EB - Lateness Problems This Summer

[EB_OBS]

4 hours 2 minutes late today. Some people missed connections. Incredible. Ontime performance for train 8 in June is 0%. 12 month is 38.7.

This trainset has been behind schedule since it left Chicago on July 5th. It left Chicago 2 hours 9 minutes late due to switching out a diner and HEP problems. It was over 4 hours late by Havre, MT. It finally arrived into Seattle over 3 hours late.

That trainset turns for train #8 of the 7th. With the late arrival of #7 and then the repair of the broken bolster spring on the sleeper car, this train departed Seattle 3 hours 13 minutes late. It looks like heat restrictions and the resulting traffic kept if from ever making up any time. At one point it did get to 5 hours and 5 minutes late leaving St Cloud, MN.

Let's see how well it gets out of town tomorrow.

 

[RRUserious]

I was waiting for the June percentage after I missed my Chicago connection. People refused to believe the 9 percent record I cited from May. So to see that June was 0 just confirms that it is in a total fail scenario. Lotsa reasons I suppose, but it reinforces the notion that some people, the ones with earlier connections, are very likely to miss them and should travel with that in mind. My experience is that they are finishing their trip on the bus. Practically every trip.

 

[AlanB]

4 hours 2 minutes late today. Some people missed connections. Incredible. Ontime performance for train 8 in June is 0%. 12 month is 38.7.

Here's a solution! Amtrak should pad the schedule by 4 hours! Then the train will actually comes in "on time" a large percentage of the time, and the normal public i.e. not anyone on this forum will think that Amtrak can make the trains run to schedule!! It's not earthshaking; it's just making the already substantial amount of padding more realistic!! :lol:

As I pointed out quite recently, not sure if it was in this thread or another one, about 10 years ago the Sunset Limited was always running late. Very late.

So Amtrak got together with Union Pacific & CSX and they added a combined 10.5 hours of padding to the schedule, most of it on the UP side.

The host RR's just gobbled up that extra time and didn't care a bit. So the train still ran 10 hours late very often. And many times it ran even later than that. Probably an average of 1 every two months, Amtrak actually had to annul the eastbound Sunset in New Orleans in order to have an almost on time westbound the next day.

Adding padding just gives the host's more time to delay the train.

 

[Jean]

I would like to offer congratulations and commiserations to EB-OBS, who, I am guessing, has to deal with the fall-out of these problems, none of which are of his making. Then he finds time and mental energy to contribute sane and useful information to this forum.

 

[montana mike]

I see 3 of the 4 current EB's are running anywhere from 3 to 5 hours late again today. Even with the occasional turn arounds in Spokane recently the tardiness appears to be perpetuating itself. I know this is frustrating to all. I will be on the EB three times over the next five weeks and am now adjusting my travel connections and hotels accordingly to ensure I have sufficient time to interconnect with my other modes of travel after my arrivals in Chicago.

Travel in any mode these days seems to be quite an adventure!

 

[fairviewroad]

So to see that June was 0 just confirms that it is in a total fail scenario.

Well, June may have been "0" but it's a bit much to call it a "total fail scenario." I'll admit this is but ONE data point,

but I rode the EB in June from SEA to GFK. We left SEA on time, and were never more than 45 minutes late the entire

way to GFK, with eventual arrival in GFK a grand total of 33 minutes late. Total fail? Not for me.

 

[montana mike]

So to see that June was 0 just confirms that it is in a total fail scenario.

Well, June may have been "0" but it's a bit much to call it a "total fail scenario." I'll admit this is but ONE data point,

but I rode the EB in June from SEA to GFK. We left SEA on time, and were never more than 45 minutes late the entire

way to GFK, with eventual arrival in GFK a grand total of 33 minutes late. Total fail? Not for me.

You were on one of the few that made decent time. I rode the EB several times over the past couple months. One was "only" 48 minutes late into CHI the others were anywhere from 2 to 4 hours late. I agree it is not always late, just most of the time, but the point most people in this thread are trying to make is the schedule as laid out is no longer valid for most trips and people should plan, especially if they are taking the EB a long distance, on building in the reality of delayed arrivals and NOT try to make connections based on scheduled arrivals, but rather to the average arrival time, which for example in CHI is realistically after 6 PM most days.

 

[railbuck]

What in the world? So many problems on the EB? Looks like my favourite train is going through some very bad luck.

Yeah, it is. On the other hand, the AT is on time or even ahead of schedule most days.

<_<

 

[JayPea]

What in the world? So many problems on the EB? Looks like my favourite train is going through some very bad luck.

Yeah, it is. On the other hand, the AT is on time or even ahead of schedule most days.

<_<

Instant classic! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Ana]

1341887958[/url]' post='379108']

1341883899[/url]' post='379094']4 hours 2 minutes late today. Some people missed connections. Incredible. Ontime performance for train 8 in June is 0%. 12 month is 38.7.

This trainset has been behind schedule since it left Chicago on July 5th. It left Chicago 2 hours 9 minutes late due to switching out a diner and HEP problems. It was over 4 hours late by Havre, MT. It finally arrived into Seattle over 3 hours late.

That trainset turns for train #8 of the 7th. With the late arrival of #7 and then the repair of the broken bolster spring on the sleeper car, this train departed Seattle 3 hours 13 minutes late. It looks like heat restrictions and the resulting traffic kept if from ever making up any time. At one point it did get to 5 hours and 5 minutes late leaving St Cloud, MN.

Let's see how well it gets out of town tomorrow.

I was on 8 out of Seattle on the 7th and this all sounds right. Plus we stopped by the scene of a car accident near shelby not sure what that was about as we couldn't have hit the van we could seen rolled over but someone suggested that either the crew witnessed it or perhaps the track had to be checked, I don't know. But that was another 10-15 mins. We also waited on 7 to pass us during the night. Some conductors are much better with the updates than others. I thought the staff at the Seattle station were great, would've been easier if the station wasn't in the midst of a refurb but they were really helpful. They served pizza before departure and most people were pretty cheerful, there was a cheer as a train approached and then much laughter when we realised it was a freight and another cheer as our train finally arrived. I'm dissappointed I didnt see more of the cascades but the countryside between sandpoint and Libby was great too and I'm not likely to see that again in the day.My car attendant became the chef after Spokane and until they got a new chef at Minneapolis/st Paul which didn't help, but I think the obs did a good job keeping everyone looked after, especially considering how often some people press the call button!!!

I thought It was good that they bring staff on board to sort out connections before arrival. They provided transport for some routes missed out ouf chicago, they held the CONO, I think it was only the CL that was missed (and non Amtrak connections too I guess)

 

[Ispolkom]

I thought It was good that they bring staff on board to sort out connections before arrival. They provided transport for some routes missed out ouf chicago, they held the CONO, I think it was only the CL that was missed (and non Amtrak connections too I guess)

Great trip report, very complete, which covered most of the questions I'd have about a late Empire Builder. I've waited on #7 at Grand Forks for #8 to pass off the Devils Lake subdivision, so it's interesting to hear about it going the other way. What happened to the chef in Spokane that required your SCA to pinch-hit, or pinch-cook, or whatever?

I'm especially glad that they had people sort out connections *before* arrival. I know that I'd be much happier knowing what's going to happen with connections, were I on such a late train.

 

[Guest]

Are these current delays still a result of the BNSF derailment in MT? If so, is there an estimate as to when Amtrak's on-time performance should improve?

I was supposed to depart MSP for WAS on Monday morning, but got a call in the wee hours of the night saying that they would be providing on-time busses from MSP-CHI in order for passengers to make connections. When you're expecting a roomette, an 8-hour bus ride doesn't sound like much fun, so I rescheduled for this Thursday which was the earliest available roomette on the CL.

I'm wondering if I should make another, later booking now, just in case things aren't better by Thursday. I guess I can start watching today's departure out of SEA.

Anybody information would be helpful. Thanks!

 

[Ispolkom]

Are these current delays still a result of the BNSF derailment in MT?

I think the delays are a combination of derailments, high temperatures, track work, freight congestion, and Amtrak equipment failure. Oh and a trespasser fatality or two, I think. I don't think that there's been a grade crossing accident recently, but that probably means that we're due for one.

Still, this is a better summer for the Empire Builder than 2011 was. No floods or plagues of locusts yet.

 

[anir dendroica]

I think Amtrak ought to introduce booking of "non-guaranteed connections." When a train is missing guaranteed connections 50% of the time, then it is unfair to treat each day's missed connections as an isolated crisis.

The concept would work something like this:

1. Passengers are notified on booking that a connection is not guaranteed and asked if they want to add an overnight stay.

2. If an overnight stay is selected, Amtrak adds the cost of the room and transportation to/from the hotel to the ticket price.

3. If an overnight stay is not selected, Amtrak notifies passengers that in the event of delays, a hotel room will automatically be booked with the cost automatically deducted from the customer's credit card. Furthermore Amtrak will provide transportation to/from the hotel and guaranteed accommodation on the next day's train.

This scheme would also allow passengers to book overnight connections (e.g. CZ to SWC) that are not currently bookable.

Guaranteed vs. non-guaranteed connections should be determined statistically - e.g. a connection is guaranteed only if it works at least 90% of the time. Some connections (e.g. EB to CL) might be guaranteed in some seasons (spring and fall) but non-guaranteed at other times of year.

Amtrak eats a lot of cash issuing hotel vouchers to dissatisfied customers who miss close connections. IMHO this cash could be better spent hiring a few people to co-ordinate with hotels and develop a streamlined non-guaranteed connection plan.

Mark

 

[Ana]

1341945936[/url]' post='379251']

1341940434[/url]' post='379222']I thought It was good that they bring staff on board to sort out connections before arrival. They provided transport for some routes missed out ouf chicago, they held the CONO, I think it was only the CL that was missed (and non Amtrak connections too I guess)

Great trip report, very complete, which covered most of the questions I'd have about a late Empire Builder. I've waited on #7 at Grand Forks for #8 to pass off the Devils Lake subdivision, so it's interesting to hear about it going the other way. What happened to the chef in Spokane that required your SCA to pinch-hit, or pinch-cook, or whatever?

I'm especially glad that they had people sort out connections *before* arrival. I know that I'd be much happier knowing what's going to happen with connections, were I on such a late train.

Thank you, glad it helped. Good to know where the trains wouldve passed too, i missed the details. II went to bed sometime out of Williston and woke up in Fargo. I did ask about the chef and our SCA said it was an old injury flaring up rather than an onboard injury this trip. I guess Spokane was a good place for him to leave and our SCA (who said he was a certified chef) stepped up. He was great, kept popping by during the day to check up on us.

The CONO passengers weren't sure til the very last minute if they would make their connection. The got given the paperwork for a hotel etc but at the last minute - as we were minutes from Chicago - they got told it would be held. It was scheduled as an on time departure and ended up leaving at 8.07 so I guess they wanted to be sure it wasn't going to drag out to twenty past or so before they confirmed since we might've been delayed by the metra train ahead of us on approach. My friend was making that connection though so she was very happy.

 

[RRUserious]

Honestly, sounds like some kind of traffic jam, like rush hour on the freeway with a broken-down car on the left-hand shoulder. I think our whole system is busting its seams. The economy is vastly larger than what the system was built to handle, and now with all these containers arriving from China on the west coast, I think we're seeing the railroad version of sclerosis. Question is, like our highway system, can an economy like ours even fix the problem now it is before us? With the national problem with careless debt, are we in a financing bind?

 

[musikdude]

Since the EB has been running about 4 hours (on average) late into Chicago and Amtrak in not holding the CL, what has been happening to the CL passengers? Bus ride to catch up?

Overnight in hotel paid by Amtrak and then out on next day's CL? If that is the case, and there is not an available room on the next day's CL, do they just send you in coach (even if you don't want to ride in coach)?

If you are forced into riding coach the next day and you had paid for a room with points, do you get some type of point's refund due to not having a room? Do you still get your free meals even though you have been out in coach??

Does anyone know the specifics of what happens??

 

[RRUserious]

Just looking at trains connecting with EB for points east, I'm getting departures of 6:00PM, 6:10PM, and 9:30PM. I am guess most LSL passengers make their train with a seriously reduced layover. But with the zero percent ontime record in June, did the Michigan and Capitol Limited passengers ever make their connection? I wonder if Amtrak just had buses standing by every day to get people off EB to points further east. Do those eastern trains really move so slow that a bus can catch up?

Such a miracle that last October, when I did the eastbound portion of my trip to the west that things went so well. I'm wondering if the trouble with BNSF started after that.

 

[montana mike]

I see this AM the two eastbound EBs are almost 8 and 5 hours behind schedule so far. Bummer. Weather certainly isn't an issue now--normal temps, clear skies and no major storms along the entire highline of the US. I know they have to clean, refuel and reprovision the EB in Seattle, but even with just being a couple hours late into Seattle the trains have been departing 4 hours late. I see no BNSF service advisories on their boards either today. The delays appear to be getting worse, not better. C'est La Vie'

 

[JayPea]

We here in the Pacific Northwest are experiencing the hottest weather in three years and there have been severe heat restrictions across Washington. That's part of the problem now.

 

[montana mike]

I see where between Yakima and Pasco the temps are supposed to rise to the 90's, but it's currently 69 degrees in Seattle and Portland with a forecasted high in the 70's to around 80. Not exactly a heatwave. Still doesn't explain the huge delays across the rest of the route. Nothing we can do about this mess though.

We here in the Pacific Northwest are experiencing the hottest weather in three years and there have been severe heat restrictions across Washington. That's part of the problem now.

 

[Teri]

At what point would Amtrak say trains are going to be 4 hours late until further notice. That would be helpful. There is definitely a pattern this week and prior. I would think until XYZ is fixed they should be able to know the time schedule is revised.

Thank you

 

[JayPea]

I see where between Yakima and Pasco the temps are supposed to rise to the 90's, but it's currently 69 degrees in Seattle and Portland with a forecasted high in the 70's to around 80. Not exactly a heatwave. Still doesn't explain the huge delays across the rest of the route. Nothing we can do about this mess though.

We here in the Pacific Northwest are experiencing the hottest weather in three years and there have been severe heat restrictions across Washington. That's part of the problem now.

I don't really get this either to tell you the truth. I was on the EB Sunday that ran from Vancouver to nearly Bingen - White Salmon at 25 mph due to heat restrictions. It was 88 then in Vancouver, which doesn't seem excessive. And though it has been cooler, the Portland leg of the EB has lost almost exactly the same amount of time from Vancouver to Bingen - White Salmon each day since then, so I assume the same thing is happening. There were more heat restrictions Wishram - Pasco, so that we were two hours late into Pasco. And it has been consistently 2 hrs late into Pasco every day.

 

[JayPea]

One oasis of good news in a desert of bad concerning the EB: today's #7 was 13 minutes EARLY into Seattle today.

 

[fairviewroad]

One oasis of good news in a desert of bad concerning the EB: today's #7 was 13 minutes EARLY into Seattle today.

Yeah, I was just about to point this out too. Guess July's OTP for #7 will be at least 3%, woo hoo!

And to the comment about Amtrak just issuing an advisory saying that until further notice, trains will run 4 hours late. The problem

with that is that people will take that to mean that they can just show up at the station 4 hours late. Whereas some days (like

today's #7) that would mean they'd miss their train by a long shot. Or....look at the #7 that left CHI yesterday. It ran on virtually

on time until FAR, where it started to lose time. So where would the "advisory" kick in?

Passengers do need to be aware of the tools at their disposal to check train status, but it's not clear to me that a general advisory

is needed.