Body scanner test at DC Union Station

[seat38a]

Well I have global entry. Hopefully there will give us the same pass as they do at the airports.

 

[JoeBas]

Someone wake me up when these test machines are installed. Heck, I can't even think of anywhere that you COULD install them at WUS and there not be a way around them.

 

[jis]

Walls! We will become a nation of building walls everywhere. WUS would be no exception. Walls with well guarded small doors through them

 

[Bob Dylan]

Walls! We will become a nation of building walls everywhere. WUS would be no exception. Walls with well guarded small doors through them

And Mexico will pay for them!

 

[CelticWhisper]

Someone wake me up when these test machines are installed. Heck, I can't even think of anywhere that you COULD install them at WUS and there not be a way around them.

I had a similar thought, though CUS is a little trickier (and my home station) since there's at least one potential choke point that is the hallway from the Great Hall to the old ticketing counters.

Also, and I have no idea what FRA regs state about this kind of thing, but what about out on the platform or between the boarding area and the platform? With those stupid tensabarrier things to prevent people walking around them?

 

[jis]

Call me a conspiracy theorist if you want, but I wouldn't doubt that it's pressure from tsa or homeland insecurity that's keeping Amtrak from assigning coach seats. If they go to pre-assigned seats, people can board anywhere, Alexandria, New Carrolton, Rockville, Back Bay, Route 128, but by keeping the herd-mentality, people will be far more likely to use these larger stations where they can pull this crap, in order to stand a chance at getting a decent seat.

Yeah. Calling you a conspiracy theorist, and that too with a large tinfoil hat on. If Amtrak and TSA could think so far ahead about such a convoluted scheme, they would not be bumbling along as they are. This is about one of the silliest conspiracies I heard in a long time and is worth at least a chuckle.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Trump TV is going to need stories when it Launches on Nov. 9th and who better to report Conspiracies than that bunch of lunatics?

 

[JoeBas]

Someone wake me up when these test machines are installed. Heck, I can't even think of anywhere that you COULD install them at WUS and there not be a way around them.

I had a similar thought, though CUS is a little trickier (and my home station) since there's at least one potential choke point that is the hallway from the Great Hall to the old ticketing counters.

Also, and I have no idea what FRA regs state about this kind of thing, but what about out on the platform or between the boarding area and the platform? With those stupid tensabarrier things to prevent people walking around them?

I can't speak to CUS, as I've never been there. All I can say is that if they try to implement scope & grope on Amtrak, and there's no reasonable way around it, that will end my patronage of the service.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

We can laugh and joke all we want but I have little doubt that routine security screening is coming to Amtrak. That's not to say that the implementation will make any logical sense or accomplish anything tangible or even reasonably definable. All the folks who ran away from the TSA will turn tail and run away yet again. Once people start running away from their problems they rarely stop to fight again. A few people will stand up but not anywhere near enough to prevent more screening or roll it back again.

 

[CelticWhisper]

Someone wake me up when these test machines are installed. Heck, I can't even think of anywhere that you COULD install them at WUS and there not be a way around them.

I had a similar thought, though CUS is a little trickier (and my home station) since there's at least one potential choke point that is the hallway from the Great Hall to the old ticketing counters.

Also, and I have no idea what FRA regs state about this kind of thing, but what about out on the platform or between the boarding area and the platform? With those stupid tensabarrier things to prevent people walking around them?

I can't speak to CUS, as I've never been there. All I can say is that if they try to implement scope & grope on Amtrak, and there's no reasonable way around it, that will end my patronage of the service.

Likewise - going back to my point about what happens if/when these things false-alarm? If it's APD running them, I'm somewhat confident that there won't be Freedom Fondles as APD (ostensibly) understands probable cause and risk assessment, but if it's going to be smurf-clerks, then I have no doubt that they'll try the same crap they pull at airports. In which case, bye-bye Amtrak and hello Subaru.

 

[Long Train Runnin']

There are Metro stations in other parts of the world that do have scanners. But they are used only when the security profile goes beyond some threshold that is not shared publicly. I. e. you suddenly find yourself going through the scanner instead of bypassing it, for no apparent reason. And yes, they are very heavily used stations too.

Yeah its amazing to see this work in places like Beijing. You can't even breathe on the train its so crowded, and some how all those people managed to quickly have their bags x rayed. It adds maybe at best 10 seconds to the process.

 

[A Voice]

Trump TV is going to need stories when it Launches on Nov. 9th and who better to report Conspiracies than that bunch of lunatics?

Does this thread really have to get turned into a political discussion?

by keeping the herd-mentality, people will be far more likely to use these larger stations where they can pull this crap, in order to stand a chance at getting a decent seat.

Uh, no.

Seats are assigned upon boarding on some trains anyway, which would defeat the purpose of your conspiracy theory.

Not to mention that passengers hundreds of miles from a major terminal aren't really going to have that option. Someone will evil intent probably isn't so worried about where they'll be sitting regardless, and they can still board from a small, unmanned station.

Uh, you just defeated your own point. The seat assignment is AFTER passing through any checkpoint, and people will be jockeying for a good assignment. Additionally, the scanners aren't being setup at stations hundreds of miles away, they're only being setup in the major terminals.

Not at all. I don't mean to continue feeding the conspiracy fantasies, but the point was that with assigned seating at boarding there is no need to "jockey" for position, as it wouldn't do any good. Any particular seat might get assigned to the first person in line, the 57th, or the very last.

 

[CelticWhisper]

Trump TV is going to need stories when it Launches on Nov. 9th and who better to report Conspiracies than that bunch of lunatics?

Does this thread really have to get turned into a political discussion?

I'd really rather it didn't, as those tend to get closed and I want this to remain open for the topic at hand. Just hearing news of a limited-scope prototype test has me a walking bundle of nerves and I rely on this forum for perspective.

 

[A Voice]

We can laugh and joke all we want but I have little doubt that routine security screening is coming to Amtrak.

Not on a widespread basis. it is just much too impractical and expensive to set up security screening at hundreds of stations across the nation - some of them unmanned and which see just six trains a week.

You could perhaps try to implement screening at stations on the Northeast Corridor and other routes with heavy patronage and many daily departures, which is perhaps the greater possibility, but again it would be pointless as many of those trains began their journeys from off-corridor locations.

The bigger question, though, is why would anyone seek to implement security now? This isn't the aftermath of the September 2001 terrorist attacks or any other major event which would prompt significantly greater caution. Sure, there is always a chance some nutjob could try something, but how has that changed in the last fifteen years? Why should we now need security if we didn't before?

 

[tricia]

We can laugh and joke all we want but I have little doubt that routine security screening is coming to Amtrak.

Not on a widespread basis. it is just much too impractical and expensive to set up security screening at hundreds of stations across the nation - some of them unmanned and which see just six trains a week.

You could perhaps try to implement screening at stations on the Northeast Corridor and other routes with heavy patronage and many daily departures, which is perhaps the greater possibility, but again it would be pointless as many of those trains began their journeys from off-corridor locations.

The bigger question, though, is why would anyone seek to implement security now? This isn't the aftermath of the September 2001 terrorist attacks or any other major event which would prompt significantly greater caution. Sure, there is always a chance some nutjob could try something, but how has that changed in the last fifteen years? Why should we now need security if we didn't before?

Because now someone has a new security gizmo to sell. Whether it's pointless in this context or not, someone will make money selling this technology. And the rest of us will pay for it, both in tax dollars and in lost freedom to move unchallenged by officaldom through public spaces.

 

[MattW]

Call me a conspiracy theorist if you want, but I wouldn't doubt that it's pressure from tsa or homeland insecurity that's keeping Amtrak from assigning coach seats. If they go to pre-assigned seats, people can board anywhere, Alexandria, New Carrolton, Rockville, Back Bay, Route 128, but by keeping the herd-mentality, people will be far more likely to use these larger stations where they can pull this crap, in order to stand a chance at getting a decent seat.

Yeah. Calling you a conspiracy theorist, and that too with a large tinfoil hat on. If Amtrak and TSA could think so far ahead about such a convoluted scheme, they would not be bumbling along as they are. This is about one of the silliest conspiracies I heard in a long time and is worth at least a chuckle.

For what it's worth, I got the same reactions back in early '02 when I would say things like "they're going to want to see through our clothes before boarding a plane soon."

 

[jis]

You would not have got that reaction from me even in 2002

 

[Riverviewer]

Oh joy! Now I can get groped by TSA thugs at an Amtrak station, after "anomalies" are found by the body scanner, the same way the ones at Tampa International Airport find "anomalies" (resulting in the TSA's groping me in public) EVERY TIME that I fly from there.

Every damn time.

 

[Seaboard92]

I'm not a person who would be in the know. But maybe there is a creditable threat. Especially with Mosel about to fall and different ISIS members with visa free transit. So there is no telling what could happen.

 

[PVD]

From a terrorist perspective an airport or train station is a soft target. You don't need to board a train or get on a plane. An incident on a train car would likely have much less impact and consequences than the same thing on a plane, and you can do a lot more damage in a crowded station or airport, why even bother getting on a train.

 

[SarahZ]

From a terrorist perspective an airport or train station is a soft target. You don't need to board a train or get on a plane. An incident on a train car would likely have much less impact and consequences than the same thing on a plane, and you can do a lot more damage in a crowded station or airport, why even bother getting on a train.

And you can avoid the security at big stations like Washington DC and Chicago by simply getting on at the next stop. So really, this is completely pointless security theater.

 

[Seaboard92]

And let's be really honest the lines TSA will be having are a far better target. It's a soft target, usually with a low roof, and a cluster of people.

Freshmen year I took a counter terrorism class and we discussed different attacks.

 

[Carolina Special]

The concourse at DC Union Station during rush hour would make a better target than most trains. The only real response to that is to place scanners at all entrances to the station similar to sports stadiums.

Of course the merchants will hate that idea, as it will hurt store traffic.

 

[A Voice]

The concourse at DC Union Station during rush hour would make a better target than most trains. The only real response to that is to place scanners at all entrances to the station similar to sports stadiums.

Of course the merchants will hate that idea, as it will hurt store traffic.

Let's say scanners were placed at entrances, the masses of people standing around out in the open waiting to go through security just became your new tempting target. Where does it end; Again, pointless.

 

[JoeBas]

We can laugh and joke all we want but I have little doubt that routine security screening is coming to Amtrak.

Not on a widespread basis. it is just much too impractical and expensive to set up security screening at hundreds of stations across the nation - some of them unmanned and which see just six trains a week.

You could perhaps try to implement screening at stations on the Northeast Corridor and other routes with heavy patronage and many daily departures, which is perhaps the greater possibility, but again it would be pointless as many of those trains began their journeys from off-corridor locations.

The bigger question, though, is why would anyone seek to implement security now? This isn't the aftermath of the September 2001 terrorist attacks or any other major event which would prompt significantly greater caution. Sure, there is always a chance some nutjob could try something, but how has that changed in the last fifteen years? Why should we now need security if we didn't before?

Because now someone has a new security gizmo to sell. Whether it's pointless in this context or not, someone will make money selling this technology. And the rest of us will pay for it, both in tax dollars and in lost freedom to move unchallenged by officaldom through public spaces.

Bingo. Because someone who's connected to someone in DC has money to be made, favors to be paid, and a government to fleece.