CCC

[ALC Rail Writer]

Another reason I dislike the CCC: the noise level seems MUCH HIGHER than in a regular superliner diner.

This is because when people are stacked in the booths back-to-back-to-front they insulate some of the lateral vibrations (think of a slinky that has paper towels stuck in it) here there's slightly more room for sound to reverberate in the CCCs. Also the person in the "mafia booth" will have their ears positioned parallel with the motion of the train, so they're just going to hear the noise better from their position.

 

[crew]

The other problem with the U shaped booths: you face the aisle. One of the best parts of the dining car is being able to look at the country fly by at 79 miles per hour while you eat. With these booths you're instead forced to look at the people across the aisle.

Forced to look at the people traveling with you on the train?? Oh, God, not that!!!!

 

[crew]

Another reason I dislike the CCC: the noise level seems MUCH HIGHER than in a regular superliner diner.

This is because when people are stacked in the booths back-to-back-to-front they insulate some of the lateral vibrations (think of a slinky that has paper towels stuck in it) here there's slightly more room for sound to reverberate in the CCCs. Also the person in the "mafia booth" will have their ears positioned parallel with the motion of the train, so they're just going to hear the noise better from their position.

Or, more likely, it's because the "traditional" diners have more soft surfaces, especially the CARPETING, which absorb sounds in ways that the lino in the CCC's cannot.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

I do not understand what the concern about sitting sideways is all about. Last time I checked there are windows on both sides of the train and they are only 10 feet apart. Traditional Lounge cars had sideways and angled seating to create atmosphere and as someone mentioned so did some of the pre-Amtrak Diners; the Turquoise Room on the Super Chief comes to mind.

Provided 4 people weren't shoved in, I had little problem sitting in the Mafia Booth, even if I drew the middle seat.

 

[TVRM610]

Totally agree Olympian.

I still think the CONCEPT of the CCC car is excellent... But it was never given a fair chance. So now they are just a different style of diner.

I actually like the lounge section cause it can be used as a waiting area when things get filled up and gives the conductors a table that is not in The middle of a restaurant.

I still have no understanding of why the crews wouldn't like the CCC cars.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Another reason I dislike the CCC: the noise level seems MUCH HIGHER than in a regular superliner diner.

This is because when people are stacked in the booths back-to-back-to-front they insulate some of the lateral vibrations (think of a slinky that has paper towels stuck in it) here there's slightly more room for sound to reverberate in the CCCs. Also the person in the "mafia booth" will have their ears positioned parallel with the motion of the train, so they're just going to hear the noise better from their position.

Or, more likely, it's because the "traditional" diners have more soft surfaces, especially the CARPETING, which absorb sounds in ways that the lino in the CCC's cannot.

Or, most likely, a combination of all the above factors.

 

[EB_OBS]

I still have no understanding of why the crews wouldn't like the CCC cars.

The dining car crews don't like it when it's put on a LD train because its seating capacity is much less than a regular dining car. When it's put on the Empire Builder during the summer it totally sucks trying to feed everyone.

They also don't like it because there is only one elevator. In a normal diner there are two elevators, one for trays of food coming up and one for dirty dishes going down. You cannot use one elevator for both. So when using a CCC in place of a diner you serve on plastic and have large amounts of garbage bags to haul down the stairs during every meal.

Another reason for not liking the CCC is because all the storage you normally have on the upper level of a dining car is gone. There's very little dry storage upstairs in the CCC. It's cluttered and the cafe area is just a total waste of space when being used as the primary diner.

 

[dlagrua]

On our last CL trip this past June the CCC car that we dined in had the U shaped seating removed. There were all regular booths for seating BUT the unused café/bar counter was still there in the center of the car. Looks like they ran out of money during the refurbishment process and only did a seating conversion. We never liked the semi-circle seating of the CCC cars but the refurbished quasi dining car that we dined in was acceptable. IIRC plastic plates were still being used but I could be wrong about that.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

On our last CL trip this past June the CCC car that we dined in had the U shaped seating removed. There were all regular booths for seating BUT the unused café/bar counter was still there in the center of the car. Looks like they ran out of money during the refurbishment process and only did a seating conversion. We never liked the semi-circle seating of the CCC cars but the refurbished quasi dining car that we dined in was acceptable. IIRC plastic plates were still being used but I could be wrong about that.

I was on the CL last week on 29 and 30 and both times we had the same thing, half-converted CCC and plastic plates.

 

[the_traveler]

"Real" plates are only used on the EB and (at least in the PPC) on the CS. All other trains use plastic plates.

 

[PRR 60]

"Real" plates are only used on the EB and (at least in the PPC) on the CS. All other trains use plastic plates.

At least according to the latest timetable, the Capitol Limited is supposed to use "china" for dining service. What is supposed to happen and what really happens may be two different things.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

"Real" plates are only used on the EB and (at least in the PPC) on the CS. All other trains use plastic plates.

Yup I remember discussing this with the crew back in 2011, they talked about the route revitalization program or whatever it was called, the Capitol Limited was supposed to get diners and "china" back. I was excited to see the latest timetable offered "enhanced dining service" with real plates on the CL and dismayed that this was not the case.

I vote we all start taking plates off the CS and EB and carrying them with us whenever we travel, that way no matter where we are we can request the diner crew serve us on our plates!

Until then somebody needs to remind Amtrak they can't charge $25 for a steak and serve it on a plastic plate. Presentation is half the value added to any restaurant meal.

 

[the_traveler]

Totally OT, I remember flying in First Class shortly after 9/11/01. The meal was steak. They had a metal fork, a metal spoon and (because of regulations at the time) a plastic knife! (Ever try to cut a steak with a plastic knife? :huh: )

 

[fillyjonk]

Honestly, I'd rather have the plastic plates and "real" silverware. I remember a trip or two during some transitional stuff where we had "real" plates but plastic silverware (which is a contradiction in terms, I guess....plastic silverware is like jumbo shrimp)

I have, on many occassions, broken tines off plastic forks when trying to eat with them.

 

[SarahZ]

I really don't care if they use plastic plates as long as I have real silverware and the food tastes good.

 

[TVRM610]

"Real" plates are only used on the EB and (at least in the PPC) on the CS. All other trains use plastic plates.

"Enhanced Dining Car" which means glassware, "Amtrak China (yes I know it's technically not real china)" plates, and coffee mugs, and cloth table cloths are currently used on the following trains...

Coast Starlight Dining Car and PPC

Empire Builder

Capitol Limited

Auto Train

(I can personally verify all of these within the year 2013 with the exception of Auto Train.. )

 

[TVRM610]

This is how I would test the CCC cars on the City of New Orleans and the Texas Eagle....

Model the whole thing like a "Fast Casual" restaurant operation (Panera Bread, Pei Wei, Noodles & Co. etc.). Passengers line up at the counter and order and pay right at the counter. All items that do not need to be prepared (drinks, some side items, etc.) are given to the passengers at the counter, and also a number is given, they are asked to have a seat and then the food is brought to them. Most likely, the passengers would still need to be seated by a crew member so that tables are used appropriately in the small space.

The menus would be more of a Panera style... obviously not as large of a menu, but lunch would be more sandwiches, salads, soups, and then dinner would be entree salads, plus some pasta dishes. No cooked to order steaks, or fancy dinners. Just more basics. Breakfast could stay pretty close to the same since those items move out pretty fast already.

Would it be a complete disaster? I don't know.. but that seems to be how the car is set up... passengers could also take meals to go from the counter and go back to their seats. Something that many passengers would like to do, but is sometimes discouraged, and certainly not advertised by most train crews.

I think if the crews would actually give it a try.. this could work very well on SOME trains. It would also be, IMHO a better use of a 3 person staff... 1 cook, 1 LSA who actually has to take orders and work (there are some great LSA's out there but we have all seen the ones who just sit there doing nothing) and 1 food server who simply seats passengers, and brings the food to the table, and then cleans the table. No tablecloths, or place settings to deal with.

The name "Cross Country Cafe" seems to imply this type of service anyways...

 

[Devil's Advocate]

When the CCC's first came out some years ago, there was a large cry out from AU folks who had used them about how bad they thought they were. The person with their back to the window couldn't see out very well. They were cramped. The style didn't look good on a train, etc, etc. Interesting now that many seem to like them!

A substantial portion of the "cry out" was based on the poor design of the cramped tables which pointed away from the windows, many of which have since been removed, at least on the dining side. Other complaints that remain include the even slower food delivery from below and the unfortunate pinch point created by the upstairs serving station that can make moving through the car a bit of a pain.

Another reason I dislike the CCC: the noise level seems MUCH HIGHER than in a regular superliner diner.

Agreed.

I still think the CONCEPT of the CCC car is excellent... But it was never given a fair chance. So now they are just a different style of diner.

I waked through it. I sat down in it. I ate in it. I lounged in it. Dozens of times. I think I gave it a fair chance. Now that many of the goofy semicircle tables have been removed I've made my peace with it.

I really don't care if they use plastic plates as long as I have real silverware and the food tastes good.

No Amtrak train I’ve ever ridden over the last four decades has had real silverware.

 

[the_traveler]

What was suggested in the first part of post #42 sounds very similar to the "buffet cars" that were on the Silvers in the 1970's and/or 1980's! You stood in line at the buffet counter, chose what you wanted from the trays, it was put on the plate and/or tray, you paid at the end of the line and then a crew member carried the tray for you to your table.

I, and many other passengers hated it! I am glad they no longer serve that way!

 

[SarahZ]

I must be losing my mind. I thought we had real silverware the last time I was in the dining car.

That steak must be awfully tender if I cut it with a plastic knife.

Edit: Yup, see pics below.

 

[jimhudson]

While Any and All Ideas to Improve Food Service and Cut Losses on Amtrak Trains is Welcome, Dumbing Down the Diners to Fast Food/Casual Cafes Isn't the Answer IMO! Based on Personal Experience I feel that the Food has gotten Much Better in the Past Couple of Years and I find the New "Chef Inspired" Dishes and Deserts to be Very Good in Comparison to what they Replaced!YMMV While its Nice to have AMChina and Cloth Table Cloths and Stainless Ware, the Cost Benefit Ratio of having Throw Away Dishes versus having a Dishwasher/Asst. Chef Added back to the Food Service Crews has to be a Consideration!

(Im thinking the Throwaway Stuff Costs more but I'm not a Cost accountant or Food Service Specialist??? :help: )

I don't have a Problem with the CCCs being used as Diners on the Eagles and the CONOs(but prefer the Regular Superliner Diners and 8400!!! :lol: ) now that the Mafia Seats are Gone, but they Really Suck as Substitutes for Sightseer Lounge Cars and PPCs!

 

[SarahZ]

Wait. We did. Here are pictures from the SWC last Thanksgiving:

 

[Alice]

I must be losing my mind. I thought we had real silverware the last time I was in the dining car.

That steak must be awfully tender if I cut it with a plastic knife.

Edit: Yup, see pics below.

(Laughing) I think DA was referring to the kind of silverware that has to be polished ...

 

[SarahZ]

Oh! That makes more sense. I thought he was talking about metal vs. plastic.

When I talk about the type you polish, I just say "silver". Maybe it's a regional thing.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Oh! That makes more sense. I thought he was talking about metal vs. plastic.

When I talk about the type you polish, I just say "silver". Maybe it's a regional thing.

You got nitpicked. The Amburger photo made me strangely hungry though (possibly because my neighbourhood pub has $2 burgers and fries on Tuesdays)