Does Amtrak know how trains work?

[Ryan]

And as the traveler knows they never indicate if FC on the acela is rear or front on the train. I always have to ask at the window.

The overhead signs indicate where to stand for FC on Acela, as well as where to stand for the BC quiet car.

I believe that the only major station that doesn't have the variable message signs for Acela is NYP. I know that they exist in WAS, BAL, WIL, PHL, PVD, RTE, BBY, BOS. AFAIK, NWK, STM, and NHV don't have the signs. I'm not sure about BWI and MET.

I'm pretty sure BWI is a "no", but perhaps I just haven't noticed them. They are good about announcing it over the PA before the train arrives, though.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Oh and the station staff makes an announcement when it's time to go to the platform, too. There is also an automated voice thingie that verbally says all the stops the train willbe making, and the stops are also listed on the digital sign.

Very similar to WIL. Generally Amtrak only uses two tracks with the platform between them. One escalator/stairwell and one elevator. The other track has a low level platform (except for the handicap platform) and is used by SEPTA most of the time, at least northbound.

 

[CoachSlumber]

There are so many security issues that are not addressed in this article. If people were allowed to just wander around the platforms in Chicago and any big city, it would not make it easier to get on the train, it would make it worse. The crowding around the trains would be impossible, Comparing Amtrak trains to commuter trains is not right as most commuter trains have the name of the train on it somewhere or there is only one that leaves from a specific platform the same each day. The Amtrak trains do not always end up on the same tracks in Chicago, so having signage that lists the train would have to change constantly. It is much like an airport yes, because trains come into different tracks and there is only one door to get to that track. Letting you wander around the platforms will not help you get to your train any quicker.

Plus unfortunately, there are people who would try to jump on a train without a ticket and hide in a bathroom for instance to get from one place to another without paying. Plus there are terrorist around that without having the tickets checked, would be able to just walk onto any train and do major damage. Have a train blow up when it arrives into a large station that can have hundreds of people if not thousands of people if you add the commuters at rush hour, would be devastating.

As articles on this, what you can't do in Washington or NY Penn you can do in Baltimore. Makes no sense. I understand some of the restrictions on access to gates in the busy stations, but this is really just copying aviation's security theater. Except that it is totally porous. It's typical bureaucratic thinking. Some years ago, these stations were basically open. I used to go down to Penn and get on the Broadway Limited sleeping cars just to see them before they departed.

 

[MARC Rider]

the_traveler gives a good explanation of the only logical reason I've heard for the gates and the kindergarten walk... WAS, NYP and CHI have small platforms. I can completely understand why Amtrak does not want a platform packed full of impatient passengers waiting for a Northeast Regional train... and having passengers who are arriving on said having to fight their way onto the platform.

Personally, I prefer to sit down in the station until it's time to board, instead of standing on the platform to wait for my train. I'd just prefer that Amtrak get rid the gates and simply make a boarding call... saying that passengers can now board train xxx on track xxx.

While that explanation makes some sense, those of us who recall the pre-9/11 situation remember that things worked pretty well without the gate naz.., er, gate "dragons," at least for the corridor trains. At NYP, yes, they didn't let you on the platform until they announced the train, and I agree that the platforms there are kind of narrow, but they also didn't bother with the ticket check, because most of the Northeast Direct/Northeast Regionals were unreserved until 2003 or 2004, and even for the few that were reserved, I guess they figured they could throw you off the train at Newark if you didn't have the right ticket.

At WAS, even though they didn't open the gate until the train was ready, no one cared if you went on the platform to take a look. In 1993, I was at the station and walked out on the platform where the Montrealer was boarding to take a look at the consist, and no one bothered me at all. Also, they used to let MARC passengers congregate trackside at Gate A. This helped relieve congestion in the concourse, especially if there was a MARC service disruption. It would also help if they used the interior boarding lounges in gates B-D, which are usually empty, while the cattle line for the regionals snakes outside through the concourse. In fact, for me, the biggest benefit of AGR Select Plus isn't just the points, it's being able to go into the Club Acela and bypass the cattle lines.

I can't speak as much for CHI, because before I went to this past Gathering, the only time I've traveled from CHI was on a long-distance train, but, yes, the platforms are pretty narrow there, and the diesel fumes do accumulate under the trainshed. But the cattle lines are really, really bad, and sitting in the Metropolitan Lounge doesn't help you get around them.

In fact, these three stations are all similar in that they're terminal stations, and the real problem might be that the trains aren't ready to board early enough to disperse the crowds waiting in line. The MARC trains are usually ready for boarding at least 15 minutes before departure, sometimes they don't board regionals at WAS until 10 or even 5 minutes before departure.

At my home station, BAL, they usually don't do a ticket check (though I saw them doing it last week during the holiday rush), nad you can sit in the concourse until the train is announced. On the other hand, if you want to go down to the platform to railfan, nobody stops you. Also, when they first announce the train, that means it's 5-10 minutes out of the station. If the weather's nice, I'll go down to the platform, but this time of year (or in the middle of the summer), I think I'd wait until the final call.

 

[Nathanael]

Also, they used to let MARC passengers congregate trackside at Gate A. This helped relieve congestion in the concourse,

This. The reason there's a mess at Chicago is precisely *because* they don't let people onto the platforms. The waiting room is horrendously, and indeed dangerously overcrowded. When a train is ready to go, they spill the entire group of people boarding the train onto the platform all at once, creating an enormous crowd and a crush -- but worse, the line in the waiting room backs up and blocks everyone waiting for other trains, making even more of a dangerous crush. When there are two trains going at once, it's a nightmare in the waiting room currently, and it would be a lot safer if people just walked straight to their track without wasting time with gate dragons.

Just let people on the platforms when the train is announced (which has to be done pretty late anyway -- long after any opportunity for it to "change tracks") and you'll disperse the crowds a lot more, and a lot more quickly.

The solution to the "crowding" worries IS to let people onto the platforms.

 

[williamn]

Yes the trains might not be ready until 15 mins before departure, but that's fine, just let people look after themselves, wait where they like and display the platform / track number for the train on information screens when ready, and then let passengers make their way to the train of their own accord. Most normal people will rather wait somewhere comfy with a coffee rather than on the platform, so you needn't worry about overcrowding platforms.

Totally agree with above comment about the need for Amtrak to modernise its reservation systems - having someone do manual seat assignments on boarding is a complete waste of time for everyone - it should all be handled when booking, and assignments made then (as with most other rail systems).

 

[henryj]

Here in Houston, with our one train three times a week, they lock the door going out to the platform until the train is in the station. Then they let passengers out one at a time as the conductor checks their tickets at the door. After that they can wander the platform or go to their car as they wish. The trains stops for 30 minutes or more. The last time I rode it I just walked around the station, it's just a one room building after all, and waited outside. When the train had stopped I just walked up to my sleeper and showed the attendant my ticket and got on. I didn't feel like waiting in that line. No one said anything. In San Antonio they let passengers line up outside but keep the gate shut until the conductor is ready to check the tickets and let people board. Again, I had a sleeper so I just waited inside until the crowd thinned. Their shouldn't be any rush anyway as the train does not usually fill up in San Antonio. It continues to pick up passengers all the way to Ft Worth and beyond. Houston and San Antonio are manned stations. At the rest of the un-manned stops there are no rules, .lol. In Lordsburg they just let passengers off at a road crossing. I presume they board the same way. Alpine has no agent so there are no rules there either. People just wander about. Deming was a flag stop and we just blew right through it so I guess no one was getting on or off. I don't know the rules at El Paso, Tucson, Maricopa or Palm Springs.

 

[caravanman]

Can't hold out too much hope for high speed rail in America, if they are going to take so long drip feeding the passengers onto the train one by one...

Ed

 

[jis]

Actually at Philly they let you on the platform before the train arrives. So some stations do use brains and other well....

At Washington DC there is no justification for the idiocy that takes place, for example.

As for using Select+ to by pass lines, heck try that in Boston and watch the fun It works sometimes, but not always.

I am not sure Select+ pre-boarding is something that is promised by anyone. If it happens it is due to local staff initiative.

 

[calwatch]

If you know what you are doing and walk confidently you can get past the gate line. People do it all the time, which belies the purpose of the barrier in the first place.

 

[Ryan]

Also, they used to let MARC passengers congregate trackside at Gate A. This helped relieve congestion in the concourse,

This. The reason there's a mess at Chicago is precisely *because* they don't let people onto the platforms.

The problem with that is when that area outside Gate A is jam packed with people (as I've seen it before), when a train comes in and a trainload of people get off, it's completely impossible for them to push their way through the crowd to get inside the station building. You end up with a crowd of people on the platform trying to push out, a crowd of people on the platform trying to push in, and it's a dangerous mess.

If you hold the waiting crowd inside the Starlight Room, the arriving train can let its passengers off, they can clear the area and then the crowd can be released from the Starlight Room to go out to their train.

That's still doesn't mean the ridiculous lineup for the Regional trains is appropriate.

The whole thing is going to be a mess until more space can be made available. The station handles far more people than it is designed to.

 

[MARC Rider]

Also, they used to let MARC passengers congregate trackside at Gate A. This helped relieve congestion in the concourse,

This. The reason there's a mess at Chicago is precisely *because* they don't let people onto the platforms.

The problem with that is when that area outside Gate A is jam packed with people (as I've seen it before), when a train comes in and a trainload of people get off, it's completely impossible for them to push their way through the crowd to get inside the station building. You end up with a crowd of people on the platform trying to push out, a crowd of people on the platform trying to push in, and it's a dangerous mess.

The whole thing is going to be a mess until more space can be made available. The station handles far more people than it is designed to.

The only time I used to see the area trackside of Gate A (at WUS) jam-packed with MARC commuter waiting for trains was during the evening rush hour. At that time, there aren't a whole lot of passengers alighting from the arriving southbound MARC trains. I never noticed any real problems with the occasional Regional that might have discharged through Gate A (Most in the PM rush discharge through Gate G.)

As for whether the station handles more people than it was designed for, I wonder how things were during World War 2, when I recall reading that the station was at its peak capacity. Have we now surpassed the traffic of that time?

 

[Ryan]

Yeah, it's only a problem in the evening rush - while there may not be a lot of people trying to get access to the station (unless a Regional has to go up there, which happens), it's absolutely impossible for them to get access to the station with the crowd of people standing there.

I don't know about the numbers compared to WWII, but the station wasn't a shopping mall back then so the whole space was usable for train service. The current waiting area was designed to accommodate a fraction of the traffic that it sees today.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I'm Old enough to have taken Trains to/from Union Station before it's Decline and Rebirth as a Mall/Rail/Bus Station! As Ryan said, there was Lots More Space Available for Waiting Passengers! Also there was no MARC or VRE Commuter Trains and No Metro so even though there were Lots of Trains with Frequent Service, there Wasn't the Commuter Crush and the NEC Trains Cattle Call that we have Today!!

I personally Liked the Station Better Before it had the Mall and Before it's Decline during the Late 50s and early 60s!!! There was even Discussion about Tearing It Down like they did Penn Station in New York!! Sure Glad they Didn't!! (The Worst Thing they Did IMO was the Hideous Visitors Center they Built in the Station for the 1976 Bi-Centennial Celebration!!!

 

[Everydaymatters]

Personally, I prefer to sit down in the station until it's time to board, instead of standing on the platform to wait for my train. I'd just prefer that Amtrak get rid the gates and simply make a boarding call... saying that passengers can now board train xxx on track xxx.

Same here, and I agree that CHI is too crowded to just let people pack the platforms. Maybe there's a way to keep the automatic doors shut, the same way they're able to lock them in the "open" position. I thought I had that in my original post, but I must have cut it by accident when I deleted some other text.

I guess I'm too much of a train person - would rather wait on the platform, watch the train come in, watch off-boarding and the micro-maint, and then board. ... but, that's just me. ;-)

It's simply not possible in CHI. The platforms are narrow, and there are passengers and Red Caps everywhere. There's hardly room to move around when you're walking to/from the train during busy periods. I can't imagine doing it with more people crowding the area.

That said, I still wish there were a way to make it so.

The platforms are also narrow on the north side at CUS, but Metra doesn't seem to have any problems. Pax are able to enter the platform area when the gate is open. Sometimes I have had to wait at the train until the train door was open, but one can then board the train. There is no kindergarten walk. There is no rush of pax running over each other to choose their seats. It is all very orderly. And this is in the same station, same track layout, etc., as Amtrak uses. Granted, the pax don't usually have suitcases, but many of them do.

I agree with those who say this has to be reconsidered, but I doubt it will ever happen. Old habits are hard to break.

 

[VentureForth]

When did the 'current' practices begin? Amday 1971? Before with the legacy carriers? After with Amtrak?

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Although I'm not a big fan of the indoor waiting area itself, I have always enjoyed boarding at FTW as the platforms are open and you are welcome to wait alongside the tracks if you desire. One track is dedicated to Amtrak, another is shared by Amtrak and TRE and a third is dedicated to TRE. Between that and all the passing freight, there is always enough activity to keep you interested if you enjoy watching trains. And if both Eagles are in at the same time which they often are, the platforms themselves can be quite busy.

Since FTW is a Crew change point the Conductor(s) will often come out early, scan your ticket and make sure you are in the right spot when it is time to board. Often with the Eagles you can board very shortly after arriving pax have detrained giving you a leg up on the rush that comes from the Waiting Room when the boarding announcements begin.

 

[SarahZ]

The platforms are also narrow on the north side at CUS, but Metra doesn't seem to have any problems. Pax are able to enter the platform area when the gate is open. Sometimes I have had to wait at the train until the train door was open, but one can then board the train. There is no kindergarten walk. There is no rush of pax running over each other to choose their seats. It is all very orderly. And this is in the same station, same track layout, etc., as Amtrak uses. Granted, the pax don't usually have suitcases, but many of them do.

I agree with those who say this has to be reconsidered, but I doubt it will ever happen. Old habits are hard to break.

That's fair. I keep changing my mind back and forth.

Does Metra have as many pax as the Amtrak LD trains? I always got the sense they had fewer people, but I do realize that even with fewer people, there are more trains, and it's absolutely crazy during rush periods, so I guess that's a moot point.

Personally, I think letting people board Amtrak during an "open" period would alleviate a lot of the congestion I'm picturing.

 

[MrFSS]

The platforms are also narrow on the north side at CUS, but Metra doesn't seem to have any problems. Pax are able to enter the platform area when the gate is open. Sometimes I have had to wait at the train until the train door was open, but one can then board the train. There is no kindergarten walk. There is no rush of pax running over each other to choose their seats. It is all very orderly. And this is in the same station, same track layout, etc., as Amtrak uses. Granted, the pax don't usually have suitcases, but many of them do.

I agree with those who say this has to be reconsidered, but I doubt it will ever happen. Old habits are hard to break.

That's fair. I keep changing my mind back and forth.

Does Metra have as many pax as the Amtrak LD trains? I always got the sense they had fewer people, but I do realize that even with fewer people, there are more trains, and it's absolutely crazy during rush periods, so I guess that's a moot point.

Personally, I think letting people board Amtrak during an "open" period would alleviate a lot of the congestion I'm picturing.

I don't know the numbers, but Metra has a lot of passengers, and as you mention, rush hours are a zoo.

Last time I arrived on the EB we literally ran parallel with a Metra train into the station, arriving within seconds of each other. It was early rush hour time and the Metra wasn't too packed for discharging passengers, but there were a lot of them waiting to board.

So, on the same platform, the EB unloading, with electric carts all over the place, the Metra unloading, and the Metra reloading. It took me 15 minutes just to get near the station as I was in the rear sleeper, and I had my luggage.

 

[jis]

In someways the situation in CUS is much worse than at NY Penn. At NY Penn all platforms have multiple egress/ingress points, at least two if not three or four or more sets of stairs. At CUS all platforms appear to have exactly one egress/ingress point, that at the head-house end of the platform.

 

[I always rode the Southern]

When did the 'current' practices begin? Amday 1971? Before with the legacy carriers? After with Amtrak?

I have ridden the trains since the 50's and probably earlier, but that period I don't remember. :giggle:

In Pgh the station was never that crowded and no lines. We were allowed on the paved area when the gate opened. not stopped till getting on the train.

Amtrak years, there are less trains, less passengers at 5am or 11pm, and I have gone up to the platform to wait whenever I wanted to

In Cincinnati(my favorite station) there were many more trains and passengers. People would start lining up at the track "gates". before the announcements, and there would be several long lines that we participated in until my mother saw the light and started using redcaps. Once the gates were opened people were free to pass through without stopping to show tickets, that was done as you boarded the train.

Tampa,never was there pre-amtrak, but you are free to go outside,though not onto the boarding area until the conductor lifts your ticket, and when I was there in June I counted almost 150 in the line to lift tickets heading southbound.

WaS is a pain if you are riding coach. I have no problem with the restrictions prior to the train being ready for boarding because of the congestion issue. but why not announce ready for boarding and open it, no need for a kiddie walk.

 

[VentureForth]

When did the 'current' practices begin? Amday 1971? Before with the legacy carriers? After with Amtrak?

I have ridden the trains since the 50's and probably earlier, but that period I don't remember. :giggle: In Pgh the station was never that crowded and no lines. We were allowed on the paved area when the gate opened. not stopped till getting on the train.

Amtrak years, there are less trains, less passengers at 5am or 11pm, and I have gone up to the platform to wait whenever I wanted to

In Cincinnati(my favorite station) there were many more trains and passengers. People would start lining up at the track "gates". before the announcements, and there would be several long lines that we participated in until my mother saw the light and started using redcaps. Once the gates were opened people were free to pass through without stopping to show tickets, that was done as you boarded the train.

Tampa,never was there pre-amtrak, but you are free to go outside,though not onto the boarding area until the conductor lifts your ticket, and when I was there in June I counted almost 150 in the line to lift tickets heading southbound.

WaS is a pain if you are riding coach. I have no problem with the restrictions prior to the train being ready for boarding because of the congestion issue. but why not announce ready for boarding and open it, no need for a kiddie walk.

I appreciate that sentiment. One of the BIGGEST causes for daily delays for the Silvers seem to be the boarding process. Some of this is because the conductor on the train (or a Coach attendant) has to look at everyone's tickets, and big lines like in TPA, ORL & SAV with dozens or more people have to board the train through two doors - one for sleeper, one for coach. If the doors could be automated, the platform gated, and all doors could open at once, it would make boarding THAT much more efficient. I know it's not the same thing, but they can exchange 200 passengers in 30 seconds on an average train in Japan.

Outside of the NEC, I see "gating" in Jacksonville - where the passengers are kept inside until the train arrives, then the station attendant checks tickets (not lifting, just checking) and passengers go out to board. But there is usually a 30-45 minute service stop in JAX anyway. Maybe when the Silvers all get elevated platforms - sometime in the next quarter century.

 

[Everydaymatters]

The platforms are also narrow on the north side at CUS, but Metra doesn't seem to have any problems. Pax are able to enter the platform area when the gate is open. Sometimes I have had to wait at the train until the train door was open, but one can then board the train. There is no kindergarten walk. There is no rush of pax running over each other to choose their seats. It is all very orderly. And this is in the same station, same track layout, etc., as Amtrak uses. Granted, the pax don't usually have suitcases, but many of them do.

I agree with those who say this has to be reconsidered, but I doubt it will ever happen. Old habits are hard to break.

That's fair. I keep changing my mind back and forth.

Does Metra have as many pax as the Amtrak LD trains? I always got the sense they had fewer people, but I do realize that even with fewer people, there are more trains, and it's absolutely crazy during rush periods, so I guess that's a moot point.

Personally, I think letting people board Amtrak during an "open" period would alleviate a lot of the congestion I'm picturing.

In July 2011 to June 2012 there were 305,200 passengers each weekday. I don't know what percentage of these begin and terminate at the Ogilvie Transportation Center, but if only half use CUS, that would be 153,600 per weekday. That does not allow for pax who use Metra for intermediate stops, but that's actually not what Metra is normally used for.

Now I'm wondering how many pax use the LD trains at CUS.

 

[Nathanael]

The platforms are also narrow on the north side at CUS, but Metra doesn't seem to have any problems. Pax are able to enter the platform area when the gate is open. Sometimes I have had to wait at the train until the train door was open, but one can then board the train. There is no kindergarten walk. There is no rush of pax running over each other to choose their seats. It is all very orderly. And this is in the same station, same track layout, etc., as Amtrak uses. Granted, the pax don't usually have suitcases, but many of them do.

I agree with those who say this has to be reconsidered, but I doubt it will ever happen. Old habits are hard to break.

That's fair. I keep changing my mind back and forth.

Does Metra have as many pax as the Amtrak LD trains? I always got the sense they had fewer people, but I do realize that even with fewer people, there are more trains, and it's absolutely crazy during rush periods, so I guess that's a moot point.

Personally, I think letting people board Amtrak during an "open" period would alleviate a lot of the congestion I'm picturing.

Some Metra trains into Union Station have a LOT more passengers than the Amtrak LD trains. Most of these are on the BNSF line. A little math done on the annual ridership of the BNSF line, divided by days per year and trains per day, shows that some of the trains have to have well over 1000 passengers. They've been talking about widening the platforms for those trains by eliminating the baggage platforms on a few tracks.

It currently works, though.

I don't know about Washington DC , but at Chicago Union Station the current procedures are unnecessary and counterproductive.

Chicago does have fundamental problems currently with a shortage of waiting area; the Metropolitan Lounge needs to be moved, in a project which Amtrak half-completed and then apparently abandoned (?!?!), and the main waiting area needs to be moved back into... the main waiting room, a.k.a "Great Hall". But the kindergarten walk doesn't help the problems with the current arrangement at all, it actually makes it worse by putting even more pressure on the constricted area, namely the waiting room.

The original concourse layout, if restored, would make it pretty nearly impossible for passengers heading for one track to block passengers heading for another track. It's very wide. That said, passengers don't seem to block each other *now*, and that's with Metra passengers running loose all over the place!

 

[Nathanael]

Last time I arrived on the EB we literally ran parallel with a Metra train into the station, arriving within seconds of each other. It was early rush hour time and the Metra wasn't too packed for discharging passengers, but there were a lot of them waiting to board.

So, on the same platform, the EB unloading, with electric carts all over the place, the Metra unloading, and the Metra reloading. It took me 15 minutes just to get near the station as I was in the rear sleeper, and I had my luggage.

The problem here is actually landing the EB on the same *platform* as Metra, which is a mistake. I believe they usually try to stick to one Amtrak train per platform when the trains are big and full...