cross country high speed corridors

[VentureForth]

Why are there no "through" Shinkansen connecting Tokaido and Tohoku lines at Tokyo? Is Tokyo like Chicago, where it's pretty much impossible to run through trains without major maneuvering? It seems like you should be able to ride one shinkansen pretty much the full length of Japan.

I don't think it's the layout; the tracks are adjacent. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Station

The trains are run by different companies. The Sanyo trains ran to Tokyo before the breakup of JNR. The Tōhoku line started Tokyo service after the breakup.

So every line requires a transfer? There's no sharing of track rights? (I thought the government actually still owned the tracks.) The JR web site makes it seem like you can ride one train from Tokyo to Hakata, if you go to "hyperdia" and actually look up the itinerary. (There's also just one JR web site, so they must share some things.)

I have been to Tokyo station many times but just have never ridden anything other than Tokaido line trains.

Actually, the Tokaido and Tohoku shinkansens were both JNR companies. Tohoku started 1985 between Omiya in the North and Ueno (a ward within Tokyo). Initially, the Tohoku ran South to Ueno station. Tokyo station was added in 1991. The platforms are adjacent, and I think they are even connected by train. But again, the Tohoku is run by JR East, the Tokaido run by JR Central and the Sanyo by JR West. Some trains run on Tohoku and Sanyo, ie: some Nozomi trains run from Tokyo to Hakata (Note: term to term time is 5:03, with a travel time average speed of 144 MPH). Many of the JR East trains share trackage, but it's been 18 years since I've lived there, and I couldn't map my way around JR East (with regards to Shinkansen anyway).

It's possible for the JR East trains to get on the JR Central tracks, but it doesn't happen. Tokyo Station is a terminal station for many many trains, and it is the common point to change trains. To go from the far North to the far South without changing trains requires a night train (which are slowly fading away).

 

[ralfp]

So every line requires a transfer? There's no sharing of track rights? (I thought the government actually still owned the tracks.) The JR web site makes it seem like you can ride one train from Tokyo to Hakata, if you go to "hyperdia" and actually look up the itinerary. (There's also just one JR web site, so they must share some things.)
I have been to Tokyo station many times but just have never ridden anything other than Tokaido line trains.

One can take a single train on both the Sanyo and Tokaido lines (eg. Tokyo to Hakata). One can take a JR West train solely on the Tokaido line (my first Shinkansen ride was on a JR West 500 series from Nagoya to Shin-Yokohama).

I was suggesting that this relationship might exist because it predated the JNR breakup, whereas there obviously was no through train on the Tokaido and Tohoku lines before the split. It's just a guess, but I'm suggesting it's a historical artifact.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

I think you're looking for the longest distance, not time.

I accurately stated what I thought I was looking for, but now that I'm seeing the answers,. I think you probably are right about this.

For a single train journey, my guess is the that Tōkaidō and Sanyō lines together would be up there (over 1060km from Tokyo to Hakata), though the Tōkaidō line is limited to 270kph. That's over half the total distance of France's TGV network.
As for the longest non-stop trip, I'm too lazy to look, but the Nagoya-Shin-Yokohama trip (316km) that I took a few years back was pretty long, though Paris-London is probably longer.

1060 km is about 659 miles. Paris to London appears to be about 283 miles.

If Paris to London is the longest trip you care about at all, there's a decent argument that 110 MPH as the top speed, if you really don't ever have to slow down for curves, would get you the magic three hours that would prevent the typical non-railfan from taking the plane. So it may very well be the case that in France, the travel times are already fast enough that there's little benefit to greater speed, in much the same way that some of us are saying that upgrading the 135 MPH sections of the NEC between NYP and WAS to 150 MPH is not terribly exciting once you realize how little time really might be saved.

New York City to Chicago is a bit more than that 659 miles, and New York City to Chicago ought to be an extremely popular city pair. I am thinking that the US being more spread out than other parts of the world that have high speed rail experience probably argues for using faster speeds to make our times between major city pairs more competitive in spite of the greater physical distances involved.

 

[ralfp]

As for the longest non-stop trip, I'm too lazy to look, but the Nagoya-Shin-Yokohama trip (316km) that I took a few years back was pretty long, though Paris-London is probably longer.

1060 km is about 659 miles. Paris to London appears to be about 283 miles.

I was talking about the longest NON-STOP trip (regularly scheduled). Paris-London is done non-stop on the Eurostar. 283 miles is definitely longer than Nagoya to [shin]-Yokohama. There are no non-stop trains between Tokyo and Hakata, though there are direct trains without change of gauge.

 

[Guest]

"ICE-Sprinter" trains take 3:24 for the nonstop run between Berlin Spandau and Frankfurt, though I am not sure of the track mileage. The nonstop Madrid-Barcelona AVE services cover 621km in 2:38. Both are beaten by the CRH trains that travel nonstop from Shenyang to Beijing, covering the 703km in 3:99.

 

[Mike S.]

I've been told that there are one or two sections of 90MPH running west of Albany, but I'm not sure how long they are or just where they are.

There's about 15 miles of 110 mph track between Hudson and Albany, several more miles between Albany and Schenectady, and then some 100 mph track between Schenectady and Amsterdam.

Yea...VT's right. On my last LSL trip from Buffalo to NYP, my garmin Etrek GPS showed us hitting 95-96mph BEFORE albany.

See page 13 of this document: http://www.cdta.org/hsr/Executive_Summary-...Res-1-11-06.pdf

Excellent visual of track usage/speed/owership.

My question is..how long will it take to get some PTC up and running? There are lots of areas that could see 90mph service assuming it is Class 5 track (which I think it is). 10mph is not a big deal when you're already going 135+ like the acela, but IS a big deal when you top out at 80mph. Sure..some of NYS mainline is curvy, but there are plenty of stretches of straight to slight turned running. BUF to Batavia, NY (halfway to rochester) is practically a straight line...thats some 20+ miles.

Faster times would mean more ridership and more money to add to future enhancements...I firmly belive its like a snowball effect.

Mike S.