Crossing the Rockies 2016

[alan_s]

I am a new member; I just posted my intro here. I am doing preliminary planning for a couple of AMTRAK sections during a brief visit to the USA in July 2016.

I wanted to cross the spectacular Rocky Mountains by train but was disappointed to find these are the schedules for that section of the journey:

• Empire Builder West Glacier - Spokane 8:23pm - 1:40am, reverse direction 1:30am - 8:16am.
• Californian Zephyr SLC - RNO 11:30pm - 8:25am, reverse direction 4:06pm - 3:05am.

Unfortunately both pass through in the dead of night. The best daylight Rockies crossing appears to be: Californian Zephyr DEN - SLC 8:05am - 11:05pm. Are there better routes for a daylight Rocky Mountains crossing or other great scenic routes?

My other trip is likely to be Oakland to LA on the Coast Starlight after flying from SLC to SFO. I will be staying two nights in each city.

I would appreciate any information on these trips, especially on the scenery I'm likely to pass through, accommodation near the stations in the relevant cities, possible day trips etc.

Please let me know if that is too much in one topic and I'll split it into separate topics.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

SLC-RNO is desert. For the Rockies you want DEN-SLC. For the Sierra Nevadas, you want RNO-EMY. Both are on the California Zephyr

 

[alan_s]

Thanks for the clarification of the CZ route. It looks like DEN - SLC will be my preferred choice on the CZ.

I know there are several restored train tours near Denver such as the Royal Gorge or Cripple Creek and Victor. Are there any recommended by members here?

 

[Bob Dylan]

As Betty said, the Best Daylight scenery on the California Zephyr #5 is between Denver and Green River, Utah ( it will be dark from there to SLC and across the Desert to Reno.

Any particular reason you want to see Salt Lake City? Its OK,sort of boring forca largecCity, but the Mormon Temple etc. is nice. If not, I'd suggest you stay on the train overnite, instead of flying,to the Bay Area and enjoy the beautiful scenery in the Sierra Nevada including Donner Lake and Pass and all the tunnels and Mountain views along with the small mountain villages on this Route.( Lunch will be served as you roll along!)

If want to ride the Zephyr to the Bay Area from Denver( Emeryville, where the train terminates, is part of Oakland,) Amtrak Thru-way buses will take you across the Bay Bridge to San Francisco.( included in your ticket)

As for the Coast Starlight, you'll leave Eneryville/Oakland in Daylight, travel down to San Jose, climb into the Coastal Mountains,enjoy Lunch in the Pacific Parlor Car ( for Sleeping Car passengers only), wind down through a Horseshoe Curve close to San Luis Obisbo, roll along the Coast from Vandenberg AF Base past Santa Barbara as the sun starts going down as you enjoy Dinner and then into LA in the dark arriving @_Beautiful Union Station.

That's how I'd do it if you want tovsee the best scenery on the Zephyr and Cosst Starlight!

 

[alan_s]

Thanks for all the info Jim and Betty.

I prefer to break my trips with at least a day between long journeys and Salt Lake City intrigues me with its Mormon history. However, the advice from both of you has helped me modify the plan.

I am now looking at the following multi-city:

• 18 July DEN > SLC, 8:05am - 11:05pm, reserved seat upper, stay overnight.
• 19 July wander SLC, depart 11:30pm, roomette, for San Francisco/Oakland
• 20-21 July wander San Francisco, probably do aNapa wine tour.
• 22 July OKJ > LA, 8:50am - 9;00pm, reserved coach seat

I travel on a budget, hence the coach seats for DEN > SLC and OKJ>LAX. It's a pity I'll miss the Parlour Car.

How do I ensure a window seat for my coach seat bookings? I presume seats on the north side on the California Zephyr are best to avoid bright sunlight but is there a preferred side for the scenery? I am guessing the seaward side is best on the trip to LA, although I have driven the Big Sur road so that isn't vital.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Unfortunately, as many here complain about, you can't pick your seat when ordering your tickets. At some stations you'll be assigned a seat and at some they may let you pick your seat.

DEN-SLC, try to be on the right side (north side) as you leave Denver.

 

[PaulM]

Thanks for the clarification of the CZ route. It looks like DEN - SLC will be my preferred choice on the CZ.

I know there are several restored train tours near Denver such as the Royal Gorge or Cripple Creek and Victor. Are there any recommended by members here?

The Royal Gorge Route Railroad runs on the standard gauge former Denver and Rio Grande RR main line sometimes called the Tennessee Pass line near Canon City, Co, west of Pueblo. which is considerably south of Denver.

Victor and Cripple Creek are former gold mining towns in the mountains west of Colorado Springs, somewhat closer to Denver. I'm pretty sure the Victor and Cripple Creek RR is one of the many historic narrow gauge RR's in Colorado.

 

[alan_s]

Thanks all.

Is there a lounge or observation car for coach passengers on the Zephyr? If so, what are the rules of conduct for those?

I'm an Aussie; tipping is foreign to us although I've learned the rules for most services in the USA. What tips are suitable on the train for various staff?

 

[alan_s]

Unfortunately, as many here complain about, you can't pick your seat when ordering your tickets. At some stations you'll be assigned a seat and at some they may let you pick your seat.

DEN-SLC, try to be on the right side (north side) as you leave Denver.

That is disappointing. Does a tip to the conductor help? If so, how much is appropriate?

 

[alan_s]

Thanks for the clarification of the CZ route. It looks like DEN - SLC will be my preferred choice on the CZ.

I know there are several restored train tours near Denver such as the Royal Gorge or Cripple Creek and Victor. Are there any recommended by members here?

The Royal Gorge Route Railroad runs on the standard gauge former Denver and Rio Grande RR main line sometimes called the Tennessee Pass line near Canon City, Co, west of Pueblo. which is considerably south of Denver.

Victor and Cripple Creek are former gold mining towns in the mountains west of Colorado Springs, somewhat closer to Denver. I'm pretty sure the Victor and Cripple Creek RR is one of the many historic narrow gauge RR's in Colorado.

Thanks; I will investigate further.

 

[JayPea]

Just so you know, you stand a better chance of seeing the Rockies if your destination is East Glacier rather than West Glacier.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Unfortunately, as many here complain about, you can't pick your seat when ordering your tickets. At some stations you'll be assigned a seat and at some they may let you pick your seat.

DEN-SLC, try to be on the right side (north side) as you leave Denver.

That is disappointing. Does a tip to the conductor help? If so, how much is appropriate?

Do not tip the conductor. Others here may say you can try getting the coach attendant to give you a better seat with a tip.
I don't know if anyone tips the coach attendant, but most of us tip the sleeping car attendant ($10/night for decent service seems to be the norm) and the wait staff in the diner (general rule of thumb is $1-2 for breakfast, $3 for lunch, $5 for dinner). Of course, you can tip whatever you feel comfortable doing...or not even tip.

There is a lounge car on both trains that anyone can use. I would say if you've been sitting there for a while and notice that others are looking for seats, you might get up and offer yours.

Edit: reduced tip amounts - fuzzy brain yesterday

 

[alan_s]

Hmm. The tipping rules take some getting used to. I try to learn them in advance as I don't wish to offend as a guest in foreign lands.

(general rule of thumb is $2-3 for breakfast, $5 for lunch, $10 for dinner).

Is that different to the usual 15-18% rule? I don't usually have expensive meals.

There is a lounge car on both trains that anyone can use. I would say if you've been sitting there for a while and notice that others are looking for seats, you might get up and offer yours.

Good to know, thanks.

 

[alan_s]

Just so you know, you stand a better chance of seeing the Rockies if your destination is East Glacier rather than West Glacier.

Thanks. I've decided on the CZ route now, after reading the other responses.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Alan:you want to get a seat in the Sightseer Lounge on the right side of the Train ( facinh the engine) before you leave Denver. After you climb the Front Range and get to the Colorado River you'll want to be on the left side of the Train as you roll along through the Canyons next to the River which you'll follow all the way to the Grand Junction stop. ( Look for "Mooners" in the river "mooning" the train!

The trains you are riding are bi-level cars called Superliners with seating downstairs for Handicap passengers ( the Bathrooms and Luggage Racks are also downstairs) and first class airline type seats upstairs. They recline, have foot and legrests ( but no arm rest between seats)and lots of leg room!!!

There will probably be lots of people boarding when you get on in Denver, the crew tries to place people in cars by destination, ie Glenwood Springs, Salt Lake, Reno, Sacramento, Emeryville.

When it comes to meals in the Diner, Breakfast is first come, first served, Lunch and Dinner are usually by Reservation on these two Trains. Sleeping Car passengers get first choice on times ,( their meals are included in their Fare), then Coach. They make an announcement, and then the steward, called an LSA, comes around to take Reservations.Senior citizens tend to take the early times! LOL

Also the Cafe Car has snacky junk food and drink available ,@Airport prices but you can take your own food and Non- alcoholic drink aboard.( you can drink you own alcohol in your Sleeper room).

Overall Breakfastvisctge best meal, you can have a sit down fill breakfast for what the a la carte prices in the Cafe will cost you!($8-$10)

Lunch usually has a Salad, a Sandwich Special ,an Angus Burger and a Veggie Burger ( good!) as choices. About $10.

Dinner is overpriced for what is offered if you pay for it, $17-$26, plus Desert and really not worth it considering how food service and the Menus have been devalued in the last year.

Hope this helps, please read the trip Report sections of this Forum, the First Time Rider Forum and as has been said ask Questions, lots of friendly and knowledgeable people here, not just computer jockies!

 

[alan_s]

Thanks Jim for all that info.

I had a look at the Lounge Menu online: Amtrak Lounge Car Menu. As a type 2 diabetic (I blog on the subject) I am unsurprised but disappointed to find it is all carbs. I hope I can at least get bacon and eggs on board - but not in a sandwich - or I may bring my own.

I am spending some time browsing other topics already

As a totally separate subject, I have travelled on many trains all over the world, including some of the most scenic. I'll post a list if anyone is interested. I looked at the travelogues section but wasn't sure if that was the right spot to post something like that.

PS I just discovered the current menus - much better, but with the portion sizes I choose these days I may have difficulty pretending I'm under 12 for the kids menu.

 

[Bob Dylan]

You're welcome Alan! The eggs and omeletes are usually very good in the Diner, ( except for the Cardinal) but you might find the turkeybor chicken sausage better than the pork sausage or the bacon, its unusually not cooked very well in the Diners!

The Cafe Breakfast Sandwiches are McSandwich type Bisket burgers that are nuked and overpriced!

If you can eat the Continental Breakfast, about $10-$11 in the Diner, that's always a good choice:Hot or Cold Cereal w Milk ( soy may available, ask)/Yogurt/Fresh Fruit! Bisket or Croissant. (Breakfast Meats are extra for Coach Pax) Coffee, Milk or tea. No Tax/ Tip optional. ($2 is about right for good service)

 

[alan_s]

You're welcome Alan! The eggs and omeletes are usually very good in the Diner, ( except for the Cardinal) but you might find the turkeybor chicken sausage better than the pork sausage or the bacon, its unusually not cooked very well in the Diners!

The Cafe Breakfast Sandwiches are McSandwich type Bisket burgers that are nuked and overpriced!

If you can eat the Continental Breakfast, about $10-$11 in the Diner, that's always a good choice:Hot or Cold Cereal w Milk ( soy may available, ask)/Yogurt/Fresh Fruit! Bisket or Croissant. (Breakfast Meats are extra for Coach Pax) Coffee, Milk or tea. No Tax/ Tip optional. ($2 is about right for good service)

I look forward to trying turkey, it isn't a common meat here. I'll stick to the bacon, turkey or sausage and eggs; continental brekkies are far too many carbs for me.

I like a glass of wine (not at brekky ) but from the earlier comments it appears I can only bring my own in a roomette, not coach. I travel light, with two airline carry-on size bags. I presume those will be OK and i won't have to check them?

 

[Bob Dylan]

Yep, you can carry them.on easily! There's a large, open overhead luggage rack over your seat and two large ones downstairs close to the reatrooms.

The stairs are very steep and windy going up or down for those that have

Trouble walking or don't want tonlug their bags upstairs.

As for wine, the Amtrak stuff in the Cafe and Diner is not very good ( same for the Beer! The Hard Liquor is Sold in little Airline Bottles, usual suspects, but not many of each, they sell out quickly,) and is over priced!

You can consume what is purchased aboard in all the cars,( Diner,Cafe Lounge,Coach or Room)

You can discreetly have a few adult beverages from your own supply if you are low profile. Lots of us have been known to use a coffee cup, mug etc. to disguise our drinks while relaxing in the Lounge or our seat.

 

[chakk]

Enjoyable tourist trains in Colorado are all 100 km -- or much more than that -- from Denver. With a hire car and 5 to 7 days to drive around, you would be very satisfie to ride:

Georgetown Loop RR in Georgetown, Colorado

Rack railway to summit of Pikes Peak, near Colorado Springs

Royal Gorge RR near Canon City, CO

Cumbres & Toltec Scenic RR at Chama, New Mexico

Leadville & Colo RR in Leadville, CO

The colorado scenic RR in Alamosa, CO

The Durango & Silvertown RR in Durango, CO

Some of these names are wrong, but you can find all of their own websites with Google. I've riden them all, and would especially recommend the Cumbres & Toltec Scenic RR. You won't be disappointed.

 

[alan_s]

Enjoyable tourist trains in Colorado are all 100 km -- or much more than that -- from Denver. With a hire car and 5 to 7 days to drive around, you would be very satisfie to ride:

Georgetown Loop RR in Georgetown, Colorado

Unfortunately I will only have one full day. I'll be flying in from Cuba (where I also intend using trains) on the first day, staying two nights, then heading on to SLC. I'll investigate those to see if any have a day trip package, thanks for the list.

 

[Alice]

Enjoyable tourist trains in Colorado are all 100 km -- or much more than that -- from Denver. With a hire car and 5 to 7 days to drive around, you would be very satisfie to ride:

Georgetown Loop RR in Georgetown, Colorado

Rack railway to summit of Pikes Peak, near Colorado Springs

Royal Gorge RR near Canon City, CO

Cumbres & Toltec Scenic RR at Chama, New Mexico

Leadville & Colo RR in Leadville, CO

The colorado scenic RR in Alamosa, CO

The Durango & Silvertown RR in Durango, CO

Some of these names are wrong, but you can find all of their own websites with Google. I've riden them all, and would especially recommend the Cumbres & Toltec Scenic RR. You won't be disappointed.

Add Cripple Creek to chakk's good list. It takes about a week or so to ride all eight, but then you are leaving out other spectacular parts of the state and are also rushed. I did all of these one year, rented a car in Denver for two weeks and wished I had more time.

This link has a bunch of other info for other areas that you might find worthwhile to browse, lots of info all in one place. Click on USA, then Tourist train rides, then Western states, then Colorado. I disagree with their Top Ten list. In addition to the train, Silverton has an interesting mine tour, and Alamosa has a good brewery (also make root beer and cream soda).

 

[NorthShore]

(general rule of thumb is $2-3 for breakfast, $5 for lunch, $10 for dinner).

Is that different to the usual 15-18% rule? I don't usually have expensive meals.

I'd have to eat an awful lot (or have exemplary service) to offer a ten dollar tip at dinner.

I usually follow the standard percentage rules. But, then, I'm usually traveling coach and paying cash and not eating every meal for two days in the diner. I can see where when meals are included in a sleeper ticket, it might be approached differently.

I do feel a bit pressured to tip well, even for less than decent service, if I'm traveling a longer distance and will have repeated encounters with the wait staff. I don't want them angry at me when I return.

That said, Amtrak diner staff is paid well, with good benefits (unlike many typical restaurant workers.) It does sorta kill me to tip people making more money than me when the service isn't top notch, or flat out sucks.

On the other hand, I'm more than happy to lay out extra cash to someone who I believe is going above and beyond to.take good care of me. And doing so early in the trip has certainly seemed to assist in maintaining that degree of their commitment throughout several servings.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Hmm. The tipping rules take some getting used to. I try to learn them in advance as I don't wish to offend as a guest in foreign lands.

(general rule of thumb is $2-3 for breakfast, $5 for lunch, $10 for dinner).

Is that different to the usual 15-18% rule? I don't usually have expensive meals.

There is a lounge car on both trains that anyone can use. I would say if you've been sitting there for a while and notice that others are looking for seats, you might get up and offer yours.

Good to know, thanks.

Oops, I over tipped in my post. I just corrected it. $1-2 breakfast, $3 lunch & $5 dinner. That is more in line with 15-20%.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

(general rule of thumb is $2-3 for breakfast, $5 for lunch, $10 for dinner).

Is that different to the usual 15-18% rule? I don't usually have expensive meals.

I'd have to eat an awful lot (or have exemplary service) to offer a ten dollar tip at dinner.

I usually follow the standard percentage rules. But, then, I'm usually traveling coach and paying cash and not eating every meal for two days in the diner. I can see where when meals are included in a sleeper ticket, it might be approached differently.

I do feel a bit pressured to tip well, even for less than decent service, if I'm traveling a longer distance and will have repeated encounters with the wait staff. I don't want them angry at me when I return.

That said, Amtrak diner staff is paid well, with good benefits (unlike many typical restaurant workers.) It does sorta kill me to tip people making more money than me when the service isn't top notch, or flat out sucks.

On the other hand, I'm more than happy to lay out extra cash to someone who I believe is going above and beyond to.take good care of me. And doing so early in the trip has certainly seemed to assist in maintaining that degree of their commitment throughout several servings.

Oops, I over tipped in my post. I just corrected it. $1-2 breakfast, $3 lunch & $5 dinner. That is more in line with 15-20%.