Chicago Run-Throughs

Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
C

Curt

Guest
I think this has been covered before, but I didn't get a chance to read, so I'll ask it again. Why did the SWC and Capitol Limited run-through stop? The chief is a pretty on time train and there are several hrs for layover in Chicago. Plus wouldn't it save a set of equipment? The Sunset does it in NO so why can't the Chief and the Capitol?
 
The actual advertised run-through of the CAPITOL LIMITED and SOUTHWEST CHIEF was short-lived. It only lasted a year or so. The train was marketed as each individual train, but also under another name (which escapes my memory at the moment... brain over 45) and the numbers 15/16. If one were traveling between, say, Washington and Los Angeles, they could leave their luggage aboard the train and I think even remain aboard if they chose, although the layover was something like four hours if the first train came into Chicago on time.

This was stopped due to security reasons, since somebody of authority would be needed to guard the train and its passengers aboard since the crews were not around during the layover. Also it was easier to service the train with the passengers off the train. So although the equipment has continued running through Chicago over the years, a "through" passenger and his/her luggage would still come off the train upon arrival and then reboard the second segment to continue their trip. I had not heard of this arrangement terminating.

The CITY OF NEW ORLEANS and EMPIRE BUILDER had a similar run-through operation, whereby somebody could ride all the way from New Orleans to Seattle in a single seat, making it the longest one-seat trip one could take at that time, at 3132 miles. Again when that ended the equipment still ran through but a passenger had to get off and on again in Chicago.

About two or three years ago they changed it so that the CITY now runs through with the TEXAS EAGLE. It is unlikely that a passenger would want to ride from the points on one of these trains to a point on the other, since those routes are basically parallel. As far a I know, the BUILDER does not have a run-through partner anymore. It probably should, because its timekeeping is usually pretty reliable, and it's the only long distance train that uses the northern half of Chicago Union Station so it would not have to be turned.
 
There's another good reason why the Empire Builder and the City of New Orleans ceased to be thru trains. The Portland section of the Builder was running empty on the City route, building up hundreds of miles of wear and tear without earning a penny of revenue. There was not enough demand on the City to justify opening these cars for revenue service on the City, mainly because it would require paying extra staff. My thought at the time was, why not seperate the Portland section and let it become a daily Cardinal? (At that time, the Cardinal was still a Superliner train and had not been extended to New York.) I assume that the Texas Eagle is a better equipment match for the City, but it seems like the Builder's equipment could be better utilized.
 
How come the Sunset runs through NO then, even though it has a several hr layover?
 
Curt said:
How come the Sunset runs through NO then, even though it has a several hr layover?
My guess is that since it often runs late, there may be a connection or something, or maybe for padding.
 
Superliner Diner said:
The actual advertised run-through of the CAPITOL LIMITED and SOUTHWEST CHIEF was short-lived. It only lasted a year or so. The train was marketed as each individual train, but also under another name (which escapes my memory at the moment... brain over 45) and the numbers 15/16.
i believe it was the National Chief or National Limited.

Also, I believe the LSL and the Silver Star run through.

Jon
 
A few notes on the Builder run-throughs.

First, towards the end of the run through anyway (I don't know about when it started), the last couple of cars from the Portland section were removed in Chicago and turned to become the next day's westbound Portland section. Therefore, Amtrak was actually able to adjust the consist to meet the demand of the City of New Orleans.

However, the main reason that stopped, from what I understand, was that the City's (then) poor reliability was seriously affecting the Empire Builder, which otherwise could run on time. The City of New Orleans has enjoyed much improved reliability since then, but as has already been noted, the Texas Eagle is a much better match, equipment-wise, than the Empire Builder. Since there is no other train that is reliable enough to run-through with the Empire Builder (and, in fact, no other train that uses Superliner equipment that leaves after 8 arrives, or arrives before 7 leaves), there would be no benefit to doing a run through.

Second, Amtrak is going to be rolling out the "Superior Service" Empire Builder on August 1 (or so the current plan goes) using remanufactured Superliners. Right now, Amtrak needs to provide a minimum of five trainsets (plus spares) of remanufactured cars in order to equip the Empire Builder. If the Empire Builder were to run through with another train, Amtrak would need seven or eight complete sets of equipment (plus even more spares) to equip the Empire Builder and partner with the improved cars. Since it's highly unlikley Amtrak would be able to produce that many remanufactured cars in such a short amount of time, the Empire Builder shall reman off limits for run throughs (except, perhaps, for emergency, last-minute situations).
 
Now for a few notes on the other run-throughs mentioned.

The Sunset Limited has run through New Orleans since April, 1993, when it became the first regularly scheduled transcontinental passenger train in US history. From what I have been told, Amtrak's policy over the years has varied as to whether passengers were allowed to remain on board during the layover. Since I have never ridden through New Orleans on the Sunset (I got off there once in December, 2002, and boarded there this January), I can't speak to any of those policies from personal experience.

However, New Orleans is a pretty major service point for the Sunset (engines are changed there, and I think at one point OBS crews may have changed there as well). For all intents and purposes, the Sunset Limited through NOL is/was like the Capitol/Chief run through was originally meant to be. Now, the eastbound layover is extremely long (about 6 hours, give or take) because of the absolutely atrocious timekeeping that train has suffered at the hands of Union Pacific (not that CSX handles the train any better, of course).

From March, 2004, to February, 2005, the train arrived at its endpoints fewer than five times total during that period. Clearly something had to be done, but Amtrak's options were quite limited. Therefore, they settled on the policy of stretching the schedule to accommodate the numerous delays throughout the route (which has resulted in the OTP for the route skyrocketing from 1.something % up to about 25%).

The long eastbound NOL layover is simply an anomaly that results from a train whose arrival time cannot hope to be predicted with any degree of accuracy. There would be no benefit to making the train two separate routes, split in NOL, since doing so would require even more equipment (which Amtrak simply does not have . . . *period*).

For those wondering the status of the Capitol/Chief run-through, it only happens westbound. Eastbound, the Chief arrives in Chicago, and spends the night there before heading east to Washington the following day. In fact, I often wonder why Amtrak even bothers with the run-through any more since it does not save any equipment vs. having each train use its own captive sets, and a late Capitol Limited arrival almost always guarantees a late Southwest Chief departure (Chicago would have more time to service the Capitol Limited equipment to send it out as that night's #30).

As for the New York run-throughs, things are a bit more complicated. I had a book somewhere (which was a few months old) that noted the equipment turns, and while I don't recall offhand exactly what everything does, I will note that the run-throughs aren't quite simple (at least, they weren't back when that book was in effect). Essentially, a trainset (assuming it would stay together without ever being broken up for bad-ordered cars or whatever) would wind up running every single-level long-distance route (except the Cardinal) over the course of a week or two. This was done (and probably still is) because the Viewliner maintenance base is at Hialeah (Miami), and so Amtrak must rotate the Viewliners down there regularly. Therefore, the Lake Shore turns to a Florida train after spending the night in New York, and something else (either the Crescent or another Florida train) turns back to the Lake Shore.
 
So was the reason the run through was stopped just because trains were late? I don't buy that. The SWC is an ontime train and the Capitol is usually around 1-2 hrs late only. The layover in Chicago is more than enough to make up for the lateness. Plus the Sunset can do it in NO. The run through saves a set of equipment, and any gain in trainsets is huge when considering the equipment shortages.
 
rmadisonwi said:
From March, 2004, to February, 2005, the train arrived at its endpoints fewer than five times total during that period.
Hmm, that's news to me, that the train only arrived at it's destination less than 5 times. :lol: :D :p

Amtrak must have had a devil of a time finding new equipment. :lol: :D
 
rmadisonwi said:
As for the New York run-throughs, things are a bit more complicated. I had a book somewhere (which was a few months old) that noted the equipment turns, and while I don't recall offhand exactly what everything does, I will note that the run-throughs aren't quite simple (at least, they weren't back when that book was in effect). Essentially, a trainset (assuming it would stay together without ever being broken up for bad-ordered cars or whatever) would wind up running every single-level long-distance route (except the Cardinal) over the course of a week or two. This was done (and probably still is) because the Viewliner maintenance base is at Hialeah (Miami), and so Amtrak must rotate the Viewliners down there regularly. Therefore, the Lake Shore turns to a Florida train after spending the night in New York, and something else (either the Crescent or another Florida train) turns back to the Lake Shore.
Well nothing truly runs-through New York anyhow. Unlike Chicago and New Orleans, where cars are cleaned and serviced in the station at the platform, NY can't do that. They don't have the track capacity to do that.

All trains, if you will, run-though Sunnyside yard. That means, that under no circumstances do passengers remain on-board the train. Yes the consists do rotate from route to route, but the trains don't truly run-through as the term implies.
 
AlanB said:
rmadisonwi said:
From March, 2004, to February, 2005, the train arrived at its endpoints fewer than five times total during that period.
Hmm, that's news to me, that the train only arrived at it's destination less than 5 times. :lol: :D :p

Amtrak must have had a devil of a time finding new equipment. :lol: :D
Stupid computer ate the words "on time" that I put in there.
 
Curt said:
So was the reason the run through was stopped just because trains were late? I don't buy that. The SWC is an ontime train and the Capitol is usually around 1-2 hrs late only. The layover in Chicago is more than enough to make up for the lateness. Plus the Sunset can do it in NO. The run through saves a set of equipment, and any gain in trainsets is huge when considering the equipment shortages.
The eastbound run through was stopped with the schedule change a year or two ago. The Capitol Limited's Chicago departure was move up to 5:30 pm, which is too soon after the Chief's arrival (sometime after 3 pm). There wasn't enough time for the train to be serviced before it left again.
 
rmadisonwi said:
AlanB said:
rmadisonwi said:
From March, 2004, to February, 2005, the train arrived at its endpoints fewer than five times total during that period.
Hmm, that's news to me, that the train only arrived at it's destination less than 5 times. :lol: :D :p

Amtrak must have had a devil of a time finding new equipment. :lol: :D
Stupid computer at the words "on time" that I put in there.
I of course knew what you meant to say, Robert, but that was just too good of an opportunity to pass up. :) :p
 
I can't speak for what the rest of the CSX system does to Amtrak, but I regularly monitor the AA desk dispatchers here in the Orlando corridor, on Road and Dispatch both and I can say quite positively that the CSX dispatchers for this area work pretty hard at expediting Amtrak. They will hold CSX's own trains, and will hold off on allowing work crews to do track work, and will frequently remind ongoing track work supervisors of when they have to be cleared by, and of the current locations and progress of Amtrak trains, in order not to delay Amtrak trains. When there is a meet, it is usually a CSX train that sits in the hole for Amtrak, not the other way round, and usually when Amtrak has to wait for another train it's because it's another Amtrak train. Probably the only exception would be a train crew that would otherwise go on the law and block the whole corridor. Most days we have three Amtrak movements each way through the Orlando corridor, not counting the AutoTrain out of Sanford. I have been quite impressed by how CSX dispatch treats Amtrak through the Orlando Corridor.
 
rmadisonwi said:
AlanB said:
rmadisonwi said:
From March, 2004, to February, 2005, the train arrived at its endpoints fewer than five times total during that period.
Hmm, that's news to me, that the train only arrived at it's destination less than 5 times. :lol: :D :p

Amtrak must have had a devil of a time finding new equipment. :lol: :D
Stupid computer at the words "on time" that I put in there.
Aloha

Now wait a minute, computers are stupid? If thay read our mind and did what we think......now thats scary :rolleyes:
 
AlanB said:
rmadisonwi said:
AlanB said:
rmadisonwi said:
From March, 2004, to February, 2005, the train arrived at its endpoints fewer than five times total during that period.
Hmm, that's news to me, that the train only arrived at it's destination less than 5 times. :lol: :D :p

Amtrak must have had a devil of a time finding new equipment. :lol: :D
Stupid computer at the words "on time" that I put in there.
I of course knew what you meant to say, Robert, but that was just too good of an opportunity to pass up. :) :p
Well, if it were the case of the EB Sunset, it might be true! :p
 
Back
Top