Could This Save Amtrak?

[haolerider]

Bear in mind that Amtrak does not own many of the stations it uses, so the proceeds of any leasing/marketing arrangements probably would benefit the property owner/master leasee, not Amtrak. For example, new fast food and convienence stores have opened in LAUS. I doubt that Amtrak sees any of that revenue since they are only a tenant.

Just out of curiosity, how many times is this going to be mentioned?

Enough until you figure out that Amtrak isn't going to make any money out of selling Cokes/souvenirs at stations it doesn't own or control.

That's a pretty lame comment considering I mentioned it in my very first posted reply (see post #7). AMTRAK can make money selling stuff. AMTRAK won't make any money if SOMEONE ELSE sells at non-owned stations. Seriously, do you read all the posts before you comment? So now I'm going to ask a different, separate question. Can it be argued that where Amtrak leases the entire station a vendor could sublet space from AMTRAK thus bringing AMTRAK revenue?

If you go back a few years, Amtrak had souvenirs for sale in stations...logo,items, etc.....but sales were not huge and inventory control was an issue. This is one reason they went to an outside vendor to control sales. I would agree that a vendor in an Amtrak owned station could contribute to Amtrak revenue in terms of rent or a percentage of sales, but the vendor would have to have huge sales for it to amount to any significant income for Amtrak. As I have stated before, this is not going to "save Amtrak"!

 

[VentureForth]

Bear in mind that Amtrak does not own many of the stations it uses, so the proceeds of any leasing/marketing arrangements probably would benefit the property owner/master leasee, not Amtrak. For example, new fast food and convienence stores have opened in LAUS. I doubt that Amtrak sees any of that revenue since they are only a tenant.

Just out of curiosity, how many times is this going to be mentioned?

Enough until you figure out that Amtrak isn't going to make any money out of selling Cokes/souvenirs at stations it doesn't own or control.

That's a pretty lame comment considering I mentioned it in my very first posted reply (see post #7). AMTRAK can make money selling stuff. AMTRAK won't make any money if SOMEONE ELSE sells at non-owned stations. Seriously, do you read all the posts before you comment? So now I'm going to ask a different, separate question. Can it be argued that where Amtrak leases the entire station a vendor could sublet space from AMTRAK thus bringing AMTRAK revenue?

If you go back a few years, Amtrak had souvenirs for sale in stations...logo,items, etc.....but sales were not huge and inventory control was an issue. This is one reason they went to an outside vendor to control sales. I would agree that a vendor in an Amtrak owned station could contribute to Amtrak revenue in terms of rent or a percentage of sales, but the vendor would have to have huge sales for it to amount to any significant income for Amtrak. As I have stated before, this is not going to "save Amtrak"!

That is a rational argument. Thank you. I would like to counter that the purpose of starting this thread was not to show cute kitty cats, but that localized marketing can boost revenues. Having ONLY the same Amtrak stuff at every Amtrak station is not very creative.

 

[cirdan]

Bear in mind that Amtrak does not own many of the stations it uses, so the proceeds of any leasing/marketing arrangements probably would benefit the property owner/master leasee, not Amtrak. For example, new fast food and convienence stores have opened in LAUS. I doubt that Amtrak sees any of that revenue since they are only a tenant.

Just out of curiosity, how many times is this going to be mentioned?

Enough until you figure out that Amtrak isn't going to make any money out of selling Cokes/souvenirs at stations it doesn't own or control.

That's a pretty lame comment considering I mentioned it in my very first posted reply (see post #7). AMTRAK can make money selling stuff. AMTRAK won't make any money if SOMEONE ELSE sells at non-owned stations. Seriously, do you read all the posts before you comment? So now I'm going to ask a different, separate question. Can it be argued that where Amtrak leases the entire station a vendor could sublet space from AMTRAK thus bringing AMTRAK revenue?

If you go back a few years, Amtrak had souvenirs for sale in stations...logo,items, etc.....but sales were not huge and inventory control was an issue. This is one reason they went to an outside vendor to control sales. I would agree that a vendor in an Amtrak owned station could contribute to Amtrak revenue in terms of rent or a percentage of sales, but the vendor would have to have huge sales for it to amount to any significant income for Amtrak. As I have stated before, this is not going to "save Amtrak"!

Though I guess there is a limit to how many Amtrak-themed pencils, T-shirts, baseball caps and car stickers you can sell. It's not really a very lucrative business and not one that will generate many return customers. But if they could dovetail that into a broader concept, such as maybe a general purpose travel agency that just happens to be especially good with train tickets, or an Amtrak-themed food court (that could share supply chains with and cross-susbidize on-train catering). That would be pushing the Amtrak brand beyond the core business and building bridges to people who are not part of the typical customer demographic, all while actually making money or at least recovering costs.

 

[MikefromCrete]

Perhaps my last post was rather flip. Let me get my head around what you are proposing.

The initial post shows a railroad station in Japan where a local cat somehow becomes a celebrity resulting in big sales of merchandise and even increases ridership on a local railroad. Interesting, but probably not easy or even possible to duplicate elsewhere.

Amtrak's larger stations, with big ridership from Amtrak, local commuter trains and/or buses just about always feature some kind of food service and other vendors.

Smaller stations with, say two to four trains a day, usually don't have such facilities, outside of vending machines.

Now, are you saying Amtrak should get into the food/souvenir business by running such facilities at stations where they don't exist?

Should Amtrak have souvenir stands at all its stations?

Should Amtrak make more of an effort to see that food/souvenir vendors are located at its smaller stations?

It doesn't seem like a lot of money would filter down to Amtrak's bottom line by either offering such services on its own or having vendors kicking back a portion of their business to Amtrak, certainly not enough to "save" Amtrak.

Having such services at a station would certainly enhance the travel experience, but you need a big enough passenger volume to justify such a service. A lot of place just don't have that kind of volume.

You mention Savannah as a place that could use such a service. There's six trains a day at Savannah, so there's probably enough people at any one time to justify a small stand. The market is pretty much confined to passengers (and friends and relatives seeming them off) waiting to board trains. People arriving pretty much just get off the train and leave as soon as possible. I believe the Savannah station is located outside of town in a relatively isolated spot, so there's probably no "casual" tourists coming in. A downtown location might attract some folks just looking around. So, it's not a bad idea to attract some kind of vendors to the station, but nobody's going to get rich on the operation of such a business.

 

[haolerider]

Bear in mind that Amtrak does not own many of the stations it uses, so the proceeds of any leasing/marketing arrangements probably would benefit the property owner/master leasee, not Amtrak. For example, new fast food and convienence stores have opened in LAUS. I doubt that Amtrak sees any of that revenue since they are only a tenant.

Just out of curiosity, how many times is this going to be mentioned?

Enough until you figure out that Amtrak isn't going to make any money out of selling Cokes/souvenirs at stations it doesn't own or control.

That's a pretty lame comment considering I mentioned it in my very first posted reply (see post #7). AMTRAK can make money selling stuff. AMTRAK won't make any money if SOMEONE ELSE sells at non-owned stations. Seriously, do you read all the posts before you comment? So now I'm going to ask a different, separate question. Can it be argued that where Amtrak leases the entire station a vendor could sublet space from AMTRAK thus bringing AMTRAK revenue?

If you go back a few years, Amtrak had souvenirs for sale in stations...logo,items, etc.....but sales were not huge and inventory control was an issue. This is one reason they went to an outside vendor to control sales. I would agree that a vendor in an Amtrak owned station could contribute to Amtrak revenue in terms of rent or a percentage of sales, but the vendor would have to have huge sales for it to amount to any significant income for Amtrak. As I have stated before, this is not going to "save Amtrak"!

That is a rational argument. Thank you. I would like to counter that the purpose of starting this thread was not to show cute kitty cats, but that localized marketing can boost revenues. Having ONLY the same Amtrak stuff at every Amtrak station is not very creative.

Back about 12 years ago, Amtrak had a large Field Marketing group that focused on local Marketing.....sponsorship at NBA arenas, MLB stadiums, NHL teams and with other local partners. They called on travel agencies that specialized in rail ticket sales in cities that had good local train service. All that changed when the Marketing budget was slashed and the Fild Sales/Marketing people were terminated.

 

[afigg]

Isn't this essentially FEC's business concept? Run a train service to generate patronage at the station sites they own and live off the real-estate income?

Yes. This is FEC's stated business plan.

Train companies acquiring land around stations and the ROW to provide revenue is not exactly a new concept. The railroads were doing that in the 1800s. The FEC owns land or their holding companies do around the FEC ROW and one-time passenger stations that have been underutilized for revenue for many years. The owners of the FEC see an opportunity with the revival of intercity passenger rail with a Miami to Orlando service to extract the revenue and value from their property holdings.
In Amtrak's case, much of the property that Penn Railroad and others originally brought up around the stations and ROW FOR what is now the NEC was sold off long ago. Some may have heard about the sale of the air rights for NY Penn Station in the 1960s. Amtrak has some development projects in the works on remaining parcels that can be redeveloped at BAL and PHL that show up in the reports, but these are not going to generate large amounts of money. There is possible revenue in air rights over some parts of the NEC and service yards that Amtrak owns, but it takes decades of waiting for the local market to develop to get the best price for those air rights. Amtrak also has to be careful that the sale of unused property or air rights don't interfere in 20 or 40 years with changing needs for capacity or operations on the NEC. Look at the loss of station space at BOS, NYP and WAS when the stations were rebuilt/modified/converted or track space sold off because the planners did not foresee the revival and growth of passenger rail in the 21st century.

Outside of the NEC, as I noted before, what will help grow Amtrak and intercity passenger rail, is the restoration of or building of new stations which combine Amtrak, intercity bus service, local transit hub/stops. Most of these stations will not be owned by Amtrak, but by the city, state, transit agency, or an operating authority, similar to ports or airports. The intermodal stations will be of far greater importance to the growth and return of intercity passenger rail than the revenue from a couple of retail outlets in stations or Amtrak souveneirs.

 

[VentureForth]

Perhaps my last post was rather flip. Let me get my head around what you are proposing.

Not a problem. I just sometimes find it amusing that some threads here can go on page after page, and someone on page 12 answers the OP with the same answer given by someone else in post #2.

You mention Savannah as a place that could use such a service. There's six trains a day at Savannah, so there's probably enough people at any one time to justify a small stand. The market is pretty much confined to passengers (and friends and relatives seeming them off) waiting to board trains. People arriving pretty much just get off the train and leave as soon as possible. I believe the Savannah station is located outside of town in a relatively isolated spot, so there's probably no "casual" tourists coming in. A downtown location might attract some folks just looking around. So, it's not a bad idea to attract some kind of vendors to the station, but nobody's going to get rich on the operation of such a business.

I thought I wrote this, but I went back and re-read my comments and I guess I didn't. I know I thunk it. My idea is to hit up stations with a threshold of, say, 50,000 passengers/year.