spidersfan351
Train Attendant
Virginia has been looking to increase service to Tidewater (Newport News/Norfolk) for some time. Present plans call for an additional regional to Norfolk, and eventually a third that would just run to Richmond. My thought is, why not extend the Capitol Ltd to cover one of these runs?
Here is what I understand -
- Virginia wants more access to Tidewater, present assumption is trains to New York
- This would provide one-seat access for Norfolk(and in between Petersburg, Richmond, Ashland (maybe), Fredericksburg) to Chicago
- It's a new destination, and thus, a great offering. Military and civilians working in defense and shipping industry have access to Rust Belt
- Provides RVR-Pittsburgh service with one seat - this is presently one I anecdotally hear about from friends. It's too expensive to fly, too long to drive
Equipment-wise, it wouldn't make a difference since Amtrak only originates one Superliner train in DC. They keep an extra set on the eastbound terminal already, since the turnaround time window is too narrow. They would not need an additional set of equipment.
From a scheduling perspective, using current speeds, the westbound train could leave Norfolk at 11:15 am and arrive in time (3:30p) for a 4:05 pm departure from DC (based on schedule from #94 now).
The eastbound would arrive in Washington (sans-protection time of 20 minutes) at 12:45pm. Keep it the same, assume 1:05 with a 1:25 pm departure, and you fit nicely between the Carolinian and the Silver Star. This would have the following times in Virginia (based on Carolinian trip times);
- ALX - 1:43 pm
- FBG - 2:27 pm
- RVR - 3:30 pm
Let's suppose that for political considerations, the train goes to Norfolk via the N&W, with a bus connection to Virginia Beach
- PTB - 4:13 pm
- NFK - 5:53 pm (Bus to VA Beach arrives at 6:33 pm)
The westbound edition would go as follows:
- NFK - 11:00 am
- PTB - 12:27 pm (connections south to Raleigh, Charlotte, Charleston, Savannah, Florida)
- RVR - 1:03 pm
- FBG - 2:03 pm
- ALX - 3:08 pm
- WAS - 3:30 pm (departs 4:05 pm) (connections north to Baltimore, Philly, NYC, Boston)
From a financial standpoint, I'm not sure how much additional cost this would actually incur. You would have to run crews from NFK to WAS, but you could use current crew pools for this. Your long distance dining and sleeping car staff could still go from WAS. All you really need (if you really want to make the case for this train) is three coaches and the SSL open for the run from NFK. Maybe have one SCA for the start, and pick up the second in WAS? It could go either way.
From an operational standpoint, the Cardinal used to (and still does on occasion) run Superliner equipment, so the tunnel through DC wouldn't be a problem. CSX's busy RF&P sub is the main issue here, but to add any additional trains, this will require investment from Virginia - investment they already plan to make. I know trains take up space, but I really don't think capacity is a big issue right now on the N&W from Collier Yard in Petersburg to Norfolk.
By adding this, you really get the most bang for you buck. You add connections from Norfolk to Pittsburgh, Chicago, and points south like Raleigh, Charlotte, Charleston, Savannah and Florida. The city of Norfolk and the commonwealth of Virginia have already made significant investments in the Norfolk Amtrak facility. From a public relations/political standpoint, this would be like bringing in a new airline to a brand new airport, instead of adding one more connecting flight to New York. Here are some of the offerings:
- Leave Norfolk at 11:15, arrive Raleigh at 4:42 pm, Charlotte at 8:12 pm, Charleston at 7:14 pm, Savannah at 8:59 pm, Pittsburgh at 11:48 pm, Chicago at 8:30 am (next day one seat)
- Overnight service to Florida, connections to points west via Chicago
My dad suggested this the other day, and I've been thinking about it for probably a week. It really seems to work well when you give it thought.
Here is what I understand -
- Virginia wants more access to Tidewater, present assumption is trains to New York
- This would provide one-seat access for Norfolk(and in between Petersburg, Richmond, Ashland (maybe), Fredericksburg) to Chicago
- It's a new destination, and thus, a great offering. Military and civilians working in defense and shipping industry have access to Rust Belt
- Provides RVR-Pittsburgh service with one seat - this is presently one I anecdotally hear about from friends. It's too expensive to fly, too long to drive
Equipment-wise, it wouldn't make a difference since Amtrak only originates one Superliner train in DC. They keep an extra set on the eastbound terminal already, since the turnaround time window is too narrow. They would not need an additional set of equipment.
From a scheduling perspective, using current speeds, the westbound train could leave Norfolk at 11:15 am and arrive in time (3:30p) for a 4:05 pm departure from DC (based on schedule from #94 now).
The eastbound would arrive in Washington (sans-protection time of 20 minutes) at 12:45pm. Keep it the same, assume 1:05 with a 1:25 pm departure, and you fit nicely between the Carolinian and the Silver Star. This would have the following times in Virginia (based on Carolinian trip times);
- ALX - 1:43 pm
- FBG - 2:27 pm
- RVR - 3:30 pm
Let's suppose that for political considerations, the train goes to Norfolk via the N&W, with a bus connection to Virginia Beach
- PTB - 4:13 pm
- NFK - 5:53 pm (Bus to VA Beach arrives at 6:33 pm)
The westbound edition would go as follows:
- NFK - 11:00 am
- PTB - 12:27 pm (connections south to Raleigh, Charlotte, Charleston, Savannah, Florida)
- RVR - 1:03 pm
- FBG - 2:03 pm
- ALX - 3:08 pm
- WAS - 3:30 pm (departs 4:05 pm) (connections north to Baltimore, Philly, NYC, Boston)
From a financial standpoint, I'm not sure how much additional cost this would actually incur. You would have to run crews from NFK to WAS, but you could use current crew pools for this. Your long distance dining and sleeping car staff could still go from WAS. All you really need (if you really want to make the case for this train) is three coaches and the SSL open for the run from NFK. Maybe have one SCA for the start, and pick up the second in WAS? It could go either way.
From an operational standpoint, the Cardinal used to (and still does on occasion) run Superliner equipment, so the tunnel through DC wouldn't be a problem. CSX's busy RF&P sub is the main issue here, but to add any additional trains, this will require investment from Virginia - investment they already plan to make. I know trains take up space, but I really don't think capacity is a big issue right now on the N&W from Collier Yard in Petersburg to Norfolk.
By adding this, you really get the most bang for you buck. You add connections from Norfolk to Pittsburgh, Chicago, and points south like Raleigh, Charlotte, Charleston, Savannah and Florida. The city of Norfolk and the commonwealth of Virginia have already made significant investments in the Norfolk Amtrak facility. From a public relations/political standpoint, this would be like bringing in a new airline to a brand new airport, instead of adding one more connecting flight to New York. Here are some of the offerings:
- Leave Norfolk at 11:15, arrive Raleigh at 4:42 pm, Charlotte at 8:12 pm, Charleston at 7:14 pm, Savannah at 8:59 pm, Pittsburgh at 11:48 pm, Chicago at 8:30 am (next day one seat)
- Overnight service to Florida, connections to points west via Chicago
My dad suggested this the other day, and I've been thinking about it for probably a week. It really seems to work well when you give it thought.
Last edited by a moderator: