CHI-STL high speed, will TE benefit?

[rms492]

Hello, once the Chicago-St. Louis high speed rail is completed (110mph), will the Texas Eagle be able to enjoy new higher speeds? (okay, I know, Superliners can only go 100mph). Or is this just limited to the Lincoln trains?

Thanks

 

[MikefromCrete]

Texas Eagle should benefit from the higher speed limits. If the Superliners are limited to 100 mph,then of course the train won't be able to hit 110, it should be able to do 100.

 

[TVRM610]

The Texas Eagle will be limited to 55 mph. Otherwise it stands a chance of running on time. HA!

But yes the Texas Eagle will benefit from the corridor, just like the LD's that run on the NEC, sure they can't do the full 125 like the regionals, but they can go a whole lot faster than 79!

79 to 100 is a big jump, and that's just the top speed, don't forget that in order to get to that top speed some curves were most likely straightened, which will bring the average speed up

even more.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

The Texas Eagle will be limited to 55 mph. Otherwise it stands a chance of running on time. HA!

But yes the Texas Eagle will benefit from the corridor, just like the LD's that run on the NEC, sure they can't do the full 125 like the regionals, but they can go a whole lot faster than 79!

79 to 100 is a big jump, and that's just the top speed, don't forget that in order to get to that top speed some curves were most likely straightened, which will bring the average speed up

even more.

Nice! That ought to save some time! Maybe up to an half hour?

 

[Ozark Southern]

The Texas Eagle will be limited to 55 mph. Otherwise it stands a chance of running on time. HA!

But yes the Texas Eagle will benefit from the corridor, just like the LD's that run on the NEC, sure they can't do the full 125 like the regionals, but they can go a whole lot faster than 79!

79 to 100 is a big jump, and that's just the top speed, don't forget that in order to get to that top speed some curves were most likely straightened, which will bring the average speed up

even more.

Nice! That ought to save some time! Maybe up to an half hour?

I'd like for the schedule to remain as it is, and for them to use that half hour (or whatever it ends up being, I'm not really sure how to work out the math) to improve OTP. The A/D times are really pretty good in IL, and the only connexion the TE can't make is the EB*, given the 25 min. transfer window. I doubt an extra half hour would make Amtrak comfortable guaranteeing it, given the atrocious OTP.

*The TE cannot connect to the SWC in CHI, but can via the MORR or bus bridge SPI-GBB.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

The Texas Eagle will be limited to 55 mph. Otherwise it stands a chance of running on time. HA!

But yes the Texas Eagle will benefit from the corridor, just like the LD's that run on the NEC, sure they can't do the full 125 like the regionals, but they can go a whole lot faster than 79!

79 to 100 is a big jump, and that's just the top speed, don't forget that in order to get to that top speed some curves were most likely straightened, which will bring the average speed up

even more.

Nice! That ought to save some time! Maybe up to an half hour?

I'd like for the schedule to remain as it is, and for them to use that half hour (or whatever it ends up being, I'm not really sure how to work out the math) to improve OTP. The A/D times are really pretty good in IL, and the only connexion the TE can't make is the EB*, given the 25 min. transfer window. I doubt an extra half hour would make Amtrak comfortable guaranteeing it, given the atrocious OTP.

*The TE cannot connect to the SWC in CHI, but can via the MORR or bus bridge SPI-GBB.

The TE could cut half an hour departing CHI.

 

[cirdan]

I hope they also push ahead with the plans to double track this route, as the advantages of higher speed can easily be lost through congestion and jostling with freight trains.

 

[jcepler1]

The agreement signed with UP allows for ONLY 3 Lincoln Service trains to run at 110mph. So the remaining Lincoln Service trains, and the Texas Eagle, will travel slower. However, they will benefit from a better quality track. Maybe that means they will be limited to 79mph, I'm not sure. However, all trains that run over that territory will need to have a ITCS locomotive, so look for the Texas Eagle to have to add/remove a locomotive at St. Louis when the corridor is up and running.

 

[WICT106]

I think it may be possible for trains such as the Texas Eagle to travel at the 90 mph ( FRA Class 5 ) speed limit. The FRA will not certify the double-deck equipment for 110 mph, as the trucks on the Superliners were not designed for any speed exceeding 100 mph.

 

[The Chief]

ICTS* may be proprietary to GE. IIRC UP contracted with a Lockheed-led consortium for the Chicago (Amtrak Joliet) - St. Louis HS trackage for Positive Train Control.

Eagle usually runs with one loco. So jcepler1 is correct about setting out/picking up properly equipped loco in St. Louis.

*Incremental Train Control System

 

[AlanB]

Amtrak won't be changing engines in St. Louis for the Eagle. Amtrak is currently working on setting up all of its engines with PTC equipment. And my understanding is that they're trying to set things such that they can either keep the needed equipment for all different types of PTC in the cab, or at least easily swap it out for the right equipment.

So unlike right now, where Amtrak has some engines equipped for Michigan and some for operating on the NEC, all engines will be equipped with at least the basic equipment needed and then perhaps certain components will be swapped out as needed, assuming that they can't fit all types into the rack.

That is unless Congress reverses its earlier decision to require PTC on all routes that see passenger trains, but for right now, again Amtrak must be ready to meet the mandate.

 

[afigg]

The agreement signed with UP allows for ONLY 3 Lincoln Service trains to run at 110mph. So the remaining Lincoln Service trains, and the Texas Eagle, will travel slower. However, they will benefit from a better quality track. Maybe that means they will be limited to 79mph, I'm not sure. However, all trains that run over that territory will need to have a ITCS locomotive, so look for the Texas Eagle to have to add/remove a locomotive at St. Louis when the corridor is up and running.

The upgrades are for more than just better quality track. The pullover sidings are being upgraded to provide connections at both ends, there are numerous grade crossings upgrades, signal upgrades, I would venture that there are some curve and slow section upgrades for faster running. The UP track for the St. Louis to Alton section was upgraded last year to allow at least 60 mph running. IL received $186 million of Florida HSR funds last year to upgrades to the Joliet to Dwight section including double tracking a portion of it. Even if the Texas Eagle is not able to run at 100 or 110 mph, the track and signal upgrades should provide for a reduced and more reliable trip time from CHI to STL. How much? We will see as the schedules get adjusted.

The funded Tower 55 project in TX will also address a major choke point for the Texas Eagle. So the TE should see an improved overall trip time in the coming years.

 

[MattW]

If the TE is able to run over TRE tracks between Dallas and Fort Worth, will the Tower 55 project still be needed?

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

What's the Tower 55 project?

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Tower 55 is a MAJOR interlock just south of the FTW station. Here the UP and BNSF tracks cross at grade, creating massive congestion. The project will take one direction of tracks and run it over the other, eliminating much of the tie up. Plus there is an area nearby where kids are constantly sneaking across the tracks to short cut to and from school. The project will give them a protected way to cross over the tracks.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Tower 55 is a MAJOR interlock just south of the FTW station. Here the UP and BNSF tracks cross at grade, creating massive congestion. The project will take one direction of tracks and run it over the other, eliminating much of the tie up. Plus there is an area nearby where kids are constantly sneaking across the tracks to short cut to and from school. The project will give them a protected way to cross over the tracks.

They should put guards at the crossing to stop the kids!

 

[George Harris]

Tower 55 is a MAJOR interlock just south of the FTW station. Here the UP and BNSF tracks cross at grade, creating massive congestion. The project will take one direction of tracks and run it over the other, eliminating much of the tie up. Plus there is an area nearby where kids are constantly sneaking across the tracks to short cut to and from school. The project will give them a protected way to cross over the tracks.

They should put guards at the crossing to stop the kids!

You would have to treat it like the DMZ between the two Koreas. Manned guard towers in sight of each other, shoot trespassers. The "kids" and it is not all kids, are crossing whereever they want to, even cutting fences if they are in the way.

 

[afigg]

Tower 55 is a MAJOR interlock just south of the FTW station. Here the UP and BNSF tracks cross at grade, creating massive congestion. The project will take one direction of tracks and run it over the other, eliminating much of the tie up. Plus there is an area nearby where kids are constantly sneaking across the tracks to short cut to and from school. The project will give them a protected way to cross over the tracks.

They should put guards at the crossing to stop the kids!

The diagrams and the fact sheet at this Tower 55 website provide insight into the complexity of the interlocking crossing and road grade crossings. $93.7 million project with $34 million provided by a federal TIGER II grant.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

The agreement signed with UP allows for ONLY 3 Lincoln Service trains to run at 110mph. So the remaining Lincoln Service trains, and the Texas Eagle, will travel slower. Maybe that means they will be limited to 79mph, I'm not sure.

Is this true? Union Pacific will still be able to unilaterally hold passenger trains back and prevent them from reaching their rated speeds?

There is an area nearby where kids are constantly sneaking across the tracks to short cut to and from school. The project will give them a protected way to cross over the tracks.

They should put guards at the crossing to stop the kids!

You would have to treat it like the DMZ between the two Koreas. Manned guard towers in sight of each other, shoot trespassers. The "kids" and it is not all kids, are crossing whereever they want to, even cutting fences if they are in the way.

Guard towers? Shooting trespassers? George, you seem to be a kindred spirit of the Amtrak conductor that famously "protects" customers by kicking them off the train.

 

[NE933]

The diagrams and the fact sheet at this Tower 55 website provide insight into the complexity of the interlocking crossing and road grade crossings. $93.7 million project with $34 million provided by a federal TIGER II grant.

Related question i've had for awhile on afigg's text is what is max speed for Amtrak trains going over diamonds? Does it depend on the angle the two tracks intersect at?

While traversing CSX lines between Washington and Florida we seem to go over some diamonds at least 60 mph, while others in the severe curvature of Jacksonville area we creep at 15, a speed governed by the degree of curvature and thus diamonds are not kept to higher standards since no necessity.

 

[Trogdor]

Related question i've had for awhile on afigg's text is what is max speed for Amtrak trains going over diamonds? Does it depend on the angle the two tracks intersect at?

While traversing CSX lines between Washington and Florida we seem to go over some diamonds at least 60 mph, while others in the severe curvature of Jacksonville area we creep at 15, a speed governed by the degree of curvature and thus diamonds are not kept to higher standards since no necessity.

It depends on the specific diamond, and is goverened by speeds listed in the operating timetable for that particular railroad at that particular location. There are some diamonds that can be crossed at 79 mph (or, I'd imagine, even higher). Others have 10 mph or 15 mph speed restrictions on them.

 

[AlanB]

There is an area nearby where kids are constantly sneaking across the tracks to short cut to and from school. The project will give them a protected way to cross over the tracks.

They should put guards at the crossing to stop the kids!

You would have to treat it like the DMZ between the two Koreas. Manned guard towers in sight of each other, shoot trespassers. The "kids" and it is not all kids, are crossing whereever they want to, even cutting fences if they are in the way.

Guard towers? Shooting trespassers? George, you seem to be a kindred spirit of the Amtrak conductor that famously "protects" customers by kicking them off the train.

The key words were "would have to". He didn't say that one should do that! But rather, nothing short of that is going to stop kids who think that they are invincible.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

There is an area nearby where kids are constantly sneaking across the tracks to short cut to and from school. The project will give them a protected way to cross over the tracks.

They should put guards at the crossing to stop the kids!

You would have to treat it like the DMZ between the two Koreas. Manned guard towers in sight of each other, shoot trespassers. The "kids" and it is not all kids, are crossing whereever they want to, even cutting fences if they are in the way.

Guard towers? Shooting trespassers? George, you seem to be a kindred spirit of the Amtrak conductor that famously "protects" customers by kicking them off the train.

The key words were "would have to". He didn't say that one should do that! But rather, nothing short of that is going to stop kids who think that they are invincible.

Would some concrete walls built two stories high stop the kids? I don't think they will take the risk to climb that nigh and they can't get something to blow it up. I know, it's gonna be expensive.

 

[Alice]

Would some concrete walls built two stories high stop the kids? I don't think they will take the risk to climb that nigh and they can't get something to blow it up. I know, it's gonna be expensive.

I don't care whether or not concrete walls would stop the kids (or adults); it would pretty much ruin the view, and yes, I even find people's slummy backyards interesting.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Would some concrete walls built two stories high stop the kids? I don't think they will take the risk to climb that nigh and they can't get something to blow it up. I know, it's gonna be expensive.

I don't care whether or not concrete walls would stop the kids (or adults); it would pretty much ruin the view, and yes, I even find people's slummy backyards interesting.

All this would not be needed if those kids/adults would stop being stupid and slipping across tracks that could kill them. What I'm thinking is that even if the build a walkway, the people will still dare each other to cross the tracks, causing fatalities.