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I will be vacationing in Florida in two weeks. Just booked a trip on Brightline - Orlando to Miami and back. Will plan to have a quick restaurant lunch in Miami while there. Please pass along any lunch recommendations near Miami Central.
Kush Wynwood is pretty close and has great food (their Frita is spectacular), but it’s not super big. If you want to get closer to the water, but a little bit farther, Monty’s in Coconut Grove is pretty big and has decent lunch (prefer the seafood over the burgers.)
 
About a month ago, I made reservations for a roundtrip from ORL to WPB for next week. The reservations are still in my account, but it appears that after the schedule change, eliminating some trains, neither of my trains is running that day. I phoned Brightline and spoke to an agent, who appeared to be confused. The agent placed me on hold so she could contact the scheduler to check on the status of my reservation. After over 40 minutes on hold, I was disconnected. The agent has not tried to contact me by email or phone and I am a bit ticked.

One of my neighbors works for Brightline and I wrote him a note explaining my situation and placed the note under his door.

I figure eventually, I will get an email from Brightline.

Edit to add: my neighbor texted me to tell me that the scheduler had not yet gotten to my reservation, but would. I will be put on other trains. (I had very good seats on my original reservation - facing forward. Hopefully I will get similar seats).
 
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So, a few thoughts as I head into Miami:
(2) The wifi is a bit erratic. Not horrible, but it does cut in and out an annoying amount.
Can you compare the wifi vs that on Amtrak’s NEC?

One could legitimately say that every inch of Shinkansen track is purpose built. There was very little standard gauge main line trackage in Japan before Shinkansen was built. I don't recall when the first standard gauge subway was built. There have been some segments of standard gauge main line built not specifically for Shinkansen since then.

For Brightline the entire route was purpose rebuilt on an existing right of way, or built on new RoW. The tracks as they are today would never have been built even on the FECR segment in its current form if there were no Brightline. FECR's previous existing trackage was perfectly adequate for any growth plans sans Brightline that FECR had for many decades to come. The nature of the RoW however is such that it would be prohibitively expensive to try to install and operate any trackage above 110mph on it.

I do fully agree with your final point. I would say that what matters most is the end to end running time fits the purpose of the service and the convenience that it brings to the clientele, so as to make them willing customers, repeat ones many times if possible.
I would probably just add in that it’s prohibitively expensive to do so under existing FRA guidelines. I’m sure it would be very manageable to upgrade the WPB to Cocoa section to 125mph if that did not in fact require grade separation. Not here to say if that rule is correct or not, I just was pointing out that upgrading the track to higher spec wasn’t the exact issue at hand, more so the crossing eliminations
 
From many of the videos I’ve seen on YouTube, it looks like the Cocoa to WPB section is still limited to 90mph until further FRA approval (which maybe why the opening was delayed and why trains are running behind schedule). Can’t tell if this is also the case on the Cocoa to Orlando section
 
I would agree. Horse drawn stage coachs also had classes of travel. I wonder where the name for the class of travel called "coach" came from?

A sample fare schedule posted at Lincoln, New Hampshire:
- 1st class: $7.00 (rode all the way)
- 2nd class: had to walk at bad places on the road
- 3rd class: same as above, but also had to push at hills
Clark's Trading Post?
 
Amtrak WiFi is a joke, I don't even bother. If I need my laptop, I'll use my hotspot. I hope the new equipment will allow for better connectivity than one antenna in the cafe car 😂

@pennyk I thought the schedule was changing to add trains, not subtract. What trains are being eliminated?
 
@pennyk I thought the schedule was changing to add trains, not subtract. What trains are being eliminated?
When I made my reservations, there were about 16 trains a day (one each hour). The schedule was changed to 8 trains a day (every other hour). Unfortunately, both trains I chose were ones that were eliminated (temporarily, I believe).
I am guessing they will reaccommodate me with either earlier or later trains. I guess I will find out sooner or later. I am very disappointed since the times I chose worked well for my schedule. 🤷‍♀️
 
a timecard - I doubt there's really a good reason to have a daily deadhead move, and even if the train were only going to WPB I feel like they could sell enough tickets to justify crewing it).
They do not need to D/H. Just connect one train set to another and operate a longer train with second set empty. No extra crew needed!
 
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When I made my reservations, there were about 16 trains a day (one each hour). The schedule was changed to 8 trains a day (every other hour). Unfortunately, both trains I chose were ones that were eliminated (temporarily, I believe).
I am guessing they will reaccommodate me with either earlier or later trains. I guess I will find out sooner or later. I am very disappointed since the times I chose worked well for my schedule. 🤷‍♀️
According to their booking site, hourly departures are set to start back up on 10/24. Perhaps demand isn’t realized and it’s a cost cutting effort?

From many of the videos I’ve seen on YouTube, it looks like the Cocoa to WPB section is still limited to 90mph until further FRA approval (which maybe why the opening was delayed and why trains are running behind schedule). Can’t tell if this is also the case on the Cocoa to Orlando section

I have no idea how to track OTP. Seems like if the speeds aren’t fully realized yet, that would be figured into their schedule, not frequency. The scheduled travel time doesn’t change with frequency. Roughly 3:30.

The delays to date, based on the vlogs, seem to be caused by trespassers - pedestrians and vehicles fouling the crossings. And, on one video, a hard stop due to “technical problems”.

Have all train sets been fully delivered? Are some down for repair?
 
On opening day of WPB - MCO, one commenter on YouTube said there was a noticeably flat wheel. BL does need to emergency stop fairly often.
I noticed that on one of the videos, I think it was Lonestar Trip Reports. He was in the first train leaving MCO, in Premium Class.

As far as the comments about this only being higher speed rail, yes it would be great if we had a French LGV style 300 kph line. But this is a step forward and even as "higher speed rail" it is competitive with driving and even air travel when you consider all the extra time required at an airport. This is the USA, we have a long way to go and this is a great first step. I hope it will be successful and inspire other services elsewhere.
 
Brightline is partnering with a limo-type company at MCO, rather than uber/lyft. I can't think of an airline that's done that. BRIGHTLINE ANNOUNCES ORLANDO TRANSPORTATION PARTNERS | Brightline

On opening day of WPB - MCO, one commenter on youtube said there was a noticeably flat wheel. BL does need to emergency stop fairly often. Also noted was that BL has to negotiate with FECR, not always cordially. The proposed partnership with Sunrail also came up as contentious. These are all normal railroad things.

I don't think Brightline should have to go into emergency "fairly often", but there were notable instances on day one for sure. As for negotiating with with FECR, my understanding is that relationship was preserved from way back when they were still essentially the same group (jis can chime in here). Certainly, a much better relationship than Amtrak has with its hosts. Regardless, running on a flat wheel is bad customer service (but can't be helped if the flat happened on that trip).

The persistent argument that people need their cars at their destination came up a lot, with the retort that flying is the same.

Yep.

Miles in Transit mentioned several times he thought that having security screening was odd. Welcome to Florida, land of gated communities and HOA's. Tri-Rail was the direct competition on MIA-WPB, going through an area of less wealth, and wealth disparity, than BL's coastal route. Then again, this is the guy who reviewed the North Philadelphia Amtrak station, a sort of disaster zone. (One with potential, since the North Broad Street commuter station is nearby, he noted.)

I guess I'm in the minority here. Not a huge fan of Miles. His reporting is juvenile (certainly a market in the young adult genre of today), but most of his filming was out of focus. I think he actually called the security "Airport Security". After using the word "thingy" a few times, and getting dizzy by his fast panning and unstable shots, I got through it. Bravo to him for getting one of the first videos posted. Bummed it wasn't The Roaming Railfan (Note: he finally posted one last night).

Also, many people don't know new BL stations are paid for by local governments.

I don't think that's 100% the case. I want to say Brightline funded the original stations - WPB, FLL and MIA and I'm sure they put in a pretty penny for MCO. This would be expected because it's Brightline's project and not having stations would be useless. That was for the basics of their business model. It's too early in the AM and I'm not researching. Plenty of folks here are ready to pounce on my inaccuracies. That being said, I DID see that Aventura was paid for by taxpayers. But they approached Brightline - not the other way around. Aventura needs Brightline. Adding the stop slows Brightline down. I'm guessing the same for Boca. Note both of these are also going to be eventually used by Tri-Rail. The more stations between MCO and MIA, the slower the service gets. They need to start seriously looking at leap-frogging express trains. Even immediately, do ALL trains HAVE to stop at all stations? Can some bypass Boca and Aventura?
 
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I guess I'm in the minority here. Not a huge fan of Miles. His reporting is juvenile (certainly a market in the young adult genre of today), but most of his filming was out of focus. I think he actually called the security "Airport Security". After using the word "thingy" a few times, and getting dizzy by his fast panning and unstable shots, I got through it. Bravo to him for getting one of the first videos posted.
Count me in that group too. The continual sarcasm gets tired and a recent review he did here showed some ignorance of basic railroad operations. His new "opener", taunting the likes of Paul Lucas and Jeb Brooks, seemed uncalled for as well. Some of the most thorough reviews are when two or more vloggers work together as several have done recently.
 
I don't think Brightline should have to go into emergency "fairly often", but there were notable instances on day one for sure. As for negotiating with with FECR, my understanding is that relationship was preserved from way back when they were still essentially the same group (jis can chime in here). Certainly, a much better relationship than Amtrak has with its hosts. Regardless, running on a flat wheel is bad customer service (but can't be helped if the flat happened on that trip).



Yep.



I guess I'm in the minority here. Not a huge fan of Miles. His reporting is juvenile (certainly a market in the young adult genre of today), but most of his filming was out of focus. I think he actually called the security "Airport Security". After using the word "thingy" a few times, and getting dizzy by his fast panning and unstable shots, I got through it. Bravo to him for getting one of the first videos posted. Bummed it wasn't The Roaming Railfan (Note: he finally posted one last night).



I don't think that's 100% the case. I want to say Brightline funded the original stations - WPB, FLL and MIA and I'm sure they put in a pretty penny for MCO. This would be expected because it's Brightline's project and not having stations would be useless. That was for the basics of their business model. It's too early in the AM and I'm not researching. Plenty of folks here are ready to pounce on my inaccuracies. That being said, I DID see that Aventura was paid for by taxpayers. But they approached Brightline - not the other way around. Aventura needs Brightline. Adding the stop slows Brightline down. I'm guessing the same for Boca. Note both of these are also going to be eventually used by Tri-Rail. The more stations between MCO and MIA, the slower the service gets. They need to start seriously looking at leap-frogging express trains. Even immediately, do ALL trains HAVE to stop at all stations? Can some bypass Boca and Aventura?

Yeah, I was really just guessing about sudden braking due to vehicles and people on the tracks so often.

Roaming Railfan is the gold standard for technical and logistical stuff, but he never criticizes. Miles on the other hand is scatter-shot and fun-oriented, while he is working on a degree in the subject. I was surprised about his errors in the video, but really it's like they used to say about newspapers - you notice the mistakes if it's something you know about. (He thought Cocoa-MCO was ready for full double-track on seeing the wide roadbed, but it would need spans on those pylons built extra wide for that reason.) There's also the prolific RM Transit, who is proudly self-taught and does not want a degree; he mainly discusses policy. Somebody here said they never watch a video if the thumbnail has a face. I don't go that far, but the penchant to watch (or listen) rather than read is strong, especially if there is dialog with more than one voice to suss out things. Happens in the sciences too, when trying to get the scoop.

I'm also not sure about the funding of the original three stations. Port Miami was dropped as the first new station, on a spur, when Miami Dade withdrew support. Aventura has the fanciest mall in the county, on the border with Broward County, and was supported. The missing ped bridge is a mystery. Boca Raton in Palm Beach County was supported. The localities probably get some offset by fed grants.

Any infill stations between WPB and Cocoa seem highly likely to be dependent on a money deal. At Cocoa itself, local news reported a specific land purchase, not sure the buyer. As for the route west of MCO, I can't figure it out, Disney vs. Convention/Universal, southern wealthy neighbors vs. northern boosters, the longstanding local competition with "The Mouse," Sunrail the little railroad that could expanding north, Disney cutting shuttle service at MCO even to its massive cruise operation at Cocoa (I think?). Notorious traffic on a highway with an available median on the southern side, I believe. For a while it seemed like follow-the-money, the city boosters wanted a nice train from BL for free, based on reading a pro-Convention editorial in the Sun Sentinel, but then the narrative seemed like BL looking for spare change in the couch by partnering with Sunrail as it had trouble with a bond offering and then interest rates went up. Or BL genuinely wants commuter rail connections. I'm speculating worse than a video blogger!

The two new infill stations do have adjacent low-level commuter platforms ready to go.
 
Yeah, I was really just guessing about sudden braking due to vehicles and people on the tracks so often.

I have asked the FECRS folks many of whom currently work for FECR or are retired from it and still have connections. The impression I get is that BL or FECR do Emergency Braking only at points where they are about to hit something big. They do not emergency brake in general for small things that will not cause any harm to the train because emergency braking is risky involving a certain risk of derailment. Siemens' ABS does no always work as advertised for various reasons and that could cause a flat, even when no emergency braking is involved. An Emergency Braking caused flat will often require taking the set out of service until fixed because they do not meet FRA requirements for wheel profile anymore.
I'm also not sure about the funding of the original three stations.
They were funded as part of the project by BL. No external funding, beyond the tax free municipal bonds.
Port Miami was dropped as the first new station, on a spur, when Miami Dade withdrew support.
Don't know how much Miami Dade had to do with it. The original impetus came from the Virgin Group to connect to Virgin Cruise. When Virgin went away the station went away. It is possible that Miami-Dade had jumped on Board with Virgin, but they were not the initiator of that station.
Aventura has the fanciest mall in the county, on the border with Broward County, and was supported. The missing ped bridge is a mystery. Boca Raton in Palm Beach County was supported. The localities probably get some offset by fed grants.
I think of these stations as the first step in the whole Northeast Corridor scheme, which will involve construction of many stations funded by Miami-Dade and Broward. The difference is that only these will be served by Brightline. The others will only be served by TriRail.
Any infill stations between WPB and Cocoa seem highly likely to be dependent on a money deal. At Cocoa itself, local news reported a specific land purchase, not sure the buyer. As for the route west of MCO, I can't figure it out, Disney vs. Convention/Universal, southern wealthy neighbors vs. northern boosters, the longstanding local competition with "The Mouse," Sunrail the little railroad that could expanding north, Disney cutting shuttle service at MCO even to its massive cruise operation at Cocoa (I think?).

I certainly can't figure out what you say above. :rolleyes:

The current situation is that all parties (except Disney, who has dropped out of the running because they wanted an exclusive station of their own and is not going to get it) have settled on the alignment called Sunshine Corridor which will be owned by the City and funded mostly by the government (federal grants is what they are dreaming about), that follows the Taft-Vineland alignment from SunRail to the Convention Center and then along I-4 to the I-Drive station across I-4 from Disney Springs. There will be a station at Universal/Convention Center significantly funded by Universal. Of course the connection from the airport to SunRail will be along the industrial spur that passes south of the airport and was used to deliver the train sets to Brightline at OIA.

Incidentally this has been discussed in some detail somewhere in this thread a while back.

The Disney (as well as Carnival and several other) Cruise Lines operates out of Port Canaveral. There is not going to be any passenger rail connection to Port Canaveral for passenger use since it is impractical and hugely expensive to build a direct link from Cocoa to Port Canaveral. It involves crossing two rivers, one of which is the Intercoastal Waterway so will require 50' clearance or a movable bridge. For the foreseeable future it will be a bus connection from the Brightline Cocoa station when it materializes, to Port Canaveral.

Incidentally a rail connection for freight is being built to the Port Canaveral Freight Terminal. It is an extension of the NASA Railway from Cape Canaveral Space Force Station to the North side of Port Canaveral.

Notorious traffic on a highway with an available median on the southern side, I believe. For a while it seemed like follow-the-money, the city boosters wanted a nice train from BL for free, based on reading a pro-Convention editorial in the Sun Sentinel, but then the narrative seemed like BL looking for spare change in the couch by partnering with Sunrail as it had trouble with a bond offering and then interest rates went up. Or BL genuinely wants commuter rail connections. I'm speculating worse than a video blogger!
The segment between SunRail and I-Drive will be some sort of a public-private owned thing built in some sort of a PPP scheme with funding coming both from public and private sources as things stand at present. One thing is for sure that the original routing proposed by Brightline along SR-417 is out because the Covenant with Hunters Creek that released the easement for that road through that property prohibits such addition to the use of that easement. So either some variant of the current proposal will happen or there will be no extension from the Airport to Tampa. That is what has concentrated to attention of everyone in the fractious group who all want Tampa, but were originally unable to agree on what to do through Orlando. Now it is more of a funding issue only.
The two new infill stations do have adjacent low-level commuter platforms ready to go.
Hence my comment above regarding the relationship of these stations to the TriRail Northeast Corridor.
 
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I don't think Brightline should have to go into emergency "fairly often", but there were notable instances on day one for sure. As for negotiating with with FECR, my understanding is that relationship was preserved from way back when they were still essentially the same group (jis can chime in here). Certainly, a much better relationship than Amtrak has with its hosts. Regardless, running on a flat wheel is bad customer service (but can't be helped if the flat happened on that trip).
Everyone makes the mistake of thinking FECR is like CSX and Brightline like Amtrak and they are at loggerheads going through painful negotiations. That is not the case at all FECR actually does not have a viable business without Brightline. That is why the original FEC before all the divestitures and restructuring started this project. FECR makes a boat load of money in user fees from Brightline, the structure of which was set up before the ownership of the two separated and I am told that that agreement is ironclad in a very long term contract or some sort.

Currently the railroad in Florida - both the FECR and Brightline additions, are dispatched and controlled as far as day to day operation goes, by a company most appropriate called "The Dispatching Company". It is a separate private wholly owned subsidiary of Brightline and FECR. TDC is equally owned and controlled by the two and it makes operational decisions
I guess I'm in the minority here. Not a huge fan of Miles. His reporting is juvenile (certainly a market in the young adult genre of today), but most of his filming was out of focus. I think he actually called the security "Airport Security". After using the word "thingy" a few times, and getting dizzy by his fast panning and unstable shots, I got through it. Bravo to him for getting one of the first videos posted. Bummed it wasn't The Roaming Railfan (Note: he finally posted one last night).
I am not a huge fan of Miles either. Roaming Railfan is very good.
I don't think that's 100% the case. I want to say Brightline funded the original stations - WPB, FLL and MIA and I'm sure they put in a pretty penny for MCO. This would be expected because it's Brightline's project and not having stations would be useless. That was for the basics of their business model. It's too early in the AM and I'm not researching. Plenty of folks here are ready to pounce on my inaccuracies. That being said, I DID see that Aventura was paid for by taxpayers. But they approached Brightline - not the other way around. Aventura needs Brightline. Adding the stop slows Brightline down. I'm guessing the same for Boca. Note both of these are also going to be eventually used by Tri-Rail. The more stations between MCO and MIA, the slower the service gets. They need to start seriously looking at leap-frogging express trains. Even immediately, do ALL trains HAVE to stop at all stations? Can some bypass Boca and Aventura?
You are correct about WPB, FLL and MIA. They were entirely funded by Brightline/Fortress. Don;t know the details of the breakdown there.The basic building for the OIA/MCO station is owned and built by GOAA (Greater Orlando Aviation Authority). The interior of the OIA/MCO station is of course Brightline's. Brightline is a tenant in that building. Eventually SunRail will also be a tenant. There is space set aside for their station separate from Brightline's. They will have a two track single low level platform station to the East of the Brightline station.

You are also correct about Aventura and Boca. Fortunately Brightline is already doing some leapfrogging in their Orlando schedule.
 
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Notorious traffic on a highway with an available median on the southern side, I believe.
Actually, the median was unavailable for rail after CFX decided to build new lanes in it. As I understand it, Brightline was proposing to run along the northern edge of the road, which amplified the adjoining communities' objections, particularly where it would have run next to a school.
 
Fortunately Brightline is already doing some leapfrogging in their Orlando schedule.

I don't think I'd call it leapfrogging. 4 trains per day (8 after 10/24 on weekdays 7 on weekends) will skip Boca. It will reduce the time enroute by 5 minutes.

Here's a quick and dirty "timetable" before and after they double the number of trains on 10/24:

1695837629817.png

On another note, what is "Smart Saver" supposed to mean on the booking page? There are other fares that are also $79 that aren't marked "Smart Saver". I'm sure it's for something in the futures, but it's just weird.
 
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I don't think I'd call it leapfrogging. 4 trains per day (8 after 10/24 on weekdays 7 on weekends) will skip Boca. It will reduce the time enroute by 5 minutes.

Here's a quick and dirty "timetable" before and after they double the number of trains on 10/24:

View attachment 33997

On another note, what is "Smart Saver" supposed to mean on the booking page? There are other fares that are also $79 that aren't marked "Smart Saver". I'm sure it's for something in the futures, but it's just weird.
You're right. It is just skipping, not leapfrogging.
 
Brightline is partnering with a limo-type company at MCO, rather than uber/lyft. I can't think of an airline that's done that. BRIGHTLINE ANNOUNCES ORLANDO TRANSPORTATION PARTNERS | Brightline

On opening day of WPB - MCO, one commenter on youtube said there was a noticeably flat wheel. BL does need to emergency stop fairly often. Also noted was that BL has to negotiate with FECR, not always cordially. The proposed partnership with Sunrail also came up as contentious. These are all normal railroad things.
If this was who I think it was, we had a couple of hard slow-downs and I suggested the possibility. One was due to (no joking) cows on the tracks.

Fortunately, they eventually moo-ved...
 
They need to start seriously looking at leap-frogging express trains. Even immediately, do ALL trains HAVE to stop at all stations? Can some bypass Boca and Aventura?
This is pure conjecture of course, and I hope somebody will correct me if i am wrong.

But if that was me stepping up and giving the money of my taxpayers to BL so they can build a station in my community, then I would insist that the contract said something about BL pledging a minimal service level.
 
If this was who I think it was, we had a couple of hard slow-downs and I suggested the possibility. One was due to (no joking) cows on the tracks.

Fortunately, they eventually moo-ved...
sounds like a dairy thing to do.
 
This is pure conjecture of course, and I hope somebody will correct me if i am wrong.

But if that was me stepping up and giving the money of my taxpayers to BL so they can build a station in my community, then I would insist that the contract said something about BL pledging a minimal service level.
Indeed. According to the timetable, they are already skipping Boca 4 times per day, going to 8/day after the 24th. What I find interesting is that rather than skipping more on the weekend, they are actually including the first train of the day - and the weekend's first train is an hour earlier than on weekdays.

I wonder if @Anderson can find the passenger counts at each station?
 
IIRC, there were plans for Tri-Rail to run some local service along the FEC. If so, Brightline could arrange interline ticketing with them, and use them to feed them local traffic at some transfer station, and relieve Brightline from stopping as often perhaps, although I suppose they are committed to at least a minimal amount of service at the aforementioned stations.... 🤔
 
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