Couple EB questions

[atm79]

Howdy folks,

I'm getting ready to buy a ticket for my first LD train trip next spring and I'm hoping you all can help me out with a couple questions / concerns...

1. I live in PDX and will be taking the EB to CHI. I realize I could just board the train here and go all the way through but I've been up and down the gorge on both sides many times and while it never ever gets old, I'd like to see something new. I'm looking at taking the Cascades up to SEA and boarding the EB there. I can get a ticket on #506 connecting to #8 but the connection time is only :55. Is that sufficient? I have no experience with the Cascades so I don't know what the OT performance is like. The alternative is #500 but that leaves over 4.5 hours of wait time in SEA.

2. The way I understand it, there's just one sleeper out of PDX and it and the rest of the consist gets attached to the end of the train in SPK. The sleepers out of SEA are towards the front of the train. Would one or the other be more desirable or is that more of a personal preference thing? I'm willing to take the EB directly out of PDX if it's a big difference (and it might save a few bucks too but that wouldn't force the decision).

3. Target time frame is the very end of April into early May. Is there enough daylight that time of year to have a good chance at enjoying the scenery during the western portions of the trip?

Thanks much for your help and advice!

 

[TrainLoverJoy]

I took the EB last April 25, and I took it again last week. There was plenty of daylight the end of April.....not so much last week. If the train horn is something that would bother you, especially sleeping, take the Portland route. If it doesn't (I happen to love it) then go with Seattle.....you are definitely much closer to the horn, just 4 or 5 cars back from the engine.

 

[Blackwolf]

Doing some tenative scheduling for a trip potentially stemming from Portland, I too am looking at either taking #28 straight from PDX or a Cascades up to SEA and then onto #8. If more time on the train is something you may desire, then I'd do the Seattle connection. But be sure to nab a Business Class seat for the small upcharge of $17 if you do. It would make the trip a bit more enjoyable knowing your seat is assigned and a touch more comfortable than a standard coach spot. You also get one free soft drink and a ride in a Talgo trainset (if you've not ridden in one before, and this is a potential interest.)

The proximity to the locomotive is one thing to consider, the other is food. Out of Portland on #28, sleeping car passengers have a boxed dinner that has been premade for you by a contract kitchen. While I have not had this dinner myself, many say the food is fantastic. You only get what they serve, though, as there are no menu choices. Out of Seattle on #8, the train has a full diner and you can have a traditional full-service meal that is included with your accomodation.

 

[zephyr17]

While BNSF dispatches the Cascades service well, personally I would not be comfortable with a 55 minute connect time.

 

[manderson]

While BNSF dispatches the Cascades service well, personally I would not be comfortable with a 55 minute connect time.

I agree with this, would consider less an hour to be cutting it a little fine.

I'm in the flip side of your coin. Living in Seattle, I've taken the EB from here several times. Last spring I took the Cascades down to Portland to experience that portion of the EB route. The boxed dinner out of Portland was great. I think there was a choice of two, and I had the cold salmon - excellent.

Another thing to consider: the Portland car is at the end of the train, so it's a bit of a trek through coach to reach the lounge car and the diner. This may or not be an issue for you.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Howdy folks,

I'm getting ready to buy a ticket for my first LD train trip next spring and I'm hoping you all can help me out with a couple questions / concerns...

1. I live in PDX and will be taking the EB to CHI. I realize I could just board the train here and go all the way through but I've been up and down the gorge on both sides many times and while it never ever gets old, I'd like to see something new. I'm looking at taking the Cascades up to SEA and boarding the EB there. I can get a ticket on #506 connecting to #8 but the connection time is only :55. Is that sufficient? I have no experience with the Cascades so I don't know what the OT performance is like. The alternative is #500 but that leaves over 4.5 hours of wait time in SEA.

2. The way I understand it, there's just one sleeper out of PDX and it and the rest of the consist gets attached to the end of the train in SPK. The sleepers out of SEA are towards the front of the train. Would one or the other be more desirable or is that more of a personal preference thing? I'm willing to take the EB directly out of PDX if it's a big difference (and it might save a few bucks too but that wouldn't force the decision).

3. Target time frame is the very end of April into early May. Is there enough daylight that time of year to have a good chance at enjoying the scenery during the western portions of the trip?

Thanks much for your help and advice!

1. I would not risk a 0:55 connection. 4:30 may seem like a long time but you can walk around Seattle for a while.

2. First of all, at the rear of the train, you get the "railfan window" out the back. Second, you get less horn noise but it's not all the bad. Third, you get that nice cold dinner out of PDX but the hot full meal is great too. Fourth, out of PDX you get the Sightseer Lounge, out of SEA you get the Diner but no Sighhtseer Lounge. You choice what you want.

3. Should be enough.

 

[atm79]

Thanks for the replies! I'm not the biggest fan of Seattle (I left Seattle for Portland) so that's why I was trying to avoid the long layover there but it sounds like planning on it would be the safest bet. I'll see if one of my old friends is available for lunch or coffee. Since this is my first trip, I think I'll stick with the new scenery. I'm a huge fan of the gorge and getting to see it from a different perspective / environment would be fantastic but completely new scenery would be even better. I'll likely take the EB again in the future so I can take #28 then.

 

[TrainLoverJoy]

Thanks for the replies! I'm not the biggest fan of Seattle (I left Seattle for Portland) so that's why I was trying to avoid the long layover there but it sounds like planning on it would be the safest bet. I'll see if one of my old friends is available for lunch or coffee. Since this is my first trip, I think I'll stick with the new scenery. I'm a huge fan of the gorge and getting to see it from a different perspective / environment would be fantastic but completely new scenery would be even better. I'll likely take the EB again in the future so I can take #28 then.

I haven't even been home a week from my Michigan to Seattle trip on EB, and I'm dreaming of another EB trip.....this time with the Portland option. I didn't know it followed the Gorge.......(which I visited while in Seattle and Portland last week).....and would love to see it from the Washington side.

I'm already reserved to take Chicago to L..A on the Chief, drive the coast to San Francisco and take the Zephyr back to Chicago the end of April, but I don't know if I can wait that long.

I doubt if I can talk my husband into another EB trip so soon even tho I found some $229 roomettes coming up....(it would be a round trip on the same day we get to Portland....we don't need to see the sights of Seattle and Portland again so soon).....just want the "joy ride." (And my name is Joy!)

 

[atm79]

I'm already reserved to take Chicago to L..A on the Chief, drive the coast to San Francisco and take the Zephyr back to Chicago the end of April, but I don't know if I can wait that long.

That sounds like a great trip! I'm already looking into what my next trip might be and I'm leaning heavily towards the Chief out of CHI. I may do the Coast Starlight sometime in the winter or early spring since I can do that over a three day weekend.

 

[gn2276]

506 is a good conection to TR8. 8 will hold for 506 if it is late.

 

[zephyr17]

Well, I have to eat my words. At 55 minutes, the 506/8 connection would ordinarily fall below the usual 60 minute minimum for a guaranteed connection. However, after gn2276's post, I did a test booking that would force a Cascades/8 connection (Kelso-Wenatchee). 506/8 is a valid connection on the website, so it is indeed a guaranteed connection.

 

[atm79]

Well, I have to eat my words. At 55 minutes, the 506/8 connection would ordinarily fall below the usual 60 minute minimum for a guaranteed connection. However, after gn2276's post, I did a test booking that would force a Cascades/8 connection (Kelso-Wenatchee). 506/8 is a valid connection on the website, so it is indeed a guaranteed connection.

Yeah, it does show up, but what exactly does a guaranteed connection mean? #500 could be 3 hours late and I'd still make the connection. If #506 is 3 hours late would #8 still hold? Trains are new to me. I work for an airline and am actually in a position to make the decisions regarding holding for late flights...we have a point at which we no longer consider a hold either based on number of passengers or the duration of the hold needed or both.

Bigger picture, I'm building in a delay buffer on the back end of the trip as it's possible I'll be flying out of Chicago after the train. If I end up doing that, I'd buy that ticket the day after the train's arrival to give me a good 24 hour buffer. All that would be lost and I'd eat the plane ticket if #506 is so late that #8 leaves first and I get booked out on the next day.

 

[zephyr17]

Well, I have to eat my words. At 55 minutes, the 506/8 connection would ordinarily fall below the usual 60 minute minimum for a guaranteed connection. However, after gn2276's post, I did a test booking that would force a Cascades/8 connection (Kelso-Wenatchee). 506/8 is a valid connection on the website, so it is indeed a guaranteed connection.

Yeah, it does show up, but what exactly does a guaranteed connection mean? #500 could be 3 hours late and I'd still make the connection. If #506 is 3 hours late would #8 still hold? Trains are new to me. I work for an airline and am actually in a position to make the decisions regarding holding for late flights...we have a point at which we no longer consider a hold either based on number of passengers or the duration of the hold needed or both.

Bigger picture, I'm building in a delay buffer on the back end of the trip as it's possible I'll be flying out of Chicago after the train. If I end up doing that, I'd that ticket the day after the train's arrival to give me a good 24 hour buffer. All that would be lost and I'd eat the plane ticket if #506 is so late that #8 leaves first and I get booked out on the next day.

The definition of guaranteed connection is Amtrak will get you there and take care of you in the process. It does not mean they will hold a train indefinitely. In the case of a 3 hour late train, the chances of them holding the Builder is pretty slim. 15 minutes after 8's scheduled departure, they'd probably hold it. In between it depends on factors such as host RR operating conditions and things like how many passengers have to make the connection.

If they don't hold the train, what Amtrak does varies. In some cases they just change your reservation to the next day, refund your sleeper accommodation charge if sleepers aren't available, put you up for the night and give you money for meals. In some cases they'll do a bus bridge if there are enough pax, they can arrange a charter, and the bus could make it. I've not heard of them doing a bus bridge for a Cascades/8 connection but that does not mean they don't do it. Tacoma-Spokane could work in some cases.

Bottom line is you won't know how Amtrak will protect your trip on a guaranteed connection until it happens. If you really, really have to make the connection, build in some slack.

 

[AlanB]

Well, I have to eat my words. At 55 minutes, the 506/8 connection would ordinarily fall below the usual 60 minute minimum for a guaranteed connection. However, after gn2276's post, I did a test booking that would force a Cascades/8 connection (Kelso-Wenatchee). 506/8 is a valid connection on the website, so it is indeed a guaranteed connection.

That is correct, 506 is the guaranteed connection to train #8. Several years ago I was doing an award redemption and I was very uncomfortable with that connection and asked to go on the earlier train. We actually wanted some time to wander in Seattle. And the agent even agreed with us, yet she was unable to book that earlier train for us on the same reservation using points. The only way she could book it was if we turned things into two awards, one for the EB and one for the Cascades service.

So reluctantly I went with 506, since it was considered the connection and because generally the Cascades is really reliable. Of course on our trip BNSF has a bridge that gets stuck open south of Seattle delaying us for close to an hour IIRC. Eventually they got it closed and on we went and the conductor assured us that they were indeed holding the EB for connecting passengers.

The pulled our train in on the track on the opposite side of the platform from the EB, we got off walked across the platform and found our sleeper. Never saw the inside of the station, much less anything of Seattle; other than what one sees from the window of the train. The EB left about 15 minutes late by the time they transfered some luggage, not our, and the connecting passengers.

So atm79, they do indeed hold, at least for a bit. Just how long they'd push it I'm not sure. And it would not surprise me that the amount of hold they'd allow is less today with the poor on time performance already. Back then OTP for the EB was much better than today.

I was sitting on pins & needles listening to my scanner and the various conversations on when the bridge might reopen and just how long we might be delayed. Only you can decide how much you're willing to gamble; but as noted by others Amtrak will take care of you if you do misconnect. It could be to bus you to catch up, or it could be a free hotel on Amtrak and the next day's EB.

 

[atm79]

Well, I have to eat my words. At 55 minutes, the 506/8 connection would ordinarily fall below the usual 60 minute minimum for a guaranteed connection. However, after gn2276's post, I did a test booking that would force a Cascades/8 connection (Kelso-Wenatchee). 506/8 is a valid connection on the website, so it is indeed a guaranteed connection.

That is correct, 506 is the guaranteed connection to train #8. Several years ago I was doing an award redemption and I was very uncomfortable with that connection and asked to go on the earlier train. We actually wanted some time to wander in Seattle. And the agent even agreed with us, yet she was unable to book that earlier train for us on the same reservation using points. The only way she could book it was if we turned things into two awards, one for the EB and one for the Cascades service.

So reluctantly I went with 506, since it was considered the connection and because generally the Cascades is really reliable. Of course on our trip BNSF has a bridge that gets stuck open south of Seattle delaying us for close to an hour IIRC. Eventually they got it closed and on we went and the conductor assured us that they were indeed holding the EB for connecting passengers.

The pulled our train in on the track on the opposite side of the platform from the EB, we got off walked across the platform and found our sleeper. Never saw the inside of the station, much less anything of Seattle; other than what one sees from the window of the train. The EB left about 15 minutes late by the time they transfered some luggage, not our, and the connecting passengers.

So atm79, they do indeed hold, at least for a bit. Just how long they'd push it I'm not sure. And it would not surprise me that the amount of hold they'd allow is less today with the poor on time performance already. Back then OTP for the EB was much better than today.

I was sitting on pins & needles listening to my scanner and the various conversations on when the bridge might reopen and just how long we might be delayed. Only you can decide how much you're willing to gamble; but as noted by others Amtrak will take care of you if you do misconnect. It could be to bus you to catch up, or it could be a free hotel on Amtrak and the next day's EB.

This is great information, thank you! I'm thinking it'll just be best to book the earlier Cascades. Knowing me, if I didn't do that I'd probably be stressing the whole trip to SEA rather than enjoying the view and relaxing...it's a vacation after all!

 

[Ispolkom]

That is correct, 506 is the guaranteed connection to train #8. Several years ago I was doing an award redemption and I was very uncomfortable with that connection and asked to go on the earlier train. We actually wanted some time to wander in Seattle. And the agent even agreed with us, yet she was unable to book that earlier train for us on the same reservation using points. The only way she could book it was if we turned things into two awards, one for the EB and one for the Cascades service.

Last year, on the other hand, I had no problem booking the earlier #500 Cascade (arrives in Seattle at 12:00 noon) connecting to #8 as one AGR award. As often happens, what's impossible for one AGR agent is no problem for another. Or perhaps the rules have changed. Maybe it was my devilish charm. Who knows?

In any case, I've sweated out the connection between the northbound Coast Starlight and the eastbound Empire Builder often enough to avoid such a tight connection if possible.

This is great information, thank you! I'm thinking it'll just be best to book the earlier Cascades. Knowing me, if I didn't do that I'd probably be stressing the whole trip to SEA rather than enjoying the view and relaxing...it's a vacation after all!

I really think that this is the right move.

 

[Karl1459]

If you are parking a car for the duration consider departing from Vancouver, WA... Lots of free parking. Of course PDX has excellent transit access too.

 

[atm79]

If you are parking a car for the duration consider departing from Vancouver, WA... Lots of free parking. Of course PDX has excellent transit access too.

I'll be using VAN for a points run in the next few weeks - that's a great tip! I have access to free parking out at PDX though so I'll be MAXing it in to Union Station for my trip. It works best that way since I'll be returning by air.

 

[Big Green Chauvanist]

Howdy folks,

I'm getting ready to buy a ticket for my first LD train trip next spring and I'm hoping you all can help me out with a couple questions / concerns...

3. Target time frame is the very end of April into early May. Is there enough daylight that time of year to have a good chance at enjoying the scenery during the western portions of the trip?

Thanks much for your help and advice!

Daylight savings time will already be in effect, so you should have good daytime views of the Washington Cascades and then the descent into Wenatchee through the apple and pear orchards, whose trees may be in bloom during that time frame. IMHO, the Washington Cascades is every bit as interesting and scenic as the Glacier area. The only downside is that, with no dome car, in a sleeper you are limited to one side viewing, unless the roomette across from you is unoccupied.

 

[atm79]

IMHO, the Washington Cascades is every bit as interesting and scenic as the Glacier area. The only downside is that, with no dome car, in a sleeper you are limited to one side viewing, unless the roomette across from you is unoccupied.

I don't doubt it. From all that I've seen, the EB trip through the Cascades just looks fantastic. No dome car is a bummer but would the dining car be the most suitable substitution? If we're on-time, I could be having dinner while we're winding our way through, no?

 

[Big Green Chauvanist]

IMHO, the Washington Cascades is every bit as interesting and scenic as the Glacier area. The only downside is that, with no dome car, in a sleeper you are limited to one side viewing, unless the roomette across from you is unoccupied.

I don't doubt it. From all that I've seen, the EB trip through the Cascades just looks fantastic. No dome car is a bummer but would the dining car be the most suitable substitution? If we're on-time, I could be having dinner while we're winding our way through, no?

Good point. Yes! You can be the judge, looking at the schedule and actual time of departure as to the best time for dinner. I'd say shortly after leaving Everett would be good timing. Then linger a table as long as possible!

 

[TrainLoverJoy]

IMHO, the Washington Cascades is every bit as interesting and scenic as the Glacier area. The only downside is that, with no dome car, in a sleeper you are limited to one side viewing, unless the roomette across from you is unoccupied.

I don't doubt it. From all that I've seen, the EB trip through the Cascades just looks fantastic. No dome car is a bummer but would the dining car be the most suitable substitution? If we're on-time, I could be having dinner while we're winding our way through, no?

Did I miss something? I took the EB on April 27 this Spring. There was plenty of daylight when we went through, and there WAS an observation car....and that's where you'd want to be. I'd suggest getting there early tho, it fills up quickly.

 

[Jimhudsonsnilnt account]

IMHO, the Washington Cascades is every bit as interesting and scenic as the Glacier area. The only downside is that, with no dome car, in a sleeper you are limited to one side viewing, unless the roomette across from you is unoccupied.

I don't doubt it. From all that I've seen, the EB trip through the Cascades just looks fantastic. No dome car is a bummer but would the dining car be the most suitable substitution? If we're on-time, I could be having dinner while we're winding our way through, no?

Did I miss something? I took the EB on April 27 this Spring. There was plenty of daylight when we went through, and there WAS an observation car....and that's where you'd want to be. I'd suggest getting there early tho, it fills up quickly.

The Sightseer Lounge Car is on the Portland Section of the Empire Builder to/from Spokanne!(#28/#27) If there was one on the Seattle Section (#7/#8)you got a Bonus!

 

[TrainLoverJoy]

IMHO, the Washington Cascades is every bit as interesting and scenic as the Glacier area. The only downside is that, with no dome car, in a sleeper you are limited to one side viewing, unless the roomette across from you is unoccupied.

I don't doubt it. From all that I've seen, the EB trip through the Cascades just looks fantastic. No dome car is a bummer but would the dining car be the most suitable substitution? If we're on-time, I could be having dinner while we're winding our way through, no?

Did I miss something? I took the EB on April 27 this Spring. There was plenty of daylight when we went through, and there WAS an observation car....and that's where you'd want to be. I'd suggest getting there early tho, it fills up quickly.

The Sightseer Lounge Car is on the Portland Section of the Empire Builder to/from Spokanne!(#28/#27) If there was one on the Seattle Section (#7/#8)you got a Bonus!

Maybe I DID miss something. I thought since he was talking about having dinner around the time he'd be going through the Glaciers he was talking about west bound #7.

 

[Big Green Chauvanist]

IMHO, the Washington Cascades is every bit as interesting and scenic as the Glacier area. The only downside is that, with no dome car, in a sleeper you are limited to one side viewing, unless the roomette across from you is unoccupied.

I don't doubt it. From all that I've seen, the EB trip through the Cascades just looks fantastic. No dome car is a bummer but would the dining car be the most suitable substitution? If we're on-time, I could be having dinner while we're winding our way through, no?

Did I miss something? I took the EB on April 27 this Spring. There was plenty of daylight when we went through, and there WAS an observation car....and that's where you'd want to be. I'd suggest getting there early tho, it fills up quickly.

The Sightseer Lounge Car is on the Portland Section of the Empire Builder to/from Spokanne!(#28/#27) If there was one on the Seattle Section (#7/#8)you got a Bonus!

Maybe I DID miss something. I thought since he was talking about having dinner around the time he'd be going through the Glaciers he was talking about west bound #7.

Nope. Dinner while passing through the Washington Cascades.