Body scanner test at DC Union Station

[JoeBas]

I'm not a person who would be in the know. But maybe there is a creditable threat. Especially with Mosel about to fall and different ISIS members with visa free transit. So there is no telling what could happen.

Stay frightened, my friend!

 

[JoeBas]

From a terrorist perspective an airport or train station is a soft target. You don't need to board a train or get on a plane. An incident on a train car would likely have much less impact and consequences than the same thing on a plane, and you can do a lot more damage in a crowded station or airport, why even bother getting on a train.

Not to mention that, if you want to destroy a train car, you can blow a bomb up in one.

If you want to destroy a WHOLE TRAIN, you just use the exact same bomb to blow up the bridge over some podunk middle-of-the-woods creek, or downtown trestle over some side-street or alley, right before the train gets to it.

Wonder which target is more tempting to any hypothetical, imaginary, train-targeting tewwowists. A train car, or a whole train? Hmmmm...

 

[CCC1007]

From a terrorist perspective an airport or train station is a soft target. You don't need to board a train or get on a plane. An incident on a train car would likely have much less impact and consequences than the same thing on a plane, and you can do a lot more damage in a crowded station or airport, why even bother getting on a train.

Not to mention that, if you want to destroy a train car, you can blow a bomb up in one.

If you want to destroy a WHOLE TRAIN, you just use the exact same bomb to blow up the bridge over some podunk middle-of-the-woods creek, or downtown trestle over some side-street or alley, right before the train gets to it.

Wonder which target is more tempting to any hypothetical, imaginary, train-targeting tewwowists. A train car, or a whole train? Hmmmm...

Are we forgetting about the thwarted attempt to blow the Niagara falls bridge?

 

[dlagrua]

If the government wants to implement invasive security at some of the railroad stations, they need to first tell us how they are going to protect 100,000 miles of track and all of the tiny stations along each LD route. This is ridiculous. They what about stations like CHI and NYP that serve millions of commuters every day.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

From a terrorist perspective an airport or train station is a soft target. You don't need to board a train or get on a plane. An incident on a train car would likely have much less impact and consequences than the same thing on a plane, and you can do a lot more damage in a crowded station or airport, why even bother getting on a train.

Not to mention that, if you want to destroy a train car, you can blow a bomb up in one.

If you want to destroy a WHOLE TRAIN, you just use the exact same bomb to blow up the bridge over some podunk middle-of-the-woods creek, or downtown trestle over some side-street or alley, right before the train gets to it.

Wonder which target is more tempting to any hypothetical, imaginary, train-targeting tewwowists. A train car, or a whole train? Hmmmm...

Are we forgetting about the thwarted attempt to blow the Niagara falls bridge?

During the War, the Defense Department quickly realized how vulnerable our rail network was to sabotage and quickly set out to guard vulnerable locations such as Horseshoe Curve or the control center of Grand Central Terminal. And, of course, a few years before we had the sabotage that derailed the City of San Francisco in an isolated area of the desert; so the real threat is to the infrastructure more so than the actual train.

 

[KmH]

And the 1995 Palo Verde derailment of the Sunset Limited.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_San_Francisco_(train)

 

[Thirdrail7]

For the record, unless I missing it, the article did not mention that Amtrak was participating in the test. Additionally, this statement makes me lead in another direction:

The three locations named in Evolv’s FCC application process upwards of 300,000 people every day, although Denver airport said its pilot project with Evolv had yet to be finalised. The test in LA is due to run in November for three or four days, and will involve thousands of members of the public.

Do we know that they will scan Amtrak passengers and not Washington Metro passengers? Is there something I'm missing that makes everyone think this test involves Amtrak instead of METRO or MARC passengers?

 

[neroden]

I'm not a person who would be in the know. But maybe there is a creditable threat.

Yes, there is a credible threat to US citizens and our liberty and way of life -- *from the TSA and the rest of the military-industrial complex*.

The current dangerous enemies of the Republic aren't external.

----

As others have said, the real way to threaten a train system is to the infrastructure, from track and bridges to signalling and dispatching. Attempts by terrorists (in Spain) to blow up trains have been remarkably... unimpressive. It's about like blowing up a bomb in a random street. Barely even makes the news.

Good idea to secure the dispatching office, though...

 

[PVD]

Keep in mind that that the original post is about a company getting permission to field test a new system. Nobody has actually bought these, or made any decisions where they might be installed. Over the years, of course, many of us have developed a major distrust of what we have been told about transportation security, and it fuels this "fear the worst scenario" speculation.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Coming soon to a Rail Station near you: Long Lines for "Security" Checkpoints while people in Blue Shirts stand around looking "Official", Taking off your Shoes and Belts,Taking Computers out of their Case, putting everything in Plastic Bins and Limited Amounts of Liquids for Personal Use!

Boy does this make me feel "Safer" about boarding Trains.

Of course Amtrak can Sell "Skip the Line" Boarding passes to Frequent and Wealthy Riders like the Airlines, just another source of EZ Revenue!

 

[Green Maned Lion]

From a terrorist perspective an airport or train station is a soft target. You don't need to board a train or get on a plane. An incident on a train car would likely have much less impact and consequences than the same thing on a plane, and you can do a lot more damage in a crowded station or airport, why even bother getting on a train.

Not to mention that, if you want to destroy a train car, you can blow a bomb up in one.

If you want to destroy a WHOLE TRAIN, you just use the exact same bomb to blow up the bridge over some podunk middle-of-the-woods creek, or downtown trestle over some side-street or alley, right before the train gets to it.

Wonder which target is more tempting to any hypothetical, imaginary, train-targeting tewwowists. A train car, or a whole train? Hmmmm...

Actually the real problem is to sabotage a train you don't need a bomb at all. Some tools readily available at any tool seller, and a knowledge of railroad systems and how to bypass them are really all that's required.

I would mention some easy ones, but I wouldn't want anyone getting any ideas.

 

[jis]

Of course Amtrak can Sell "Skip the Line" Boarding passes to Frequent and Wealthy Riders like the Airlines, just another source of EZ Revenue!

I don;t think there is any way available to skip the lines completely. You can skip only parts of the line and avoid having to take anything out of your bags or take off shoes, belts, pants etc. and avoid being subject to anything more revealing than a Magentometer gate (in most cases, unless your free massage lottery comes up that day )

 

[bretton88]

For the record, unless I missing it, the article did not mention that Amtrak was participating in the test. Additionally, this statement makes me lead in another direction:

The three locations named in Evolv’s FCC application process upwards of 300,000 people every day, although Denver airport said its pilot project with Evolv had yet to be finalised. The test in LA is due to run in November for three or four days, and will involve thousands of members of the public.

Do we know that they will scan Amtrak passengers and not Washington Metro passengers? Is there something I'm missing that makes everyone think this test involves Amtrak instead of METRO or MARC passengers?

This might be it. My thought is it's a passive scanner like surveillance cameras are. Installed in major entry points like subway entrances and there's still normal flow of traffic through the scanner and people may not even know it's there.The key in that article is people will be about to go through them at normal walking speed.

 

[CelticWhisper]

For the record, unless I missing it, the article did not mention that Amtrak was participating in the test. Additionally, this statement makes me lead in another direction:

The three locations named in Evolv’s FCC application process upwards of 300,000 people every day, although Denver airport said its pilot project with Evolv had yet to be finalised. The test in LA is due to run in November for three or four days, and will involve thousands of members of the public.

Do we know that they will scan Amtrak passengers and not Washington Metro passengers? Is there something I'm missing that makes everyone think this test involves Amtrak instead of METRO or MARC passengers?

This might be it. My thought is it's a passive scanner like surveillance cameras are. Installed in major entry points like subway entrances and there's still normal flow of traffic through the scanner and people may not even know it's there.

The pictures I've seen make it look, at a minimum, like the anti-theft gates many retail stores have near their exits. It also seems to require someone staffing the machine with a tablet, laptop or other device to view the output and the "alert zone" that the devices use to highlight oogie-boogie dangerous scary objects like cigarette lighters, Swiss Army knives, and keychain figurines.

My #1 question goes back to what happens when these things alert on a false hit, which we know they wil eventually do. If it results in walking through again or opening a jacket flap, I can roll my eyes and deal with it. If it's a hand-held metal-detection wand, that's...basically tolerable. Physical contact (especially under threat of arrest for not rolling over and saying "Please, sir, I'd like some more") a la airports is an absolute deal-breaker and results in a farewell to Amtrak until and unless the machines go bye-bye and unsecured travel returns.

 

[bretton88]

For the record, unless I missing it, the article did not mention that Amtrak was participating in the test. Additionally, this statement makes me lead in another direction:

The three locations named in Evolv’s FCC application process upwards of 300,000 people every day, although Denver airport said its pilot project with Evolv had yet to be finalised. The test in LA is due to run in November for three or four days, and will involve thousands of members of the public.

Do we know that they will scan Amtrak passengers and not Washington Metro passengers? Is there something I'm missing that makes everyone think this test involves Amtrak instead of METRO or MARC passengers?

This might be it. My thought is it's a passive scanner like surveillance cameras are. Installed in major entry points like subway entrances and there's still normal flow of traffic through the scanner and people may not even know it's there.

The pictures I've seen make it look, at a minimum, like the anti-theft gates many retail stores have near their exits. It also seems to require someone staffing the machine with a tablet, laptop or other device to view the output and the "alert zone" that the devices use to highlight oogie-boogie dangerous scary objects like cigarette lighters, Swiss Army knives, and keychain figurines.
My #1 question goes back to what happens when these things alert on a false hit, which we know they wil eventually do. If it results in walking through again or opening a jacket flap, I can roll my eyes and deal with it. If it's a hand-held metal-detection wand, that's...basically tolerable. Physical contact (especially under threat of arrest for not rolling over and saying "Please, sir, I'd like some more") a la airports is an absolute deal-breaker and results in a farewell to Amtrak until and unless the machines go bye-bye and unsecured travel returns.

Again back to Third Rails point. Amtrak may have nothing to do with this. DC union station is owned by USDOT so it would be a natural fit for a pilot program like this. Sounds like they are trying it in an airport, public transit environment, and a train station to see how it works in different environments.

 

[CelticWhisper]

For the record, unless I missing it, the article did not mention that Amtrak was participating in the test. Additionally, this statement makes me lead in another direction:

The three locations named in Evolv’s FCC application process upwards of 300,000 people every day, although Denver airport said its pilot project with Evolv had yet to be finalised. The test in LA is due to run in November for three or four days, and will involve thousands of members of the public.

Do we know that they will scan Amtrak passengers and not Washington Metro passengers? Is there something I'm missing that makes everyone think this test involves Amtrak instead of METRO or MARC passengers?

This might be it. My thought is it's a passive scanner like surveillance cameras are. Installed in major entry points like subway entrances and there's still normal flow of traffic through the scanner and people may not even know it's there.

The pictures I've seen make it look, at a minimum, like the anti-theft gates many retail stores have near their exits. It also seems to require someone staffing the machine with a tablet, laptop or other device to view the output and the "alert zone" that the devices use to highlight oogie-boogie dangerous scary objects like cigarette lighters, Swiss Army knives, and keychain figurines.
My #1 question goes back to what happens when these things alert on a false hit, which we know they wil eventually do. If it results in walking through again or opening a jacket flap, I can roll my eyes and deal with it. If it's a hand-held metal-detection wand, that's...basically tolerable. Physical contact (especially under threat of arrest for not rolling over and saying "Please, sir, I'd like some more") a la airports is an absolute deal-breaker and results in a farewell to Amtrak until and unless the machines go bye-bye and unsecured travel returns.

Again back to Third Rails point. Amtrak may have nothing to do with this. DC union station is owned by USDOT so it would be a natural fit for a pilot program like this. Sounds like they are trying it in an airport, public transit environment, and a train station to see how it works in different environments.

I really hope you're right.

I wonder if writing to NRPC/Amtrak customer care and/or APD would yield any information about what, if any, plans are in place?

 

[jis]

I am almost certain they won't. In my experience they prefer to keep you guessing on matters of security for as long as they can.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I am almost certain they won't. In my experience they prefer to keep you guessing on matters of security for as long as they can.

Or tell you one thing and then randomly change their minds at the last minute for whatever reason.

In March, the Transportation Security Administration had announced a decision to allow passengers to once again carry small, folding blades up to 2.36 inches (6 centimeters) in length, such as small pocket knives and foil cutters for corkscrews, on board commercial airplanes. These items had been prohibited following the 9/11 terrorist attacks. But yesterday the TSA announced that it was rescinding the change. Also to have been permitted once again on board were toy baseball bats, lacrosse and hockey sticks, billiard cues, ski poles and up to two golf clubs per passenger. Like the blades, all these items must now continue to be packed in checked luggage, shipped ahead or left at home, or they’ll be surrendered at the airport.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewbender/2013/06/06/tsa-cancels-decision-allowing-knives-on-planes/

 

[CelticWhisper]

So it's been a while since I posted this. Has anyone seen hide or tail of these things in LA, DC, or Denver where they were supposed to be tested? Bi-annual Providence trip is this year and the jury's still out on whether to go by road or rail.

 

[Ryan]

Not in DC.

 

[JoeBas]

Not in DC.

Not in DC SO FAR*...

*that you know of.

 

[John Bobinyec]

The scanners were "hot" last year but now that we're going to build "the wall", I expect it'll suck up any available money for such things.

jb

 

[Ryan]

Not in DC.

Not in DC SO FAR*...

*that you know of.

Given that I am through there nearly every day, and the article in the OP has a picture of the scanners, no, they definitely haven't been used.

 

[Hal]

Not in DC.

Not in DC SO FAR*...

*that you know of.

Given that I am through there nearly every day, and the article in the OP has a picture of the scanners, no, they definitely haven't been used.

The TSA does shows up in DC from time to time with different unrecognizable stuff to try out. Never saw the scanners in the picture but they have brought other stuff. Usually they set up in the Acela area. It could be they want to impress congress critters.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CelticWhisper]

Not in DC.

Not in DC SO FAR*...

*that you know of.

Given that I am through there nearly every day, and the article in the OP has a picture of the scanners, no, they definitely haven't been used.

The TSA does shows up in DC from time to time with different unrecognizable stuff to try out. Never saw the scanners in the picture but they have brought other stuff. Usually they set up in the Acela area. It could be they want to impress congress critters.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do you mean the ClubAcela lounge or the ticket counter with the Acela logo on the wall (next to the regular Amtrak ticket counter)?