Blackout Times & Peak Rates

[newlatidude]

Here is some very disappointing news from the AGR representative on FlyerTalk. The "no more blackout dates" turns out not to be entirely true. Some seats will be blacked out at peak times. Others will only be available to Select Plus and Select Executive during peak times. Oh and also you may have to pay more points during peak times even when there is availability.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/26073734-post328.html

Reward Travel Availability during peak dates/times: While we have removed blackout date restrictions on reward travel, you may find limited availability on peak travel dates or times and it is possible that not every seat will be available for redemption. When redeeming points for trips during peak travel dates and times, some itineraries may be available only to our Select Plus and Select Executive members. For best results, we recommend that members log in to their Amtrak Guest Rewards account before searching for available itineraries. Depending on availability during peak travel times, you may find premium pricing on some departures. The peak departure may be available at a higher point cost or not available for redemption unless the member has Select Plus or Select Executive status. Members with Select Plus or Select Executive status, if not logged in, may see availability at a higher price or no availability, but if they log in they may find they are able to book the itinerary at regular point cost or at a premium.

 

[Ryan]

That's a very airlinery thing to do. Not cool to not disclose that until now.

 

[PRR 60]

That's a very airlinery thing to do. Not cool to not disclose that until now.

Not cool at all. Not even 24 hours into the new program, and we already find out it is not quite as advertised. To quote a very insightful poster at Flyertalk , pretty shoddy behavior.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

That's a very airlinery thing to do. Not cool to not disclose that until now.

Not cool at all. Not even 24 hours into the new program, and we already find out it is not quite as advertised. To quote a very insightful poster at Flyertalk , pretty shoddy behavior.

Had to go look to see who this insightful poser was - and I was right in my guess.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Surprised? Gotcha!

And the hits just keep on coming in the New and Unimproved AGR2.0 that, as the roll out blurb said, will Enhance your Amtrak Travel Experience!

 

[printman2000]

Yup, this is very disappointing to find out now. I am very surprised they would not tell us beforehand. My travel plans would have been significantly changed had I known this earlier.

 

[Anderson]

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/26075493-post340.html

With due respect to Anthony, there's a difference between being stuck as the unfortunate exponent of a bad policy (which was his status before now) and being, quite frankly, complicit in a material misleading of the traveling public. I could make a bunch of snarky remarks right now (they'll likely come), but at this point I'm going to say that, even as an SE member, I'm rather annoyed at best.

 

[jebr]

I posted this in one of the other threads, but it's a terrible policy that is AGR trying to have their cake (having points tied to the dollar value of the ticket) and eat it too (additional surcharge only for points redemptions on "peak days.")

It's terrible and it makes me wonder if anything else is hiding in the implementation of the new AGR that we don't know about yet.

 

[tonys96]

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/26075493-post340.html

With due respect to Anthony, there's a difference between being stuck as the unfortunate exponent of a bad policy (which was his status before now) and being, quite frankly, complicit in a material misleading of the traveling public. I could make a bunch of snarky remarks right now (they'll likely come), but at this point I'm going to say that, even as an SE member, I'm rather annoyed at best.

I do not think it fair to single out any particular person, this seems to be a corporate decision, and Anthony's job is just to articulate what he is told to articulate, when he is told to do it.

Still seems like a bait and switch by AGR.

 

[tricia]

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/26075493-post340.html

With due respect to Anthony, there's a difference between being stuck as the unfortunate exponent of a bad policy (which was his status before now) and being, quite frankly, complicit in a material misleading of the traveling public. I could make a bunch of snarky remarks right now (they'll likely come), but at this point I'm going to say that, even as an SE member, I'm rather annoyed at best.

I do not think it fair to single out any particular person, this seems to be a corporate decision, and Anthony's job is just to articulate what he is told to articulate, when he is told to do it.

Still seems like a bait and switch by AGR.

If Anthony's an honest person, he must be hating his job right now. (No disrespect intended to Anthony. Contempt certainly intended for any employer that requires employees to lie.)

Bait and switch indeed.

 

[Ryan]

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/26075493-post340.html

With due respect to Anthony, there's a difference between being stuck as the unfortunate exponent of a bad policy (which was his status before now) and being, quite frankly, complicit in a material misleading of the traveling public. I could make a bunch of snarky remarks right now (they'll likely come), but at this point I'm going to say that, even as an SE member, I'm rather annoyed at best.

I do not think it fair to single out any particular person, this seems to be a corporate decision, and Anthony's job is just to articulate what he is told to articulate, when he is told to do it.

Still seems like a bait and switch by AGR.

Seconded. That's a pretty cheap shot, from a moderator no less.

 

[jis]

A fervent plea ... Please take personal bickering, specially one indulged in from a position of power even more, to pm please. Let us just discuss the inappropriateness of the process and communication used without ascribing Anthony as the specific source without any proof of such, specially about one who is a very good friend of many on this board (he is the founder of this board and this board would not even be using the word Amtrak in its name without Anthony's efforts), and who may know a little bit more of the truth than many of us.

 

[printman2000]

A fervent plea ... Please take personal bickering, specially one indulged in from a position of power even more, to pm please. Let us just discuss the inappropriateness of the process and communication used without ascribing Anthony as the specific source without any proof of such, specially about one who is a very good friend of many on this board (he is the founder of this board and this board would not even be using the word Amtrak in its name without Anthony's efforts), and who may know a little bit more of the truth than many of us.

Like

 

[Devil's Advocate]

A fervent plea ... Please take personal bickering, specially one indulged in from a position of power even more, to pm please. Let us just discuss the inappropriateness of the process and communication used without ascribing Anthony as the specific source without any proof of such, specially about one who is a very good friend of many on this board (he is the founder of this board and this board would not even be using the word Amtrak in its name without Anthony's efforts), and who may know a little bit more of the truth than many of us.

I agree. If we're going to blame Antony for anything we should probably keep it limited to decisions that were his alone to make. Such as handing the forum over to an invasive spam host with similar warnings as the current blackout date fiasco. Sorry for not defending our dear leader from every possible criticism but I'm still rather salty over that decision.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I agree with jis and DA on this topic!

And as others have said,( including me last year when AGR2.0 intro was rolled out) this is clearly Bait and Switch on AGR/Amtrak's part.( lets remember AGR is part of Amtrak and Anthony has many bosses who have been known to make moronic and short sided decisions!) YMMV

 

[jis]

A fervent plea ... Please take personal bickering, specially one indulged in from a position of power even more, to pm please. Let us just discuss the inappropriateness of the process and communication used without ascribing Anthony as the specific source without any proof of such, specially about one who is a very good friend of many on this board (he is the founder of this board and this board would not even be using the word Amtrak in its name without Anthony's efforts), and who may know a little bit more of the truth than many of us.

I agree. If we're going to blame Antony for anything we should probably keep it limited to decisions that were his alone to make. Such as handing the forum over to an invasive spam host with similar warnings as the current blackout date fiasco. Sorry for not defending our dear leader from every possible criticism but I'm still rather salty over that decision.

We should probably let sleeping dogs lay where they are, but now with 20/20 hindsight, it seems the simplest and cleanest thing to do back then would probably have been simply to shut the whole thing (AU) down and be done with it, and completely avoid all the carping that goes on. But all that is much water under the bridge now.

 

[calwatch]

Back on topic, it seems that the different multiplier is double the number of points (i.e., 69 points/dollar instead of 34.5).

For instance, an end to end, Chicago to DC trip:

3/24: $98 seat, $264 roomette, $498 bedroom
3,381 pts seat, 9,108 pt roomette, 34,362 pt bedroom

3/25: $98 seat, $325 roomette, $400 bedroom
3,381 pts seat, 22,425 pt roomette, 13,800 pt bedroom

This is totally inconsistent with the intent of AGR 2.0 and is internally non consistent. So for arbitrary dates, buckets, or trips, the number of points doubles? If days were announced PRIOR to AGR 2.0 where it would be double points to redeem (or points are worth half their value, depending on how you look at it), then that would be fine. But "no blackouts" also implies that if you can pay for a ticket with cash, you can do it for points, and at a consistent ratio (otherwise, why put a fare calculator in the first place???) Obviously peak travel will cost more than non peak travel, but to mess with the ratio is wholly uncalled for.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

No it just show that double points occur when there is limited availability, both actually, and historically.

AGR 2.0 is what ever Amtrak wants. The people have no say other than take it or leave it.

 

[jis]

It is just more like what airlines have been doing for years. I think this should have been clarified in the transition documentation.

As for it being inconsistent with AGR's goals (a) I don't exactly know what AGR's goals are other than making Acelas competitive with airlines, and (b) even if I knew it would possibly take bit of mental gymnastics to come to the conclusion that it is inconsistent or even the opposite conclusion for that matter.

In some sense it stands to reason that you would want to maximize cash paid trips on heavily traveled days. The question is how far would you go to have that outcome while not shutting out reward travel entirely.

Yeah, I don't like it as it potentially affects me. But I can see the business logic behind it.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

A fervent plea ... Please take personal bickering, specially one indulged in from a position of power even more, to pm please. Let us just discuss the inappropriateness of the process and communication used without ascribing Anthony as the specific source without any proof of such, specially about one who is a very good friend of many on this board (he is the founder of this board and this board would not even be using the word Amtrak in its name without Anthony's efforts), and who may know a little bit more of the truth than many of us.

I agree. If we're going to blame Antony for anything we should probably keep it limited to decisions that were his alone to make. Such as handing the forum over to an invasive spam host with similar warnings as the current blackout date fiasco. Sorry for not defending our dear leader from every possible criticism but I'm still rather salty over that decision.

We should probably let sleeping dogs lay where they are, but now with 20/20 hindsight, it seems the simplest and cleanest thing to do back then would probably have been simply to shut the whole thing down and be done with it, and completely avoid all the abuse that is heaped on by some. But all that is much water under the bridge now.

Abuse? Please. Anthony hasn't been a child for many years now so why are we still treating him like one? How old does he have to get before we can take off the kid gloves and treat him like an adult? Using Amtrak in the name of a fan forum is legitimate fair use and much of the content from Anthony's tenure is outdated anyway. That being said I don't hold AGR's fuzzy math and arbitrary rules against Anthony. Regardless of whatever role he played it's really no different than any other monkey points program. Anyone who puts their faith in a loyalty program is destined for disappointment. Earn and burn is the law of the loyalty land. They don't call our consumer economy "buyer beware" for nothing.

 

[jis]

Anyway coming back to the subject at hand, I am actually surprised that I did not expect this to happen. No I don't like it, but it does have some business logic to it. No wonder many airlines have practiced this sort of thing for a while now. But I am aware of none that layers this on top of fine grained fare value based points requirement.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

For many years airline loyalty rules remained surprisingly relaxed and bonuses were being routinely increased. It was a great time for customers willing to learn the ropes and manage the minutia. Then airlines started buying out their competitors, reducing flights, retiring aircraft, and carefully consolidating around a handful of massive fortress hubs. That allowed them to crack down on benefits for all but their most prolific customers. Amtrak has so little direct competition that AGR members have little if any power to influence anything directly. It's either Amtrak's way or the highway at this point. Which is fine. I've already seen most of mileage I wanted to experience so Amtrak can charge as much as they want and I can either fly, drive, or stay home as the case may be. I'm a huge fan of passenger rail but I'm not so blind to the appeal that I'll put up with unlimited increases in cost in exchange for perpetually shrinking services. A relatively short Amtrak connection here or there is enough for me. The rest of my travel money is better spent on new passenger rail experiences in other countries for similar money.

 

[Anderson]

A fervent plea ... Please take personal bickering, specially one indulged in from a position of power even more, to pm please. Let us just discuss the inappropriateness of the process and communication used without ascribing Anthony as the specific source without any proof of such, specially about one who is a very good friend of many on this board (he is the founder of this board and this board would not even be using the word Amtrak in its name without Anthony's efforts), and who may know a little bit more of the truth than many of us.

I agree. If we're going to blame Antony for anything we should probably keep it limited to decisions that were his alone to make. Such as handing the forum over to an invasive spam host with similar warnings as the current blackout date fiasco. Sorry for not defending our dear leader from every possible criticism but I'm still rather salty over that decision.

We should probably let sleeping dogs lay where they are, but now with 20/20 hindsight, it seems the simplest and cleanest thing to do back then would probably have been simply to shut the whole thing down and be done with it, and completely avoid all the abuse that is heaped on by some. But all that is much water under the bridge now.

The worst part is that I'm to a point where I wouldn't entirely disagree with doing this. I know Amtrak can't really do that for practical reasons, but it feels more merciful to put a good program down while it's still good, in an orderly and dignified way, than to have it staggering along as a monstrosity. If Amtrak offered a significant fraction of AGR points as points on the airline of my choosing, as of now I'd be inclined to take it.

 

[CHamilton]

Ah, to heck with loyalty programs. Bring back Green Stamps!

 

[jis]

I was talking of shutting down AU, not AGR. That was in response to DA's mention about the selection of a, what turned out to be IMHO, not very customer sensitive or competent hosting service.

The Amtrak program has just become more like airline programs, with an interesting twist or two. I am ambivalent about it and since it does not have any lifetime status thing there is little incentive to try to collect TQP anymore, since from my vantage point the privileges of Amtrak status are not that useful any more.

Then again I have hardly ever been a prime Amtrak customer, so my absence will hardly be noticed.