Let's start calling it the Riley for right now.
Cardinal surprise
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spidersfan351
Train Attendant
I tried to catch this train at Culpeper to take to Staunton, since the eastbound was 4.5 hours late (and I could take it back to where I began). Unfortunately, my efforts to purchase a ticket from the conductor at CLP were unsuccessful, he said they were completely sold out. Instead, I chased it to Charlottesville and when I beat it by 20 minutes, spoke to the CVS-Huntington conductor. He told me that they had only just learned of the equipment change, and that all he heard was that it was "temporary", but he said there was no way to know what this meant (he even joked how it could be years). He did say that they would definitely have that equipment eastbound on #50 Tues/Wednesday, and the reservation site seems to corroborate this.
You mention that the Cap Ltd was a smaller consist. I did the math on the replacement equipment a few weeks ago, and I think there is plenty to run the Cardinal Superliner from CHI-Was. The way I see it, all you need is:
1. Bag (currently used)
2. Superliner sleeper
3. Sightseer/CCC (Lounge area - either car)
4. CCC (diner service)
5. Coach
6. Coach
7. Coach (gives you more, rather than a few less, seats)
I think there is room for a second sleeper if demand dictated. Here's the thing, in 2002 when they took the Superliner equipment off, it was because they really didn't have enough. Now, the Single Level equipment is really in shorter supply, given increased ridership on eastern trains and a good amount of Superliner equipment that was restored with Stimulus monies. So, it's easier for them to run it as a Superliner train than single level, at least until the new Viewliner equipment arrives in the next few years.
I'd be curious to know what you guys think of my numbers. I spent a morning crunching it when I should have been working at my office
You mention that the Cap Ltd was a smaller consist. I did the math on the replacement equipment a few weeks ago, and I think there is plenty to run the Cardinal Superliner from CHI-Was. The way I see it, all you need is:
1. Bag (currently used)
2. Superliner sleeper
3. Sightseer/CCC (Lounge area - either car)
4. CCC (diner service)
5. Coach
6. Coach
7. Coach (gives you more, rather than a few less, seats)
I think there is room for a second sleeper if demand dictated. Here's the thing, in 2002 when they took the Superliner equipment off, it was because they really didn't have enough. Now, the Single Level equipment is really in shorter supply, given increased ridership on eastern trains and a good amount of Superliner equipment that was restored with Stimulus monies. So, it's easier for them to run it as a Superliner train than single level, at least until the new Viewliner equipment arrives in the next few years.
I'd be curious to know what you guys think of my numbers. I spent a morning crunching it when I should have been working at my office
Ryan
Court Jester
The problem with a long term Superliner Cardinal is that you lose the one seat ride to the NEC. When it went Superliner->Viewliner and was extended to New York, ridership increased a good bit.
Linda, sounds like 2 (1, 186) based on a post above.
Linda, sounds like 2 (1, 186) based on a post above.
Bravo, sir!
battalion51
Engineer
From what I hear the train today had two motors, most likely because it was pulling more cars, and heavier cars at that. I think the challenge with the Cardinal going back to Superliners is that they had a huge spike in overall ridership when the train was extended to New York. Yes I know there would be a connection available, but you lose ridership when you don't have the "one seat ride." I think a lot of the single level constraints will be eased in the coming years as the new equipment is brought online. The Cardinal is the poster child for a bag-dorm to get crews out of revenue rooms, and with so few stations offering checked baggage service, I can't imagine there being a huge demand for room in the baggage car. If they can get a Diner on here when one becomes available that will help step up the level of service on the train tremendously.
spidersfan351
Train Attendant
There were two engines on the Cardinal today.
I agree that the spike in ridership post-Superliner wasn't just the Cardinal, and I really do think that you would still have reasonably close numbers with a cross-platform connection. For starters, the train goes through small towns in West Virginia, Ohio, and Indiana primarily. Nothing against small communities, but these are not the sort of places where Amtrak really has to offer a one-seat ride to lure riders.
I agree that the spike in ridership post-Superliner wasn't just the Cardinal, and I really do think that you would still have reasonably close numbers with a cross-platform connection. For starters, the train goes through small towns in West Virginia, Ohio, and Indiana primarily. Nothing against small communities, but these are not the sort of places where Amtrak really has to offer a one-seat ride to lure riders.
Ryan
Court Jester
That sounds reasonable, but experience doesn't bear that out.
My understanding is that you lose somewhere around 50% of riders when you force a connection. It may vary from situation to situation (i.e. it might be "only" 40%), but you still lose a lot of folks by forcing a connection of some kind. Amtrak did actively look at the option of switching the Cardinal back to Superliner equipment with the PIPs, but opted against it because of lost ridership (among other issues).
spidersfan351
Train Attendant
I agree with both of you, generally speaking. Especially in places like Richmond (where I live), the northeast and most "suburban" type stations offering service to big cities. These riders want a low-stress, low-cost option to reach other places on the Amtrak system. In fact, moments ago I was convincing a buddy that he should take the Capitol Ltd to Toledo for a trip he has (it's like 1/3 the cost of flying), and he was very concerned about how much of a layover he would have in DC, and how many times he would have to change trains.
I only question if this is the case with Amtrak's Cardinal. It's a unique operation, it goes through a section of America that is extremely underserved with transportation options. The Cardinal is taking almost no one from CHI to NYP, as better options exist, and it's next biggest intermediate (non-NE Corridor) stop is Indianapolis, which is the strongest point in your argument - I could see someone from Indy choosing Amtrak over some other mode, at least until they see the equipment on the Cardinal. Here I would argue that Superliners could at least make up the difference in comfort, and help entice new or marginal riders to take the train.
After Indy, you have Cincinnati, which is so badly timed that it's difficult to imagine anyone but a lover of trains or person with no other option choosing Amtrak to anywhere north of Washington. Then you have Huntington and Charleston, both of which are the sort of cities and distances from the Northeast that it seems to me flying is either a foregone conclusion or out of the picture (or you are a train nut, like me). From there out, there are no more major metro areas that aren't served by a one seat Amtrak option - it's all small towns in WV or Virginia, many of which places where even the busses don't go.
My feelings are that the Card would do well to be sold as what it is - a beautiful, even nostalgic journey through the Appalachians and along one of America's more scenic eastern rivers. It isn't quick, it won't be reliable, but it does offer a level of service that is actually needed in that region. Plus, with Superliner comforts, I think you could make a better case for the train anyhow along the route.
I feel the present level of equipment is not meeting the standards of the typical traveling public with the choice of other modes of transport, and I feel the route will never allow for good enough timekeeping to properly serve in a manner that would provide true competition to other modes. I think that most Cardinal riders are on it because they have to be, it's the only show in town or they don't have another option financially. Those who I've met aboard in a dozen or so trips have nearly always expressed disappointment that the train isn't as nice or comfortable as they hoped or remembered. Most of these people were taking it more as an excursion, and were looking for the sort of experience that Superliners could offer. I would posit that a vast majority (north of 65-80 percent) of Cardinal passengers are either unable to take another means of getting to where they have to go, or unwilling to for reasons that a cross-platform transfer would not deter. Granted that is an entirely arbitrary figure, but it's my guess having watched and talked to many people over the years boarding and riding this train.
Just my thoughts. Again, you guys are spot on about cross-platform transfers in most circumstances. I just have my own weird theory about this train.
I only question if this is the case with Amtrak's Cardinal. It's a unique operation, it goes through a section of America that is extremely underserved with transportation options. The Cardinal is taking almost no one from CHI to NYP, as better options exist, and it's next biggest intermediate (non-NE Corridor) stop is Indianapolis, which is the strongest point in your argument - I could see someone from Indy choosing Amtrak over some other mode, at least until they see the equipment on the Cardinal. Here I would argue that Superliners could at least make up the difference in comfort, and help entice new or marginal riders to take the train.
After Indy, you have Cincinnati, which is so badly timed that it's difficult to imagine anyone but a lover of trains or person with no other option choosing Amtrak to anywhere north of Washington. Then you have Huntington and Charleston, both of which are the sort of cities and distances from the Northeast that it seems to me flying is either a foregone conclusion or out of the picture (or you are a train nut, like me). From there out, there are no more major metro areas that aren't served by a one seat Amtrak option - it's all small towns in WV or Virginia, many of which places where even the busses don't go.
My feelings are that the Card would do well to be sold as what it is - a beautiful, even nostalgic journey through the Appalachians and along one of America's more scenic eastern rivers. It isn't quick, it won't be reliable, but it does offer a level of service that is actually needed in that region. Plus, with Superliner comforts, I think you could make a better case for the train anyhow along the route.
I feel the present level of equipment is not meeting the standards of the typical traveling public with the choice of other modes of transport, and I feel the route will never allow for good enough timekeeping to properly serve in a manner that would provide true competition to other modes. I think that most Cardinal riders are on it because they have to be, it's the only show in town or they don't have another option financially. Those who I've met aboard in a dozen or so trips have nearly always expressed disappointment that the train isn't as nice or comfortable as they hoped or remembered. Most of these people were taking it more as an excursion, and were looking for the sort of experience that Superliners could offer. I would posit that a vast majority (north of 65-80 percent) of Cardinal passengers are either unable to take another means of getting to where they have to go, or unwilling to for reasons that a cross-platform transfer would not deter. Granted that is an entirely arbitrary figure, but it's my guess having watched and talked to many people over the years boarding and riding this train.
Just my thoughts. Again, you guys are spot on about cross-platform transfers in most circumstances. I just have my own weird theory about this train.
Ridership statistics on the Cardinal are available in an recently updated NARP Cardinal fact sheet. Before one suggests major changes to the service, is it not a good idea to have some numbers to guide the suggestions?
One key item to keep in mind when reading the ridership stats, is that the long trip stats are distorted by the lack of sleeper capacity. With only a few rooms available, CHI-WAS and CHI-NYP are going to have fewer riders.
The top 3 stops for passengers are CHI, Charlottesville, then WAS. Yes, CVS was #2 in FY13 in passengers getting on or off. I expect the CVS growth is a side effect of the Lynchburg Regional. CVS shows up for top city pairs by revenue after CHI-WAS as #1 with CVS-NYP as #2 and CVS-CHI as #3. Cincinnati despite its lousy times of day for service, does ok with 14.8K passengers in 2013 or about 49 getting on or off per train. Much of the business that the Cardinal picked up when it was extended to NYP was CVS and other VA, WV stops to PHL & NYP. Would lose some of that business by cutting the Cardinal off at WAS.
If the Viewliner II delivery stays on the latest announced schedule, the Cardinal should get a bag-dorm, a diner car, then a 2nd sleeper car over the next 2+ years. That will improve the amenities on the train. Then if Amtrak eventually could get funds from Congress for an Amfleet II replacement follow-on order, the eastern trains could have the Amfleet II diner/lounge cars replaced with a Viewliner II diner/lounge car with the double row of windows. While not a SSL, it would be an upgrade for the lounge cars in the eastern LD trains.
The proper solution for the Cardinal is getting some of the new Viewliner IIs, then someday daily service, then if/when the funding is provided, Amfleet II replacements. And track upgrades on the route for better on-time performance and trimming the total trip time a little. VA is doing its share with the state funds that it is putting into the Buckingham Branch and the NS tracks.
Going by NARP's numbers, in 2013 (by whatever definition they used for 2013), the Cardinal had:
NYP: 11,651
NWK: 2,433
TRE: 945
PHL: 6,490
WIL: 1,853
BAL: 2,692
That's 23,874 riders out of 110,767 (21.55%) boarding beyond WAS. Remember...while not many of those are end-to-end, the sum of those stations to CHI is likely not trivial, and you've got additional traffic to/from stations like Charlottesville, Cincinnati, and Indianapolis. Another way to look at it is that if the train ran daily, it would provide a meaningful third daily train from the NEC to Charlottesville (incidentally, CVS jockeys with WAS for the #2 station in terms of activity, and CVS-NYP is the #2 city pair), which would likely add a huge slug of riders.
There's an apt comparison between the Cardinal at Charlottesville and the Silver Star at Richmond: Both are towards the back end of long-distance routes, but both generate substantial traffic (the Star often adds 30-40 passengers headed NB). In the Cardinal's case, it would provide a nice "reverse-peak" option (contra to the Crescent and Lynchburger in the morning) from Charlottesville, so you'd likely see substantial synergies there.
NYP: 11,651
NWK: 2,433
TRE: 945
PHL: 6,490
WIL: 1,853
BAL: 2,692
That's 23,874 riders out of 110,767 (21.55%) boarding beyond WAS. Remember...while not many of those are end-to-end, the sum of those stations to CHI is likely not trivial, and you've got additional traffic to/from stations like Charlottesville, Cincinnati, and Indianapolis. Another way to look at it is that if the train ran daily, it would provide a meaningful third daily train from the NEC to Charlottesville (incidentally, CVS jockeys with WAS for the #2 station in terms of activity, and CVS-NYP is the #2 city pair), which would likely add a huge slug of riders.
There's an apt comparison between the Cardinal at Charlottesville and the Silver Star at Richmond: Both are towards the back end of long-distance routes, but both generate substantial traffic (the Star often adds 30-40 passengers headed NB). In the Cardinal's case, it would provide a nice "reverse-peak" option (contra to the Crescent and Lynchburger in the morning) from Charlottesville, so you'd likely see substantial synergies there.
N
Nathanaelb
Guest
I understand that Horizons have a particularly bad reputation in cold weather. I did not realize that Amfleets and Viewliners had a worse reputation than Superliners in cold weather.
PHL & WIL do not have one-seat trains to CHI. It was nice getting on the Cardinal in WIL for my trip to CHI in October though I do not mind layovers.
VentureForth
Engineer
If I am in a sleeper, a one seat ride is imperative. In fact, I get annoyed that often when I look for a ticket from SAV to BOS, they want to kick me out of the sleeper in WAS rather than NYP. Yes, it's still a two seat ride no matter what, but my point is that I would like to get as far as I can in a sleeper. If I were in coach, I could care less if I had to switch trains once or maybe even twice - so long as the connections were reliable. In addition, I wouldn't completely mind a two seat ride if I switched from a sleeper to Acela - if it meant getting there faster than staying on my train.
The latter being considered, if Cardinal sleeping pax were offered a transfer to an Acela FC from WAS to NYP, I think ridership would increase. Not a scientific poll - just a guess based on my preference. I don't think Acela has enough seats to accomodate, though.
The latter being considered, if Cardinal sleeping pax were offered a transfer to an Acela FC from WAS to NYP, I think ridership would increase. Not a scientific poll - just a guess based on my preference. I don't think Acela has enough seats to accomodate, though.
spidersfan351
Train Attendant
Fair points, all around. I agree with you guys that new Viewliner equipment is the real key. A second sleeper, a real diner, and just a dedicated cafe/lounge (instead of this combo sillyness) would greatly increase what this train offers. Also, daily service would be a huge boost, as it would allow a later option north/east bound for Virginia.
I personally find Superliner-equipped trains more pleasant, both for sleeper and coach travel, and perhaps I'm relying too much on every Amtrak rider thinking like I do. I've ridden every long distance route except for the Lake Shore, and when people ask what my favorite train is, I still feel like it's the Cardinal - I just cannot recommend it to anyone in it's present state. My dad and I are coming from Oakland to Virginia in three weeks, and we never even really considered it. The Capitol just has such a better setup for an overnight run, with a full dining car and a SSL.
Best case scenario, to me, would be for Amtrak to make the Cardinal identical to Silver Service/Crescent/Lake Shore sets, and simply rotate them all around. That way, you'd at least get a civilized trainset for your 12pm arrival in Chicago.
I personally find Superliner-equipped trains more pleasant, both for sleeper and coach travel, and perhaps I'm relying too much on every Amtrak rider thinking like I do. I've ridden every long distance route except for the Lake Shore, and when people ask what my favorite train is, I still feel like it's the Cardinal - I just cannot recommend it to anyone in it's present state. My dad and I are coming from Oakland to Virginia in three weeks, and we never even really considered it. The Capitol just has such a better setup for an overnight run, with a full dining car and a SSL.
Best case scenario, to me, would be for Amtrak to make the Cardinal identical to Silver Service/Crescent/Lake Shore sets, and simply rotate them all around. That way, you'd at least get a civilized trainset for your 12pm arrival in Chicago.
- Joined
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- 8,508
BTW, the Cardinal with the Superliner equipment - #51(5) - is now stuck in Indianapolis due to frozen switches. The rest of the trip has been cancelled.
A further thought: The Cardinal was "only" 2:39 late into/out of IND. That's not absurd, and the Cardinal should have very close to 4:00 to make the Zephyr IIRC (not counting padding at CHI). It seems likely that if not for the bad switch, the train would have been fine. Late, but fine.
Also, I checked the Amtrak page for schedules...it looks like they run a bus at 1101 that's scheduled to get to CHI at 1340, which should make all LD connections.
Also, I checked the Amtrak page for schedules...it looks like they run a bus at 1101 that's scheduled to get to CHI at 1340, which should make all LD connections.
MikefromCrete
Engineer
The bus might make it, except for the fact that I-65 is completely closed between Lafayette and Gary. Lots of snow and extreme cold temperatures at fault.
abcnews
OBS Chief
Here is what they should consider for the Cardinal...
Depart NYP as #51A to Washington, DC. Once in Washington, have a unique "cross platform" transfer from the Amfleet train over to a waiting Supeliner train - on the opposite side of the same platform. The Superliner train would be train #51B. It would have the baggage, Transdorm, one SL sleeper, CCC or diner, and Sightseer, plus two or three SL coaches.
It would actually save time. Currently the Cardinal will sit idle in WAS for about an hour. I think that is to allow schedule pad and to change the engine. I was on this train in October from Trenton, NJ to Chicago and we were there about 55 minutes. I went into the station and walked around, even stopped off at the Acela Lounge. It was a long wait. Yet we departed on time.
They could have #51B (the Superline portion) go from DC to Chicago. The Amfleet train would be turned, cleaned and use for the northbound Cardinal. It could have 3 coaches and a BC car for sleeper passengers, plus a baggage car. The Superliner consist would pull out of the DC yard to load the DC passengers upon the Amfleet Cardinal departing Baltimore. Then they could go ahead and pre board the Washington passengers. Once 51A arrives in the station, they simply walk across the platform to the waiting train. Once everyone boards - it pulls out, no engine to switch, etc...
A cross platform change would be nothing like a typical change of trains. In a typical change, you have to depart the train, walk up int the terminal. wait in a waiting area until they announce the connecting train. In a cross platform, you just get off the first train, and walk across the platform to the waiting superliner train.
If Amtrak were to consider doing this, it would free up two Viewliner sleepers, as well as 6 Amfleet ll coach cars. Both are in short supply. And it would cut time off the current schedule. A "win-win" proposition.
I also understand that there are ample spare CCCs in the system. I think any of us would much prefer having a Superliner CCC on the Cardinal verses the current dinning/lounge car situation. For the current 3 day a week service, it would require the use of two CCCs, two sightseer lounges, two superliner sleepers and either 4 or 6 SL coaches.
Depart NYP as #51A to Washington, DC. Once in Washington, have a unique "cross platform" transfer from the Amfleet train over to a waiting Supeliner train - on the opposite side of the same platform. The Superliner train would be train #51B. It would have the baggage, Transdorm, one SL sleeper, CCC or diner, and Sightseer, plus two or three SL coaches.
It would actually save time. Currently the Cardinal will sit idle in WAS for about an hour. I think that is to allow schedule pad and to change the engine. I was on this train in October from Trenton, NJ to Chicago and we were there about 55 minutes. I went into the station and walked around, even stopped off at the Acela Lounge. It was a long wait. Yet we departed on time.
They could have #51B (the Superline portion) go from DC to Chicago. The Amfleet train would be turned, cleaned and use for the northbound Cardinal. It could have 3 coaches and a BC car for sleeper passengers, plus a baggage car. The Superliner consist would pull out of the DC yard to load the DC passengers upon the Amfleet Cardinal departing Baltimore. Then they could go ahead and pre board the Washington passengers. Once 51A arrives in the station, they simply walk across the platform to the waiting train. Once everyone boards - it pulls out, no engine to switch, etc...
A cross platform change would be nothing like a typical change of trains. In a typical change, you have to depart the train, walk up int the terminal. wait in a waiting area until they announce the connecting train. In a cross platform, you just get off the first train, and walk across the platform to the waiting superliner train.
If Amtrak were to consider doing this, it would free up two Viewliner sleepers, as well as 6 Amfleet ll coach cars. Both are in short supply. And it would cut time off the current schedule. A "win-win" proposition.
I also understand that there are ample spare CCCs in the system. I think any of us would much prefer having a Superliner CCC on the Cardinal verses the current dinning/lounge car situation. For the current 3 day a week service, it would require the use of two CCCs, two sightseer lounges, two superliner sleepers and either 4 or 6 SL coaches.
Ryan
Court Jester
Cross platform transfer?
Losing your sleeper at WAS, even if you're going to NYP?
Nope. Destined to fail for all the reasons already mentioned in the thread.
Losing your sleeper at WAS, even if you're going to NYP?
Nope. Destined to fail for all the reasons already mentioned in the thread.
spidersfan351
Train Attendant
In this instance, even if Amtrak loses a few passengers to transfers, they can free up precious single level equipment that they don't have enough of right now - Amfleet II's and Viewliners.
If you really want a sleeping car service north of WAS, you could still provide it with a few added efficiencies. You would save one Viewliner Sleeper and three Amfleet II coaches, plus crew time - a substantial expense. And, you would add substantial capacity for both sleepers and coach service, at almost no additional cost.
Look, perhaps this is more worthy of a new thread, but if we are discussing the Cardinal, it really is not at all acceptable right now. I have ridden just about every long distance route on Amtrak in the last three years (30,000 miles and counting), and while the Cardinal is my favorite route (I'll always love the C&O), the equipment presently makes it Amtrak's worst long distance train by a mile. I much prefer the old Superliner consists, and would instead argue for a cross-platform transfer for Washington, utilizing a cafe car, three Amfleet II coaches (presently used) and a Viewliner sleeper (saving one). The train would run NYP-WAS in the AM and would provide first class connection service for both the Cardinal and the Capitol Ltd southbound. Northbound would be a first-class option WAS to NYP in the evening, and would run shortly behind the Star.
I say this because the current arrangement is just not acceptable to a train passenger, particularly on such a scenic route. There is only half a lounge car, typically full, and Amtrak's second best coach solution (single level Amfleet II's) for a long overnight route. The lack of a real dining car is painfully apparent, the food on this train also lags significantly behind any other Amtrak offering. As a sleeper passenger, I frequently feel confined to my room rather than being able to enjoy the train.
This idea would solve the problem, and only require a single set of three Amfleet II coaches (currently scarce) instead on two, and only two Viewliner sleepers (currently utilized) and two regular NE Regional Cafe cars (in lieu of the current combo cafe/diner spork-class service) to serve the present tri-weekly schedule. On the Superliner side, a Sightseer lounge would be appreciated when available (fleet size limitations would not allow this to be guaranteed, if not available, a CC), two CCC's for dining service, which Amtrak has several extras, four Superliner Coaches (also a surplus, particularly with some western and midwestern routes ordering new equipment), two Superliner Sleepers (to meet current service), and a pair of baggage cars (same as used now - and could be run-through on both trains). This builds you a Superliner consist equivalent to what you have now: One Baggage, One Sleeper, One Diner, Two Coaches (148 seats, instead of 177). The difference in coach capacity would be offset by increased sleeper capacity. You would now have 13 roomettes (12 currently), 5 bedrooms (2 currently, sleeps up to 3), 1 family bedroom (none currently, sleeps up to four) and 1 handicap room (same). Obviously your sleeping cars would bring in a higher return on revenue per mile, more than making up the difference in lost coach seats.
Of course, in order to save that one Viewliner, you would only be able to sell one Viewliner's worth of sleeping berths NYP-WAS, but that should be fine. You would still have an increase for most of the route. I would suggest you use both and add a Superliner Sleeper to the CHI-WAS section.
The same schedule could be employed, and LD crews (Coach attendant, Sleeping Car Attendant's, Dining Car staff) could terminate in WAS and hand train to NE Regional crew for remainder of trip. This would be easier as there is presently a far larger crew pool for this run than the LD route, and a single Sleeping car attendant could handle both cars since no turn down would be required (or would be sparse at the most).
Again, I know this probably won't happen, but it actually would work. If we are discussing the realm of what could be done to improve the Cardinal, I think it's worth an entry. Now, back to the snow...
It's not like Amtrak has lots of spare Superliner cars sitting around to make this happen. In fact, the only way that they're currently pulling this off is to run a late Capitol Limited out of DC.
The only way to find the needed sleepers is to kill the west coast protect set for the EB; which in turn will probably need to be killed during the summer months anyhow to meet the peak summer demand. Coaches they may have enough for that. And CCC's are easy. SSL's; I'm not sure, but I think that they don't have many spares.
And even when the Card was Superliner years ago, it never got a Trans/Dorm as there weren't enough of them to go around.
The only way to find the needed sleepers is to kill the west coast protect set for the EB; which in turn will probably need to be killed during the summer months anyhow to meet the peak summer demand. Coaches they may have enough for that. And CCC's are easy. SSL's; I'm not sure, but I think that they don't have many spares.
And even when the Card was Superliner years ago, it never got a Trans/Dorm as there weren't enough of them to go around.
Ethan Klapper
Train Attendant
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Alright, 50 (7) left CHI only 53 minutes late. Is it a Viewliner or Superliner consist today?
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