Empire Builder Disrupted by Flooding

[PRR 60]

Buses are substituting for the Empire Builder between Chicago and Minneapolis due to flooding in eastern Minnesota and Wisconsin. Several rail routes, including the route of the Builder and some potential detour routes, are blocked by water, mud slides, bridge washouts, and trapped trains. No word on how long the disruptions will last.

 

[rtabern]

Buses are substituting for the Empire Builder between Chicago and Minneapolis due to flooding in eastern Minnesota and Wisconsin. Several rail routes, including the route of the Builder and some potential detour routes, are blocked by water, mud slides, bridge washouts, and trapped trains. No word on how long the disruptions will last.

From what I heard... this will last ATLEAST through today (Tuesday 8/21).

As of right now, 12:25am on 8/21, #7 is scheduled to go out of CHI on Wed 8/22... but we'll see.

 

[MrFSS]

Buses are substituting for the Empire Builder between Chicago and Minneapolis due to flooding in eastern Minnesota and Wisconsin. Several rail routes, including the route of the Builder and some potential detour routes, are blocked by water, mud slides, bridge washouts, and trapped trains. No word on how long the disruptions will last.

How many buses does that take to carry a train load of passengers? Does the bus make all the stops the train would have made?

 

[wintersummer]

To All My Train Planning Friends....You've seen me on this board during the last few months, eagerly planning my first train trip on the Empire Builder.

I'm now trying to make contingency plans based on this information. Here are my questions (based on fact I really don't want to ride bus from Minneapolis to Chicago):

1. How do I find out if EB is running in specific places?

2. How far in advance does Amtrak know? For instance, I'll take EB from Sea to MSP. Will I only find out when we reach MSP that we're getting on buses OR will I know that when we leave SEA?

3. If I decide to jump-ship (I guess, jump-train?) in MSP, do I get refund for portion of trip on buses? I'm thinking that if remainder of trip is on bus, I might just attempt to fly home from MSP.

4. Is bus rerouting just for portion of trip OR is the entire MSP-SEA leg of trip?

5. What's the best source to find out information? I'm leaving for SEA tomorrow and will not have computer access. Who should I call? (sort of dumb question...I guess Amtrak!)

I'm sure I'll be back with more questions as day progresses. Any help would be appreciated!

 

[wintersummer]

One more question - how long would Amtrak use buses vs. developing a rerouting plan using the train?

 

[PRR 60]

First, I am very sorry that this stuff is complicating your plans. Travel is always an adventure, and this is one more example of that.

When is your trip? That will be a major determinant in predicting the odds that the train will run through to Chicago. My guess is that trains will be running in a few days or so, but that is only a guess based on how quickly lines have been restored in the past. I do not know the extent of the damage and Amtrak is not posting updates. One additional complication is that the Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) may prohibit passenger operation from damaged routes until 24 hours after the route is opened for freight traffic, so that may further delay the Empire Builder resuming normal service.

The actual determination of whether a train will be terminated at MSP or not may not be known until the train is en route and approaching Minneapolis. Obviously, if the route is reopened before you leave SEA, then you will know that. If the route is known to be closed for an extended duration, then that will also be known as you leave SEA. But if the repairs are underway with completion TBD, then whether a particular train will be terminated at MSP may be a last minute decision based on the status of the work and FRA release. There are some alternate rail routes that can be used, but right now everything in that area is damaged to a degree. With so much freight traffic backed up, Amtrak getting permission for a detour rail route may be difficult.

If you decide to get off at MSP, you most likely not get a refund for your unused portion of the trip. Amtrak might grant you a voucher toward future travel for the room charge difference between SEA-CHI and SEA-MSP, but since transportation to CHI was offered, they will not consider your voluntary decision to truncate your itinerary to be worthy of refund.

As for how long Amtrak would bus a route, that is anyone's guess.

For up-to-date info, the Amtrak telephone reservation system is your best bet - 1-800-USA-RAIL (872-7245). Ovride the voice system (Julie) by saying "agent" and ask the live person about the status of the Empire Builder route between Minneapolis and Chicago.

Good luck.

 

[Rafi]

To All My Train Planning Friends....You've seen me on this board during the last few months, eagerly planning my first train trip on the Empire Builder.
I'm now trying to make contingency plans based on this information. Here are my questions (based on fact I really don't want to ride bus from Minneapolis to Chicago):

1. How do I find out if EB is running in specific places?

2. How far in advance does Amtrak know? For instance, I'll take EB from Sea to MSP. Will I only find out when we reach MSP that we're getting on buses OR will I know that when we leave SEA?

3. If I decide to jump-ship (I guess, jump-train?) in MSP, do I get refund for portion of trip on buses? I'm thinking that if remainder of trip is on bus, I might just attempt to fly home from MSP.

4. Is bus rerouting just for portion of trip OR is the entire MSP-SEA leg of trip?

5. What's the best source to find out information? I'm leaving for SEA tomorrow and will not have computer access. Who should I call? (sort of dumb question...I guess Amtrak!)

I'm sure I'll be back with more questions as day progresses. Any help would be appreciated!

I posted this reply on another board, but just in case you check here first (and since your departure for SEA is imminent), here's my advice:

Frankly, I think the best thing you can do is to not worry about it right now. Enjoy your trip to Seattle (I'm assuming you're going to visit SEA for a bit and not turn right around and come back), and the day before the departure, call Amtrak to see what the current status is. Even if they're still bussing passengers, do consider the possibility—it may not be all that bad, believe it or not: read on. The scenery is nice but not nearly as spectacular as other parts of the trip by rail, and it's a fairly short stretch during the morning and early afternoon.

The only scenario where I'd be hard-nosed with Amtrak would be if you were in a sleeper and had to take the bus. If that happens, make sure they give you cash for lunch (and breakfast, if it's not being served on the train), and call Amtrak when the trip is over to ask for a refund (or travel voucher) for the Minneapolis-Chicago portion of the sleeper fare (which should be between $72 and $218, depending on when you booked and how full the train was at the time of booking).

I had a trip on the Zephyr two years ago that had the most scenic portion torpedoed by a rock slide the day before we were to be in the area. Amtrak ended up bussing us around it as a result, and despite the loss of scenery (something I want to go back and see), I have to admit that I had quite an enjoyable time on the bus since it was a short day trip. We stopped for lunch on the way and they DID NOT give the sleeper pax any money for food. I called Amtrak when the trip was over and was refunded the full cost of the sleeper (for the whole trip!) without even asking; I just explained what happened.

So again, my advice is to RELAX, enjoy Seattle, call Amtrak a day ahead of time to see what the latest situation is (you may find that the train is being detoured or is back in service, negating the need for a bus for you), and just enjoy your trip. If they're bussing, you're not looking at a nighttime bus ride, and it's fairly short. Again, if you're in sleeper, just consider calling and asking to be refunded the sleeper portion that you missed and any food that they didn't cover.

-Rafi

 

[dan72]

A co-worker of mine was down in the Winona area this weekend and showed some pictures of the flooding. Pretty bad. In fact a couple of pics showed a boat sitting right in the middle of the CP line and another picture had track just dangling after a washout. CP has their work cut out. I would suspect the case is similar on other side of the Mississippi with BNSF as well.

Dan

 

[wintersummer]

I'm confused by something. If I go on the Amtrak web site and look at the progress of trains 7 and 8, I am getting departure and arrival times. Would they continue to show these arrival times if buses were being used? It's odd, because the times are consistent with the train schedule. On the other hand, there is one page I've been to which states that there have been major disruptions to travel in the upper midwest area.

 

[JayPea]

As far as rerouting, the train between SEA-MSP is running normally. It's only from MSP-CHI that buses are being used. I hope they get things cleaned up in short order. I'm taking the EB along its entire length (SEA-CHI) in a few weeks and hope there isn't additional flooding.

Hope your trip goes well and you have no interruptions, Wintersummer.

 

[rtabern]

I'm confused by something. If I go on the Amtrak web site and look at the progress of trains 7 and 8, I am getting departure and arrival times. Would they continue to show these arrival times if buses were being used? It's odd, because the times are consistent with the train schedule. On the other hand, there is one page I've been to which states that there have been major disruptions to travel in the upper midwest area.

#7 is cancelled out of Chicago tomorrow (WED 8/22/07) and beyond that things are still in the air. It seems that Amtrak is taking a 'day-by-day' approach to this.

Personally, I'm surprised nothing has been posted on the website about the delays and bus substitution because usually they're pretty good about putting service advisories up on there... so I don't know who's asleep at the switch (or computer) this week.

Anyhow, I know the EB route pretty well because I do Trails and Rails between Chicago and Winona. We had bus substitutions once this summer between MSP and CHI when #8 was running about 12 hours late.

Pretty much what they did then was to have 3 busses run from MSP to CHI... 1 bus went express from MSP to CHI with no stops... then the other 2 buses made stops at RDW, WIN, LSE, TOH, and WDL. At WDL, one bs went express to CHI and the other went to MKE making stops at POG and CBS.

You were assigned which bus you were to get on based on destination. As in, if you were going MSP-CHI you'd take that first express bus. If you were going from WIN-CHI, you'd take the second bus that went express after WDL and if you were going from like WIN-MKE, you'd take the 3rd bus that ended in MKE.

Now, I don't know... if the whole train just stops at MSP... I'd presume you'd need a lot more buses that in the situation I described above.

I wouldn't necessarily bail at MSP... I mean I don't care for busses, but the ones Amtrak chartered were decent. If I were a passenger... esp. a sleeping car pax, I would call and ask for a voucher.

As far as food, all the busses stoped at a Burger King at Wisconsin Dells. They told us the first $5.00 of your order was on Amtrak, if you went beyond that you had to make the rest up yourself. Some people were pretty insulted by that, but I got a burger, onion rings, and a pepsi for that.

 

[wintersummer]

As far as rerouting, the train between SEA-MSP is running normally. It's only from MSP-CHI that buses are being used. I hope they get things cleaned up in short order. I'm taking the EB along its entire length (SEA-CHI) in a few weeks and hope there isn't additional flooding.
Hope your trip goes well and you have no interruptions, Wintersummer.

JayPea - how can you tell that SEA-MSP is running? I go to the Amtrak website and seem to get many messages about 'service disruptions', making it appear like everything has come to complete stop. Your information makes me feel better! But, I'd also like the MSP-CHI leg to be running.

 

[JayPea]

As far as rerouting, the train between SEA-MSP is running normally. It's only from MSP-CHI that buses are being used. I hope they get things cleaned up in short order. I'm taking the EB along its entire length (SEA-CHI) in a few weeks and hope there isn't additional flooding.

Hope your trip goes well and you have no interruptions, Wintersummer.

JayPea - how can you tell that SEA-MSP is running? I go to the Amtrak website and seem to get many messages about 'service disruptions', making it appear like everything has come to complete stop. Your information makes me feel better! But, I'd also like the MSP-CHI leg to be running.

Wintersummer, I may be putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5 but I've tracked the #8 train from Seattle to Minneapolis via the Amtrak site for the last few days and it has given me the arrival times of most of the stops along the way up to Minneapolis, from where it gives me the "Due to service interruption...." notification. For instance, the #8 is currently estimated to be 34 minutes late into Malta, MT (as of 4:04 PM PDT.)I may be wrong but I'd assume the site wouldn't give out those times with that train # if it weren't running. Also, I've checked another website that tracks on-time performance for Amtrak. Westbound, it's given me the time the #7 (the westbound EB) into Seattle every day. It's been on time, too.

I hope that didn't confuse you, Wintersummer. Looking at my answer, I think I confused myself.

 

[wintersummer]

JayPea - No, you didn't confuse me. It makes perfect sense. What other site do you use to track train arrivals/departures?

 

[JayPea]

JayPea - No, you didn't confuse me. It makes perfect sense. What other site do you use to track train arrivals/departures?

Wintersummer, I used this website to check. This is a handy one to use. Just use the three-letter abbreviation of your destination and the train number you're checking.

 

[Guest]

But, I'd also like the MSP-CHI leg to be running.

Of course you'd like to see the entire route running; and I'm sure the rest of the passengers feel the same way! However, you'd like safe tracks to run on, right? You can't really fight Mother Nature, and you've got to deal with the destruction that she sometimes brings. I'm guessing that Amtrak will take care of you the best that they can, considering the circumstances.

 

[migen]

BNSF has announced that one track has resumed service, and another will be operational by 8pm on 8/23(THU), I haven't heard when Altrak will resume operations over it. Hopefully before we leave on EB on 9/2.

 

[PRR 60]

BNSF has announced that one track has resumed service, and another will be operational by 8pm on 8/23(THU), I haven't heard when Altrak will resume operations over it. Hopefully before we leave on EB on 9/2.

The tentative plan is to have the Empire Builder resume operations between CHI and MSP on Sunday, August 26. This schedule is dependent on CP finishing a temporary bypass of a washed-out bridge. Everything is still iffy, but railroads can perform some civil engineering miracles when they have to.

 

[yarrow]

amtrak still disrupted by flooding

 

[dan72]

I'm down in the Twin Cities are for work and I swung by the Midway station to see what was going on at about 9:00 p.m. The place was hopping and the train was loading for the westbound trip. Pretty busy place.

Here's a question. It looks like they are turning in St. Paul for the time being. How do they handle tasks such as cleaning, maintenance, mechanical, etc. Do they bring crews and equipment up from Chicago to handle this?

Dan

 

[Guest]

Whenever I have visited that station during the day (2 trains daily, one at 8am one at 10pm yet the station is open all day) there where plenty of people (3 at the counter, more than peak times I think) sitting around doing nothing, I'm sure they are busy now..

 

[AmtrakFan]

Does MSP even have a Mechanical Staff, I think they were all "Canned" at the end of M&E.

 

[Guest]

I just finished a trip from Spokane, WA to St Louis, MO last night. Amtrak loaded those of us with connecting trains on one bus. The bus smelled horribly of feces (insufficiently maintained bathroom and ventilation) and the seats were cramped and uncomfortable. I was sitting right on top of the rear wheel and endured a loud clacking and slapping noise from the damaged suspension. The bus was stuck in Chicago rush hour traffic and as a result I had to wait in line to get a new ticket and board a later train.

I slept on the bus for a short while and hated every waking moment. In retrospect, I should have taken a cab from the Minneapolis train station to the airport and flown home, cost be damned.

 

[PRR 60]

There is a report on another site that indicates the eastbound Empire Builder will run through to Chicago beginning today (Sat 8/25). Part of the trip will be on a detour requiring the train to run backwards from La Crosse WI to Chicago. Locomotives will be placed on the back the train at MSP to facilitate the reverse move.

Sounds like good news for our friend, Ms. wintersummer, who I believe heads east from Seattle on Monday.

 

[yarrow]

PRR 60, thanks for the above info. as all amtrak train status info seems to be down this helps us to figure out where our son is. he is due into chi this afternoon on the eb on his way back to college.