EB delays decreasing? trackwork getting completed?

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zephyr17 said:
Once on the CP, it was a entirely different story. We were put in the hole for EVERYTHING, we lost an additional 4 hours between MSP and CHI. I vote for CP dispatching as the reason it loses time once it gets out of MSP.
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This line was double track when Amtrak first got started. Milwaukee Road single tracked it out of financial desperation.
 
George Harris said:
zephyr17 said:
Once on the CP, it was a entirely different story. We were put in the hole for EVERYTHING, we lost an additional 4 hours between MSP and CHI. I vote for CP dispatching as the reason it loses time once it gets out of MSP.
Click to expand...
This line was double track when Amtrak first got started. Milwaukee Road single tracked it out of financial desperation.
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Even single-tracked it was in remarkably poor condition by the early 1980s, before the Milwaukee Road's last bankruptcy. The Soo Line, and its parent CP spent a lot of money bringing it up to its present state, even if they haven't restored the double track.

We've talked a lot about how much oil field business BNSF is getting, but the former Soo Line is also full of tank cars of oil and hopper cars with frac sand. I'm hoping that Saturday's train won't be too late, as Mrs. Ispolkom and I are transfering to the Boston section of the Lake Shore Limited. We live in hope -- I notice that today's #8 has cut its 3-hour delay in Devils Lake to 1-1/2 hours late in Milwaukee, so miracles are possible.
 
Now over 6 hours late! And #8 arrived in CHI last night over 6 hours late as well (partly due to BNSF train issues around Essex-although this only accounted for about half of the delay).
 
I see #7 is now in a "Service Disruption" status after going well over 7 hours late thru ND today. I think you are right--A turn in SPK will be in order, assuming there wasn't another issue causing these very long delays.

:-(
 
I am keeping a close eye on this because I'm headed out on #8 on Tuesday out of TOH to CHI. If my math serves me right, that would be the assumed turned train.
 
I am curious how this works with the EB in spk. Does the westbound train normally terminate in Spokane and join up with the EB train cars to form an eastbound train, or does the WB go all the way to Seattle.

Like tonight, the WB is 8 hrs late. Would this normally go all the way to sea but instead sits in Spokane all night. ( well day by the time it will get there).

I guess I'm confused that they have engines to get the cars to Spokane, so why do they not just send the east cars east and WB cars west.
 
buddy559 said:
I am curious how this works with the EB in spk. Does the westbound train normally terminate in Spokane and join up with the EB train cars to form an eastbound train, or does the WB go all the way to Seattle.

Like tonight, the WB is 8 hrs late. Would this normally go all the way to sea but instead sits in Spokane all night. ( well day by the time it will get there).

I guess I'm confused that they have engines to get the cars to Spokane, so why do they not just send the east cars east and WB cars west.
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If 7/27 were to go all the way through to SEA/PDX then it would not be able to be turned around in time to leave as tomorrow's 8/28. With a 7+ hour delay they would arrive AFTER they would be scheduled to depart back for CHI, and that doesn't take into account cleaning the train, watering and putting in fuel, etc. Pax would have to wait inside the station, maybe for hours, before the train would be ready to board and depart-- and it would depart with a significant delay, likely out of it's time slot, which means the rest of the journey to CHI would become another huge delay fest.
 
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buddy559 said:
I am curious how this works with the EB in spk. Does the westbound train normally terminate in Spokane and join up with the EB train cars to form an eastbound train, or does the WB go all the way to Seattle.

Like tonight, the WB is 8 hrs late. Would this normally go all the way to sea but instead sits in Spokane all night. ( well day by the time it will get there).

I guess I'm confused that they have engines to get the cars to Spokane, so why do they not just send the east cars east and WB cars west.
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Not totally clear what you are asking.

What usually happens if both east- and west- bound are near on-time at Spokane is -

There are two eastbound trains, one from SEA with two engines and 6 cars scheduled arrival 12:45A , one from PDX with one engine and 4 cars scheduled arrival 1213A.

The train from Portland has its engine cut off, the cars are coupled to the back of the section coming from Seattle, the EB now has 2 engines pulling 10 cars for the rest of its run to Chicago.

The single westbound arrives a bit later - scheduled at 01:40A , the tail 4 cars are cut off and go to PDX behind the recently arrived engine. The front part continues to Seattle with 2 engines.

When, (not if), the westbound is so late into Spokane that there's no way to get the two sections to SEA and/or PDX in time to turn them and keep within a few hours of schedule,

then the whole rig stops in Spokane, gets cleaned and turned,

and all the Seattle and Portland passengers are "bustituted" both east and west, to and from SEA and PDX.

There's not enough cars and engines in SEA or PDX to make up either eastbound train without the arriving westbound trains, so it's all buses to-from Spokane, whenever the westbound is really late.

The several times I've been on the Builder in either direction I've watched the switching, with several variations depending on lateness of any of the trains that split-merge there in the wee hours (Sleepless in Spokane is me). Never seen them turn the train there (not likely to either, cause would either be quickly herded onto bus westbound or arrived on bus with train already there when going eastbound)

Diverging - Spokane has plenty of switching space, and freight engines that Amtrak occasionnaly borrows.
 
So normally and on time the train from Chicago would add the engine that brought the cars in from sea, to return that engine to sea? I guess I am just not understanding why if they have 2 engines, or sets of engines, to take the cars from PDX and SEA, to Spokane, why would the transfer not just take place on Spokane on a regular basis?

Or is more power needed to return the majority of the train to sea as scheduled?
 
NW cannonball said:
buddy559 said:
I am curious how this works with the EB in spk. Does the westbound train normally terminate in Spokane and join up with the EB train cars to form an eastbound train, or does the WB go all the way to Seattle.

Like tonight, the WB is 8 hrs late. Would this normally go all the way to sea but instead sits in Spokane all night. ( well day by the time it will get there).

I guess I'm confused that they have engines to get the cars to Spokane, so why do they not just send the east cars east and WB cars west.
Click to expand...
Not totally clear what you are asking.

What usually happens if both east- and west- bound are near on-time at Spokane is -

There are two eastbound trains, one from SEA with two engines and 6 cars scheduled arrival 12:45A , one from PDX with one engine and 4 cars scheduled arrival 1213A.

The train from Portland has its engine cut off, the cars are coupled to the back of the section coming from Seattle, the EB now has 2 engines pulling 10 cars for the rest of its run to Chicago.

The single westbound arrives a bit later - scheduled at 01:40A , the tail 4 cars are cut off and go to PDX behind the recently arrived engine. The front part continues to Seattle with 2 engines.

When, (not if), the westbound is so late into Spokane that there's no way to get the two sections to SEA and/or PDX in time to turn them and keep within a few hours of schedule,

then the whole rig stops in Spokane, gets cleaned and turned,

and all the Seattle and Portland passengers are "bustituted" both east and west, to and from SEA and PDX.

There's not enough cars and engines in SEA or PDX to make up either eastbound train without the arriving westbound trains, so it's all buses to-from Spokane, whenever the westbound is really late.

The several times I've been on the Builder in either direction I've watched the switching, with several variations depending on lateness of any of the trains that split-merge there in the wee hours (Sleepless in Spokane is me). Never seen them turn the train there (not likely to either, cause would either be quickly herded onto bus westbound or arrived on bus with train already there when going eastbound)

Diverging - Spokane has plenty of switching space, and freight engines that Amtrak occasionnaly borrows.
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Ok, I may need a diagram! Just kidding and thanks for the explination.

So basically the PDX and sea engines haul cars to Spokane, when they get there if they have no cars to haul back, they just sit and wait and ( skip a day) to catch up. Resulting in busses for tomorrow's PDX/sea pax to meet the cars in Spokane.

So, now they have to wye? ( trying to learn) the train in Spokane, versus a normal track turn around in sea for normal operations?
 
buddy559 said:
So normally and on time the train from Chicago would add the engine that brought the cars in from sea, to return that engine to sea?
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No. The one from CHI (7/27) gets split into two, the front "half" (7) heads to SEA while the other half (27) gets an engine to take it to PDX.

Then two trains, one from SEA (8) and the other from PDX (28) arrive and those to trains are put together and sent off to CHI.

Two or three engines pull 7/27 to SPK, then two take 7 to SEA.

You only need one engine for 27/28 to and from PDX and SPK, 7 and 8 from SEA and SPK run with two.
 
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Now I'm getting confused, and I've been there and watched at least 8 times.

Gonna sleep on it.

One thing to get clear is, when the Builder turns in Spokane, there are no trains from or to either Seattle or Portland, only bustitutions. Hope that helps.
 
Tonight I thought I saw the PDX and sea departures heading for Spokane, to meet, ? I'm confused because it looks like they have enough power to get stuff back and forth, so is it just the dining car, that need to head back east. I am assuming all WB cars need to go to their destination, and vice versa. ( rather than swapping people out of cars to get where they are headed. ). So when they bus, does that mean later in the day they haul empty cars back.
 
buddy559 said:
Tonight I thought I saw the PDX and sea departures heading for Spokane, to meet, ? I'm confused because it looks like they have enough power to get stuff back and forth, so is it just the dining car, that need to head back east. I am assuming all WB cars need to go to their destination, and vice versa. ( rather than swapping people out of cars to get where they are headed. ). So when they bus, does that mean later in the day they haul empty cars back.
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What do you mean you saw them? You actually saw them leave the station or you're just looking at a status map?

And I think you're completely confused, and this isn't likely going to help you but let me try.

7/27, the westbound, will arrive in SPK and be terminated. They will put the pax on busses to get them to SEA and PDX while they clean and turn the train. It will leave tomorrow night as 8/28(25). .

It's not about power or what cars have to get where, it's a matter of making sure that there's as few delays as possible. Now 8/28 (the super delayed train) will be on time leaving SPK tomorrow on it's way back to CHI. Later on tomorrow the two trains which sat all night in PDX and SEA will head to SPK and be joined together tomorrow night.
 
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ALC Rail Writer said:
buddy559 said:
Just watching online, it's showing the 2 chi bound parts almost to Spokane to meet, nothing. The WB is still half way across MT.
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Are you looking at this map?

http://dixielandsoftware.net/cgi-bin/getmap.pl?mapname=West
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I was looking at the train tracker on amtrak.com. It's under maintenance but if you double click it will still let you access the track map. But I think I get it, thanks for the explanations, the trains heading to Spokane will join to head to chi. It's tomorrow's PDX and sea pax outbound at 4pm tomorrow who will be ( bustituted). Day late and a dollar short over here.
 
buddy559 said:
Just watching online, it's showing the 2 chi bound parts almost to Spokane to meet, nothing. The WB is still half way across MT.
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Those trains will make it and

buddy559 said:
ALC Rail Writer said:
buddy559 said:
Just watching online, it's showing the 2 chi bound parts almost to Spokane to meet, nothing. The WB is still half way across MT.
Click to expand...
Are you looking at this map?

http://dixielandsoftware.net/cgi-bin/getmap.pl?mapname=West
Click to expand...
I was looking at the train tracker on amtrak.com. It's under maintenance but if you double click it will still let you access the track map. But I think I get it, thanks for the explanations, the trains heading to Spokane will join to head to chi. It's tomorrow's PDX and sea pax outbound at 4pm tomorrow who will be ( bustituted). Day late and a dollar short over here.
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Well it's both. Eventually 7/27 will reach SPK and those pax will be bussed west. That means there will be no trains running between SPK and SEA/PDX tonight, as they were scheduled to arrive tomorrow morning. That means tomorrow's pax will need to be bussed to SPK to meet the late train that will be cleaned, turned, and waiting for them to head back to CHI.
 
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