Could This Save Amtrak?

[VentureForth]

I've mentioned many times in the past that Amtrak could benefit by better commercializing their stations. Ticket revenue ain't gonna cut it.

This report from Japan demonstrates how one struggling rural train company boosted ticket revenue, but more importantly, merchandising.

I have always felt that, especially off the NEC, our stations - even well patronized, staffed, busy stations - are nothing more than a roof overhead to wait for the often late ride out of town.

It would be neat to see an entrepreneur come in and set up a newsstand with local merchandise, snacks, Coke products (ok, that's personal), etc.

I just see so much missed opportunity.

Note: I don't see a cutsie fad going over that well in Savannah, but why not a Punxsutawney Phil gift shop in Punxsutawney?

 

[John Bobinyec]

A private entrepreneur coming in and setting up shop would help pay for the overhead of the station, but to whomever owns the station. The big stations, which are owned by Amtrak, already have such enterprises. The little stations are probably not owned by Amtrak. So how will this help Amtrak, if the little stations get some small businesses?

jb

 

[jis]

Also this will work only where there are considerable number of trains running through the station producing enough foot traffic to make it worth the while of any entrepreneur. Works also if the station is a multipurpose facility producing additional non-train related foot traffic. but usually such facilities are not Amtrak owned.

For example it would be unlikely for anyone to setup shop at the proverbial Beaumont Amslab.

OTOH, the rehabbed/rebuilt stations on the Empire Corridor that are undergoing rebuilds now all have facility for vendors. And as a matter of fact, the Schenectady Station may even be owned by Amtrak from what we are hearing now. Rochester will be owned by New York State or the City or jointly, but not Amtrak.

All Amtrak NEC stops in NJ have vendor(s) and huge foot traffic, but none of the stations are owned by Amtrak.

 

[Guest]

It would be neat to see an entrepreneur come in and set up a newsstand with local merchandise, snacks, Coke products (ok, that's personal), etc.

A private entrepreneur coming in and setting up shop would help pay for the overhead of the station, but to whomever owns the station.

Does the "hot dog cart" at the Orlando station pay Amtrak or CSX (or nobody) for the rights to setup there?

 

[benjibear]

NJ probably has a high amount of commuters and probably most of the vendor's business is from those commuters taking NJ transit.

I see station amenities as one of Amtrak's biggest problems with increasing ridership. Namely the lack of reasonable priced parking and the availability of rental cars.

I often thought some partnerships with local tourist destinations would be good on the lines that have frequent trains. I look at the Keystone service. Let's say there was a connection from Elizabethtown to Hershey Park or Lancaster to the tourists destinations around there (i.e. Strasburg Railroad,Dutch Wonderland, outlets, etc.). Can you increase tourism to these areas from Philadelphia or Philadelphia?

I often see places that would be nice to go but either there is a lack of public transportation or the public transportation is not visitor friendly to find where to go. I get tired of driving everywhere and can see this as a great opportunity.

 

[Ted Bell]

I believe that one of the benefits pointed out by the article is that ridership was increased. Significantly. Seems like a good thing. But does Amtrak have capacity for increased ridership?

 

[VentureForth]

A private entrepreneur coming in and setting up shop would help pay for the overhead of the station, but to whomever owns the station. The big stations, which are owned by Amtrak, already have such enterprises. The little stations are probably not owned by Amtrak. So how will this help Amtrak, if the little stations get some small businesses?
jb

Whereas I agree with your statements, I will contradict my own with question "Why doens't AMTRAK set up kiosks at stations?"

For the rest of y'all, I really do mean outside the NEC.

Let's take my home station for example. Savannah station is owned by the City of Savannah. It is staffed and open from 4 PM until around 10 AM. When on time, the trains are there from 7:30 PM with the arrival of the Silver Meteor until the departure of the Palmetto at 8:30 AM. In those 13 hours, approximately 200 people either board or disembark. If, on average, you could squeeze $2 from each patron, there is the potential of around $12000 of revenue per month. With regional, targeted merchandise, that potential could climb way higher.

Back to Japan for a moment. One of the BIG merchandising opportunities lies in Eki-Ben. Eki-Ben are boxed lunches that have a regional flair to them. Some people travel the country just to sample different Eki-Ben. My point is, with collaborative effort, Amtrak and local municipalities have the potential to not only increase revenue with the passengers that already will patronize the station, but as the article describes, create a new market and a new reason for people to come through the station - whether or not by train.

 

[jis]

I love the Savannah Station and use it at least once or twice a year. It sure would be nice if there were a little coffee and snacks shop there, though I doubt it is sustainable without some subsidy with the present amount of foot traffic. Unfortunately that station is too far away from anywhere with significant foot traffic potential. But again it is a very nice and well maintained station.

OTOH, a place like RVR is ideal for such. But then again it is the SEC, if not the NEC there.

In my experience disembarking passengers seldom hang out at the station let alone buy much there, unless it is something like Washington Union Station or New York Penn Station. The real customers are typically embarking passengers.

 

[tonys96]

I have often wondered why there is nothing inside the Dallas Union Station. No vendors at all, but it is the Amtrak station, terminus for the TRE and a major Dart stop.

It looks like a prime place for vendors, like at FTW. (Hot Dogs, Subway, Blue Bell Ice Cream, etc.)

 

[Karl1459]

NJ probably has a high amount of commuters and probably most of the vendor's business is from those commuters taking NJ transit.
I see station amenities as one of Amtrak's biggest problems with increasing ridership. Namely the lack of reasonable priced parking and the availability of rental cars.

I often thought some partnerships with local tourist destinations would be good on the lines that have frequent trains. I look at the Keystone service. Let's say there was a connection from Elizabethtown to Hershey Park or Lancaster to the tourists destinations around there (i.e. Strasburg Railroad,Dutch Wonderland, outlets, etc.). Can you increase tourism to these areas from Philadelphia or Philadelphia?

I often see places that would be nice to go but either there is a lack of public transportation or the public transportation is not visitor friendly to find where to go. I get tired of driving everywhere and can see this as a great opportunity.

Just brainstorming.

As an opportunity for Amtrak, specifically on LD trains, would be for Amtrak to enter a partnership with one or more car rental agencies where OBS or ticket agents can act as the rental agent. The specific advantages Amtrak passengers could have are having all paperwork complete and the car waiting at the station. With increasing internet access most of the rental effort should be able to be done on line limiting Amtrak's employee time.

Car keys could possibly be handled on board, though the station agent or a locked box at unmaned stations would be more likely. The actual rental agency would have ample time to deliver cars to a station.

In many smaller towns without a big name rental agency there are auto dealerships who have car rental... opportunity for partnership.

 

[amtkstn]

Several stations including my home station of Newton Ks has that option.

 

[John Bobinyec]

A private entrepreneur coming in and setting up shop would help pay for the overhead of the station, but to whomever owns the station. The big stations, which are owned by Amtrak, already have such enterprises. The little stations are probably not owned by Amtrak. So how will this help Amtrak, if the little stations get some small businesses?
jb

Whereas I agree with your statements, I will contradict my own with question "Why doens't AMTRAK set up kiosks at stations?"

For the rest of y'all, I really do mean outside the NEC.

Let's take my home station for example. Savannah station is owned by the City of Savannah. It is staffed and open from 4 PM until around 10 AM. When on time, the trains are there from 7:30 PM with the arrival of the Silver Meteor until the departure of the Palmetto at 8:30 AM. In those 13 hours, approximately 200 people either board or disembark. If, on average, you could squeeze $2 from each patron, there is the potential of around $12000 of revenue per month. With regional, targeted merchandise, that potential could climb way higher.

Back to Japan for a moment. One of the BIG merchandising opportunities lies in Eki-Ben. Eki-Ben are boxed lunches that have a regional flair to them. Some people travel the country just to sample different Eki-Ben. My point is, with collaborative effort, Amtrak and local municipalities have the potential to not only increase revenue with the passengers that already will patronize the station, but as the article describes, create a new market and a new reason for people to come through the station - whether or not by train.

It seems like what you're describing is merchandising opportunities for the vendors - not Amtrak itself, per se. Sure, better amenities at the stations improves the passenger's experience which makes for more satisfied customers, etc..., but there is no direct revenue increase to Amtrak because a particular station is very nice - unless you want Amtrak to charge $2 more per ticket for each person that either embarks or disembarks there.

jb

 

[afigg]

I see station amenities as one of Amtrak's biggest problems with increasing ridership. Namely the lack of reasonable priced parking and the availability of rental cars. ...

I often see places that would be nice to go but either there is a lack of public transportation or the public transportation is not visitor friendly to find where to go. I get tired of driving everywhere and can see this as a great opportunity.

Need a respectable volume of passenger traffic at a station to support a rental car desk and facility. Not many stations get enough Amtrak traffic by itself to get a Hertz or Avis interested. That is where the push to build intermodal stations or restore downtown stations as the center transit hub will help. Get Amtrak, intercity bus service, local transit bus, streetcar or light rail stop at a single location, preferably downtown, that will lead to more stations with newsstands or retail outlets. And more with rental car facilities at the station or nearby or via rail transit access to the local airport.
Outside of the NEC and CA, Amtrak will be moving in the next several years to new or restored intermodal stations with local rail transit in Miami (Central Station at the airport), St. Paul, Denver. The Norfolk station is on The Tide light rail line. While Amtrak will still have isolated stations on the outskirts of some larger cities, the overall situation for stations with local transit connections and car rental options has been and will continue to improve. Easy to overlook this underlying trend while watching the gridlock and battles in Congress over transportation funding.

 

[VentureForth]

A private entrepreneur coming in and setting up shop would help pay for the overhead of the station, but to whomever owns the station. The big stations, which are owned by Amtrak, already have such enterprises. The little stations are probably not owned by Amtrak. So how will this help Amtrak, if the little stations get some small businesses?

jb

Whereas I agree with your statements, I will contradict my own with question "Why doens't AMTRAK set up kiosks at stations?"

For the rest of y'all, I really do mean outside the NEC.

Let's take my home station for example. Savannah station is owned by the City of Savannah. It is staffed and open from 4 PM until around 10 AM. When on time, the trains are there from 7:30 PM with the arrival of the Silver Meteor until the departure of the Palmetto at 8:30 AM. In those 13 hours, approximately 200 people either board or disembark. If, on average, you could squeeze $2 from each patron, there is the potential of around $12000 of revenue per month. With regional, targeted merchandise, that potential could climb way higher.

Back to Japan for a moment. One of the BIG merchandising opportunities lies in Eki-Ben. Eki-Ben are boxed lunches that have a regional flair to them. Some people travel the country just to sample different Eki-Ben. My point is, with collaborative effort, Amtrak and local municipalities have the potential to not only increase revenue with the passengers that already will patronize the station, but as the article describes, create a new market and a new reason for people to come through the station - whether or not by train.

It seems like what you're describing is merchandising opportunities for the vendors - not Amtrak itself, per se. Sure, better amenities at the stations improves the passenger's experience which makes for more satisfied customers, etc..., but there is no direct revenue increase to Amtrak because a particular station is very nice - unless you want Amtrak to charge $2 more per ticket for each person that either embarks or disembarks there.
jb

That is why I amended my OP with the question, why doesn't Amtrak pursue this? In fact, if Amtrak ran it, it could lower the cost of wholesale by increasing volume (except for "local" specialties). In fact, Amtrak happens to have the infrastructure for delivery, reducing costs even more.

And jis is right about folks not wanting to spend money while disembarking. But I can tell you, when I get off the train at 1:30 AM or 4:30 AM, having a hot dog or breakfast burrito available would just be awesome. A captive waiting audience - especially when the trains run late - is the prime market.

I've been impressed with the hot dog lady in Orlando. I don't know who she pays homage to, but the one thing that I don't like about her operation is that she doesn't seem to be prepared well. I've seen her close up shop, even though people want to buy snacks from her, before the train arrives, claiming she's already had a long 12 hour day (not because she ran out of stock).

Now consider this. The city of Brunswick, GA spent a ton of money to build an airport terminal that sees nearly the exact same number of people per year. They offer not one, not two, but three rental car agencies, WiFi, a Cafe', and conference facilities. Oh, they also offer aircraft rentals and flight training. What Amtrak station offers train rentals and locomotive engineer training?

 

[zephyr17]

Bear in mind that Amtrak does not own many of the stations it uses, so the proceeds of any leasing/marketing arrangements probably would benefit the property owner/master leasee, not Amtrak.

For example, new fast food and convienence stores have opened in LAUS. I doubt that Amtrak sees any of that revenue since they are only a tenant.

 

[Eric S]

Need a respectable volume of passenger traffic at a station to support a rental car desk and facility. Not many stations get enough Amtrak traffic by itself to get a Hertz or Avis interested. That is where the push to build intermodal stations or restore downtown stations as the center transit hub will help. Get Amtrak, intercity bus service, local transit bus, streetcar or light rail stop at a single location, preferably downtown, that will lead to more stations with newsstands or retail outlets. And more with rental car facilities at the station or nearby or via rail transit access to the local airport.

Outside of the NEC and CA, Amtrak will be moving in the next several years to new or restored intermodal stations with local rail transit in Miami (Central Station at the airport), St. Paul, Denver. The Norfolk station is on The Tide light rail line. While Amtrak will still have isolated stations on the outskirts of some larger cities, the overall situation for stations with local transit connections and car rental options has been and will continue to improve. Easy to overlook this underlying trend while watching the gridlock and battles in Congress over transportation funding.

This. Whether smaller cities like Normal, IL, or larger cities like St. Louis, Milwaukee, and others in the coming years.

 

[VentureForth]

Bear in mind that Amtrak does not own many of the stations it uses, so the proceeds of any leasing/marketing arrangements probably would benefit the property owner/master leasee, not Amtrak.
For example, new fast food and convienence stores have opened in LAUS. I doubt that Amtrak sees any of that revenue since they are only a tenant.

Just out of curiosity, how many times is this going to be mentioned?

 

[Train Rider]

Need a respectable volume of passenger traffic at a station to support a rental car desk and facility. Not many stations get enough Amtrak traffic by itself to get a Hertz or Avis interested. That is where the push to build intermodal stations or restore downtown stations as the center transit hub will help. Get Amtrak, intercity bus service, local transit bus, streetcar or light rail stop at a single location, preferably downtown, that will lead to more stations with newsstands or retail outlets. And more with rental car facilities at the station or nearby or via rail transit access to the local airport.

Outside of the NEC and CA, Amtrak will be moving in the next several years to new or restored intermodal stations with local rail transit in Miami (Central Station at the airport), St. Paul, Denver. The Norfolk station is on The Tide light rail line. While Amtrak will still have isolated stations on the outskirts of some larger cities, the overall situation for stations with local transit connections and car rental options has been and will continue to improve. Easy to overlook this underlying trend while watching the gridlock and battles in Congress over transportation funding.

This. Whether smaller cities like Normal, IL, or larger cities like St. Louis, Milwaukee, and others in the coming years.

The City of Milwaukee recently entered into a contract with ZipCar. The downtown intermodal station, which gets 16 trains and multiple buses per day, was not one of the sites selected by the city for ZipCar service. Seems short-sighted by the city.

 

[Eric S]

There are a few ZipCars located/stationed at Milwaukee Intermodal Station.

 

[haolerider]

I can assure you that any reputable/successful retail, car rental or other company would have looked at Amtrak locations for,possible business opportunities. Those locations that have decent passenger traffic will be selected and those that have poor on/off counts will be rejected. Hertz has had many locations with a phone connection for anyone wanting to rent a car......and having worlked for a large rental car company, the decision to rent a car at your destination is generally not a spur of the moment decision. Can an individual make money selling hot dogs, etc at an Amtrak location....such as Orlando....probably yes, but the amount paid to Amtrak is not significant. There may be some Amtrak locations that would appear to be "ripe for the picking" , but not many and this effort is not going to save Amtrak!

 

[MikefromCrete]

Bear in mind that Amtrak does not own many of the stations it uses, so the proceeds of any leasing/marketing arrangements probably would benefit the property owner/master leasee, not Amtrak.
For example, new fast food and convienence stores have opened in LAUS. I doubt that Amtrak sees any of that revenue since they are only a tenant.

Just out of curiosity, how many times is this going to be mentioned?

Enough until you figure out that Amtrak isn't going to make any money out of selling Cokes/souvenirs at stations it doesn't own or control.

 

[cirdan]

Also this will work only where there are considerable number of trains running through the station producing enough foot traffic to make it worth the while of any entrepreneur. Works also if the station is a multipurpose facility producing additional non-train related foot traffic. but usually such facilities are not Amtrak owned.

You can of course boost foot traffic if you co-locate the Amtrak station with, for example, the Greyhound terminal plus the local / city bus hub. That has the added advantage that exchange between the modes becomes easier and people have more travelling options (the whole being more than the sum of its parts). The commercial space need not be reserved for passengers either. If you can encourage attractive businesses to take up leases in the station, people would come there specially to shop there, and being inside the station might help break down certain misconceptions that some people have about trains.

 

[cirdan]

Isn't this essentially FEC's business concept? Run a train service to generate patronage at the station sites they own and live off the real-estate income?

 

[VentureForth]

Bear in mind that Amtrak does not own many of the stations it uses, so the proceeds of any leasing/marketing arrangements probably would benefit the property owner/master leasee, not Amtrak.

For example, new fast food and convienence stores have opened in LAUS. I doubt that Amtrak sees any of that revenue since they are only a tenant.

Just out of curiosity, how many times is this going to be mentioned?

Enough until you figure out that Amtrak isn't going to make any money out of selling Cokes/souvenirs at stations it doesn't own or control.

That's a pretty lame comment considering I mentioned it in my very first posted reply (see post #7). AMTRAK can make money selling stuff. AMTRAK won't make any money if SOMEONE ELSE sells at non-owned stations. Seriously, do you read all the posts before you comment? So now I'm going to ask a different, separate question. Can it be argued that where Amtrak leases the entire station a vendor could sublet space from AMTRAK thus bringing AMTRAK revenue?

 

[VentureForth]

Isn't this essentially FEC's business concept? Run a train service to generate patronage at the station sites they own and live off the real-estate income?

Yes. This is FEC's stated business plan.