, including a full-loop inside the mountain in order to gain altitude. The scenery outside the tunnels should be gorgeous as well! And the food on the CS is the best in the system. Be sure and look at the menu in both the Pacific Parlour Car and the diner.

 

[montana mike]

In march, the prettiest part of Montana, near Glacier Park, will be in darkness so take the CZ westbound and catch the EB another trip. I do love Montana, you should try to spend some time there.

If you can travel Eastbound on the EB you will go thru GNP in the morning-around 9 to 10:30 AM--spectacular at that time of the day!

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

The CZ has great views DEN-GJT, but then you miss some gorges near SLC in the dark. There's also great scenery RNO-SAC. This totals to about eight hours of great scenery, while the other stuff is quite bland by coomparison. All the recommended scenery is mountainous.

The EB on the other hand, has varying scenery along the entire route. You get to see the Mississippi River, huge Big Sky Country with virtually nothing around, some mountains usually, and the Puget Sound coming into SEA or Columbia River into PDX. Individually possibly not as spectacular as the CZ's mountains, but it's more interesting overall. In March you probably won't get Glacier Park or fields of snow, but you should see mountains the next morning when you wake up, especially if the train is late.

So, it's really your choice, but my favourite is the EB because it slightly edges out the CZ. If you can afford it, the CS is also very good and of course, it's extra train time!

Note that Seattle is a fun city but the hotels are $$$$$.

 

[user 6862]

Thanks to all.

For pure dramatic scenery it's the CZ, for varied scenery and good dining it's EB and CS, that about it?

The only track along the coast for the CS is south of SLO, is that correct?

Does the CS run through any of the Redwood forests at all and would that be in daylight?

I know people here have experience of all these routes and I am being lazy not researching the track routes, but have so much work here at the moment which I have to clear if we are to make the time to travel.

Thanks again

 

[Notelvis]

Given the choice, I would take the California Zephyr westbound in March. You'll have the phenomenal scenery of both the Colorado front range and various gorges as well as the trip through the Sierra Nevadas on the final day by daylight.

By comparison - half of the most interesting scenery on the Empire Builder - specifically the upper Mississippi River from LaCrosse to St. Paul the first night out and Glacier National Park the 2nd night out - will take place after dark even if the train is on-time.

NOW - if you have the time and means, you might want to consider going out on the California Zephyr and return using the Coast Starlight to Empire Builder. Eastbound on the EB in March would be a pretty ride.

FINALLY - Yes. You are correct in that the Coast Starlight is actually hugging the coast only south of SLO. There is also some pretty dramatic coast running south of San Clemente if one were to venture from Los Angeles down to San Diego. Redwoods from the Coast Starlight....... no. Though you would see some pretty impressive scenery first thing in the morning around Mt. Shasta on the northbound Coast Starlight.

 

[user 6862]

That's good advice David, but we continue south to LA then on to New Orleans, Jacksonville, Fl and up to NY, so can't take the return route you advocate.

It's obvious that visiting the north central and north west are a must for another time though, and thank you.

 

[ScottRu]

Excellent advice and thoughts. Since I have an upcoming trip on the Crescent, what are folks thoughts about the service on the Crescent these days? Plastic or china? Wine tasting? Etc.

 

[Tumbleweed]

That's good advice David, but we continue south to LA then on to New Orleans, Jacksonville, Fl and up to NY, so can't take the return route you advocate.

It's obvious that visiting the north central and north west are a must for another time though, and thank you.

You are aware that there is no direct Amtrak service between New Orleans and Jacksonville, right? You would probably have to go New Orleans-Washington DC-Jacksonville.....

 

[tomfuller]

For westbound travel, I agree that the CZ has the slight edge on scenery. I love the Glenwood Canyon with the sheer cliffs and the Colorado River. You go through SLC and the boring Nevada desert in the dark. The Sierras west of Reno are also beautiful.

As far as the northbound CS, unless it is running quite late in the area of Dunsmuir, you will not get a good view of Mt. Shasta. IMO the best CS scenery in Oregon is alongside Upper Klamath Lake north of K-Falls and then up to the Cascade Summit on the south side of Odell Lake. I have seen Bald Eagles in both places.

On the EB eastbound, the scenery is pretty bland from Browning MT all the way to Fargo. The trip from MSP to CHI along the Mississippi River is better in the daylight.

 

[montana mike]

The CZ has great views DEN-GJT, but then you miss some gorges near SLC in the dark. There's also great scenery RNO-SAC. This totals to about eight hours of great scenery, while the other stuff is quite bland by coomparison. All the recommended scenery is mountainous.

The EB on the other hand, has varying scenery along the entire route. You get to see the Mississippi River, huge Big Sky Country with virtually nothing around, some mountains usually, and the Puget Sound coming into SEA or Columbia River into PDX. Individually possibly not as spectacular as the CZ's mountains, but it's more interesting overall. In March you probably won't get Glacier Park or fields of snow, but you should see mountains the next morning when you wake up, especially if the train is late.

So, it's really your choice, but my favourite is the EB because it slightly edges out the CZ. If you can afford it, the CS is also very good and of course, it's extra train time!

Note that Seattle is a fun city but the hotels are $$$$$.

Just a note: March is the maximum snowpack month for Glacier National Park--winter doesn't wind down in the Park until late April, so the trip thru Marias Pass on the EB will be about as snowy as can be, and in the daylight if traveling eastbound.

 

[Henry Kisor]

Clearly the solution is to take all three trains: the CZ westbound, the CS north, the EB east. That's what I'd do. Matter of fact, that's what I think I'll do as soon as I have enough Guest Rewards points.

 

[A.J.]

I am in the midst of a similar dilemma! I have about nine days vacation coming up and I've been hankering for a train trip! But now I can't decide what route to take! I can either start in Albany-Rensselaer or Chicago (but I would have to fly to chicago). And I have just over 40k AGR points to use up. But what to do???

 

[Bob Dylan]

I am in the midst of a similar dilemma! I have about nine days vacation coming up and I've been hankering for a train trip! But now I can't decide what route to take! I can either start in Albany-Rensselaer or Chicago (but I would have to fly to chicago). And I have just over 40k AGR points to use up. But what to do???

Since you live in the North where it's Cold and possibly Snowy, I'd say Go South! If you fly to CHI, consider taking the CONO to NOL (be sure you're not there doing the Carnival Craziness and go before the prices go out of Sight!), spend a Night on your Nickel (AGR Allows this Layover) then take the Sunset Ltd. to LAX, hop a Surfliner to SAN or SBA and then spend some time exploring LA (the Surfliners are a Special Route, 1,500-2,000 Points)! Thats a 2 Zone Trip from CHI-NOL-LAX for 20,000 Points in a Roomette(19,000 if you have the CHASE AGR MC). For your Return take the SWC from LAX-CHI, the LSL from CHI-TOL, another 2 Zone Award Trip, then either pay for a Coach Ticket or Sleeper to ALB!

An Alternater would be ALB-NYP-MIA on Regiona;/Silver Train but the Prices are Top Bucket this time of year in the Sunshine State! A Roundtrip would be 40,000 Points in Business Class (included) and a Roomette on a Silver Train!

If you wanted to do the Snowy Scenery Route you could do CHI-SAC-(CZ)PDX-WPT on the EB as a 2 Zone Award, WPT-CHI/CHI-ALB on the LSL as another 2 Zone Award in a Roomette for a Total of 40,000 Points! (minus 5% if you have the AGR MC)

 

[zephyr17]

CZ scenary advantage more than slight. Montana east of Cut Bank very monotonous. Spends most of second day in it either direction, and westbound mountains around Glacier after sunset in winter months. CZ second day is all canyons and mountains all day, plus Donner Pass on first/third day. There is really no contest.

Generally service is slightly better on EB than other trains, but not dramatically so and not enough to make it a major decision point. Plus as always with Amtrak, YMMV as regards service.

 

[A.J.]

thanks for the great advice, Jim! I am inclined to fly so as to allow more time on western trains and to avoid the eastbound LSL, which I have only taken once but it was a bad enough experience to make me very wary of taking it again.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Excellent advice and thoughts. Since I have an upcoming trip on the Crescent, what are folks thoughts about the service on the Crescent these days? Plastic or china? Wine tasting? Etc.

Plastic, no wine tasing.

For westbound travel, I agree that the CZ has the slight edge on scenery. I love the Glenwood Canyon with the sheer cliffs and the Colorado River. You go through SLC and the boring Nevada desert in the dark. The Sierras west of Reno are also beautiful.

As far as the northbound CS, unless it is running quite late in the area of Dunsmuir, you will not get a good view of Mt. Shasta. IMO the best CS scenery in Oregon is alongside Upper Klamath Lake north of K-Falls and then up to the Cascade Summit on the south side of Odell Lake. I have seen Bald Eagles in both places.

On the EB eastbound, the scenery is pretty bland from Browning MT all the way to Fargo. The trip from MSP to CHI along the Mississippi River is better in the daylight.

It's actually just wide open plains of nothingess all the way Fargo-Browning. It's not very dramatic but it's relaxing and dosen't keep you on the edge of your seat. You don't see much nothingess like that these days, it's good to just sit around for awhile.