Cuts from 20% to 30%

[Kurn]

Living in a basically anti passenger rail state,I can tell you that the mantra,"nobody rides trains"IS taking hold.Judging from the comments from the Akron Beacon Journal,the image of empty or nearly empty trains whizzing by is a pretty strong one.And,of course,those empty trains are fully funded by YOUR tax dollars,taking away money from roads and bridges.The highway lobby(read construction companies)is a powerful one here in Ohio.They are partially responsible for killing 3C,and will campaign against any future projects or expansions.

As I've said before,5.00 gas won't change a thing.Oh,people will grumble,but they will pay it,as there will be no viable alternative.

 

[Eric S]

Living in a basically anti passenger rail state,I can tell you that the mantra,"nobody rides trains"IS taking hold.Judging from the comments from the Akron Beacon Journal,the image of empty or nearly empty trains whizzing by is a pretty strong one.And,of course,those empty trains are fully funded by YOUR tax dollars,taking away money from roads and bridges.The highway lobby(read construction companies)is a powerful one here in Ohio.They are partially responsible for killing 3C,and will campaign against any future projects or expansions.

As I've said before,5.00 gas won't change a thing.Oh,people will grumble,but they will pay it,as there will be no viable alternative.

What "empty trains" are you referring to? Or is that just the mythical "empty trains" that "nobody rides" that most anti-rail folks seem to refer to?

 

[Anderson]

Living in a basically anti passenger rail state,I can tell you that the mantra,"nobody rides trains"IS taking hold.Judging from the comments from the Akron Beacon Journal,the image of empty or nearly empty trains whizzing by is a pretty strong one.And,of course,those empty trains are fully funded by YOUR tax dollars,taking away money from roads and bridges.The highway lobby(read construction companies)is a powerful one here in Ohio.They are partially responsible for killing 3C,and will campaign against any future projects or expansions.

As I've said before,5.00 gas won't change a thing.Oh,people will grumble,but they will pay it,as there will be no viable alternative.

What "empty trains" are you referring to? Or is that just the mythical "empty trains" that "nobody rides" that most anti-rail folks seem to refer to?

It's the mythical ones, I believe. To be fair, Ohio has probably the worst rail service of any state north of the Ohio River: Cincinnati is served between 2 AM and 4 AM. Cleveland's service is all between 2 AM and 6 AM. Toledo can point to at least some service to Chicago at 6-6:30 AM, but the return hours are awful...you get the idea.

As a result, Ohio's annual train ridership is about 10,000 riders more than Indiana. I think the only states with lower ridership than these two east of the Mississippi are MS, AL, TN, KY, and WV...and MS is actually comparable with IN. There may not be empty trains in Ohio, but during most peoples' waking hours, there's not going to be a single person on the platforms anywhere in the state.

And Ryan: Fair catch on the gender bit.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Weve beat this old horse several times but as a retired Government employee I gotta tell you there's no way on Earth the average Civil Servant pulls in 123,000+ compensation a year,

For years civl servants at all levels, including school teachers and military members were way underpaid. Many of my friends and associates when I lived in DC would ask when I was going to come over to the private side and make some real money! Ryan hit the nail on the head, living in the DC Metro Area is VERY expensive, maybe as much so as New York and San Francisco!

Now that I live in Texas (a LOW Wage State for sure!)I see what the Government employees face as talk of layoffs/paycuts etc. swirl around but I havent heard anyone mention that Bill Gates and Quarterbacks and Singers and Movie startsa etc. are Overpaid! We have a saying here in Texas thank God for Mississippi (used to be Arkansas!) or else we'd be on the bottom in all areas of social services and government spending, yet we have the lowest taxation rate and the most billionaires and millionaoires of any state, even more so than New York IINM! People that bash Government employees need to understand that envy and throwing around Fox News and Herr Glenn Beck made up statistics dont make it true! As Mark Twain said: "There's three kinds of Lies, Lies,Damn Lies and Statistics!" :help:

 

[sunchaser]

Though I suspect that sunchaser is exaggerating the price situation he's facing, the methodology of the consumer bundle calculations can be a bit of a hash. All it takes for the inflation he faces and the official rate to differ is for his purchasing to differ from the consumer bundle in a substantial way.

Sunchaser's a she, but that's a good point - the CPI is only representative of 80% of consumers and doesn't include rural consumers, so there's a 20% chance that she's in that group.

Thank you for pointing out that I'm a she. I thought I have made that clear, mentioning that I have a husband many times. I could post a picture, but it might break the camera. :giggle:

I'm not prone to exaggeration on prices-for example, at the beginning of last year, the price for a 3 pack of "Oregon Chai" jumped from $5 to $8, for no apparent reason. Milk, half and half has stayed low, but meats, sugar, & bread & paper products have seemed to go up. We, (my husband & I) go to the store twice a month-to a warehouse store & a regular store. He's a retired Veteran, so we have a fixed income that stays the same month to month.

If you have noticed, I live in the city, very close to downtown, not the country. Gas prices are around $2.70 to $3.02, as of yesterday.

As I mentioned before, Christmas did cost more, we bought less. In 2009, we had enough extra $ to take our first ever train trip from SLC to OLW, round trip in bedrooms. We also had to fly round trip to California for a funeral. Then in October, same year, we went to Glenwood Springs by train, with a roomette & bedroom. And bought a new TV at Christmas.

This last year, no train trips, no flights anywhere, & no big present at Christmas.

So maybe I'm wrong, because I watch my food/sundries budget close enough to see a big difference?

 

[Anderson]

Sunchaser,

I'm sorry...I do tend towards a limited amount of obliviousness...I'm also something of a stats geek, which aggravates the blinders. Rest assured, you're not the first person I've mixed up genders on at a board I frequent...and I am fairly certain you won't be the last.

As to the pricing situation, part of the problem is that a "standard bundle" is assumed, and that implies a certain makeup of one's food consumption (i.e. grains versus veggies, meats vs. fruits). Also, acc. to Wikipedia, the makeup is:

Housing: 41.4%

Food and Beverage: 17.4%

Transport: 17.0%

Medical Care: 6.9%

Other: 6.9%

Apparel: 6.0%

Entertainment: 4.4%

Ryan,

It is therefore quite possible for food to shoot up and the index to remain relatively stable if housing, for example, falls (or remains steady). Similarly, if her expenses don't resemble the index (i.e. Housing 30%, Food and Beverage 25%, etc.), then changes to her expenses won't track at 1:1, and may indeed have a very weak correlation. A consumer living in downtown NYC, for example, may only spend a relatively fixed $9 a day on transportation (two round trips on the subway anywhere in the City) while one living in suburban DC may be buying 6-8 gallons of gas at the market rate per day ($15-$30 depending on gas prices) plus auto insurance, maintenance, etc. In suburban LA, this number might be even bigger. An older consumer will almost invariably spend a bit more on medical care than a younger one. And so on.

To point out an example, by virtue of owning my house free and clear, my expenses will never even resemble the CPI. Not having any mortgage expenses (my house is assessed at about $500,000...assuming that I put 20% down, 5% interest on a $400,000 loan would still come to $20,000 per year; this is also why, if I did not live in my current house, I would never have bought it) fixes me as being well outside the norm for the CPI. I also do not spend much on "upgrades" for the house (it still has the same hardwood floors it was built with about the time the oldest Amtrak equipment was being built, and the kitchen floor only got changed a few years ago because the old flooring wore out. The furnace is original, too, though that is much more regrettable as the heating is oil).

 

[Kurn]

Living in a basically anti passenger rail state,I can tell you that the mantra,"nobody rides trains"IS taking hold.Judging from the comments from the Akron Beacon Journal,the image of empty or nearly empty trains whizzing by is a pretty strong one.And,of course,those empty trains are fully funded by YOUR tax dollars,taking away money from roads and bridges.The highway lobby(read construction companies)is a powerful one here in Ohio.They are partially responsible for killing 3C,and will campaign against any future projects or expansions.

As I've said before,5.00 gas won't change a thing.Oh,people will grumble,but they will pay it,as there will be no viable alternative.

What "empty trains" are you referring to? Or is that just the mythical "empty trains" that "nobody rides" that most anti-rail folks seem to refer to?

The mythical ones,of course.Recently,it's been heavily promoted by John Kasich(R-Wall St).

 

[LA Resident]

Weve beat this old horse several times but as a retired Government employee I gotta tell you there's no way on Earth the average Civil Servant pulls in 123,000+ compensation a year,

For years civl servants at all levels, including school teachers and military members were way underpaid. Many of my friends and associates when I lived in DC would ask when I was going to come over to the private side and make some real money! Ryan hit the nail on the head, living in the DC Metro Area is VERY expensive, maybe as much so as New York and San Francisco!

Now that I live in Texas (a LOW Wage State for sure!)I see what the Government employees face as talk of layoffs/paycuts etc. swirl around but I havent heard anyone mention that Bill Gates and Quarterbacks and Singers and Movie startsa etc. are Overpaid! We have a saying here in Texas thank God for Mississippi (used to be Arkansas!) or else we'd be on the bottom in all areas of social services and government spending, yet we have the lowest taxation rate and the most billionaires and millionaoires of any state, even more so than New York IINM! People that bash Government employees need to understand that envy and throwing around Fox News and Herr Glenn Beck made up statistics dont make it true! As Mark Twain said: "There's three kinds of Lies, Lies,Damn Lies and Statistics!" :help:

Amen for someone who Texas who still knows how to think! I just read that your esteemed Governor Parry now has a $10 billion plus state deficit, and he can't blame bloated pension plans or unionized civil servants or overpaid welfare chislers or any of the usual scapegoats because Texas ranks low in all of these allegedly unAmerican benefits! Here's hoping the rest of your fellow Texans wake up to reality as well.

 

[henryj]

Sunchaser,

As to the pricing situation, part of the problem is that a "standard bundle" is assumed, and that implies a certain makeup of one's food consumption (i.e. grains versus veggies, meats vs. fruits). Also, acc. to Wikipedia, the makeup is:

Housing: 41.4%

Food and Beverage: 17.4%

Transport: 17.0%

Medical Care: 6.9%

Other: 6.9%

Apparel: 6.0%

Entertainment: 4.4%

The reason you get into these arguments is because for most retired people that own their homes housing is just a small number, not 41%. So that accentuates increases in food and transport in their analysis. So for us(I include me in that group) there is substantial inflation in the system at this time because of food and gasoline increases. Then to make that worse we are on fixed income that usually includes Social Security which basis it's increases on the formula you like so much and we get no raise to take care of the increases in our budget. Also, if you are still working, then usually increases in costs are eventually taken care of in your annual salary or wage increases which most companies base on that same formula. So if you are working now days you get no increase and your housing costs should have gone down or stayed stable, but if your retired then your cost of living is going up substantially. What this has to do with trains I have no idea.

 

[monorailfan]

"Ryan hit the nail on the head, living in the DC Metro Area is VERY expensive, maybe as much so as New York and San Francisco!"

Yes it is! So much so that I made the *choice* early in my career to get out of DC (actually, Gaithersburg, MD).

But why is it that the hub of the Federal Govt is one of, if not the most expensive places to live in the USA? Hmmmm - I've got tons of charts to back that one up!

"Government employees need to understand that envy and throwing around Fox News and Herr Glenn Beck made up statistics dont make it true!"

Nope, USA Today article. 'Federal workers earning double their private counterparts'

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/income/2010-08-10-1Afedpay10_ST_N.htm

It's time to trim the govt at all levels so that we are not flat out scrapping some programs entirely. Cut back Amtrak - Yes! Scrap? Heck no!

 

[Ryan]

That comparison says nothing about the kinds of jobs that are done that fall into each of the two categories.

 

[Anderson]

If I may, "government employees" are not the same sort of worker as the "average" worker: The government does not directly employ large swathes of the janitorial staff, etc. (a lot of things in that vein are contracted out now), and they don't have a "manufacturing" side. So it's sort of like comparing "my spending" to the CPI: If they're not identical, then differences will arise.

That said, I do understand the frustration at lots of people in the private sector having to take major wage cuts while those in government jobs aren't nearly as affected.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Nope, USA Today article. 'Federal workers earning double their private counterparts'

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/income/2010-08-10-1Afedpay10_ST_N.htm

USA Today is a Gannett rag, more suited to drying up canine urination than for reading. Quoting it as a source is not a method to shore up credibility.

BTW, I am not paying attention to, nor have any interest in, your insipid argument.

 

[Guest]

Like most things, the discussion of federal pay is vastly oversimplified. If you compare all workers to all federal workers, then yes it can appear the feds are overpaid. However, if you compare the average pay for any organization that does not have a large number of low paid, low level workers to the workforce as whole you are going to come to that same conclusion. It is an argument without a rational basis. Are you suggesting that a burger flipper should be paid the same as a biomedical researcher with years of education and experience?

Our system does not value the efforts of low skilled labor and high skill labor at the same level because they are simply not the same. Similarly, the federal sector has very little low level jobs left. They have double the employees with bachelor's degrees and higher percentages of masters and doctorates than the general workforce as a whole. Some research has suggested that some federal employees are actually underpaid compared to comparable jobs in the private sector. Also it should be noted that outside of the department of defense, which apparently is either on its own pay scale or has a large number of executive service personal, the average federal civilian employee is not making more than 153k a year as that is the limit set by the senior executive schedule which can not be exceeded by non SES employees.

http://factcheck.org/2010/12/are-federal-workers-overpaid/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Schedule

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senior_Executive_Service

 

[jis]

Interesting article in the Economist on the subject of the benefits of public sector employment, this week. Take a look at: The battle ahead: The struggle with public-sector unions should be about productivity and parity, not just spending cuts.

 

[Ryan]

That's a fantastic article, thanks for sharing it. I really should get around to subscribing...

 

[Pastor Dave]

Greetings All!

What a great thread! I live in an area which relies heavily on the hospitality industry and, from what I hear, that is a business that feels the economic pinch sooner than many other areas where folks are either union-contracted or government wage dependent.

Where do Amtrak workers fall on the continuum between being solely dependant on the current economy versus longer-term wage agreements?

In the last month 4 of my parishioners have been laid off from resorts because folks are buying more take-in pizza than taking meals in resort restaurants. Are Amtrak folks subject to the same volatility?

Dave

 

[Trogdor]

Most Amtrak workers are part of unions, and have wage agreements in place. Most of those agreements have been signed recently to carry through the next five years or so. Those not in unions are in professional/management jobs.

That said, it's generally not the economy that impacts Amtrak employees' pay, its the political/funding environment.

While the wages may be stable, hours may be cut (no overtime) and/or employees may be furloughed if cuts have to occur. Ridership has been growing pretty much every year the past decade. However, things such as congressional mandates on reducing food-service losses (cutting jobs in the dining car, destaffing some cafe cars, etc.) has still meant that some folks got laid off some time ago.