Be careful when taking pictures of Amtrak trains!

[Sam Damon]

If I may.......  "somewhat" in regard to the action of taking pictures, etc. But the point of my posting is to illustrate the "fine line" a store, railroad, or any company which provides public area for whatever use or service they are selling! My posting really has nothing (or much at least) to do with taking pictures per se. It was meant to be on a more general note.

Understood. As someone who makes a living of sorts from the news business though, I get touchy when First Amendment issues come up. We're really not disagreeing here at all.

Now taking pictures, gathering info, or other reasons, are on a case by case basis. Someone taking pictures in the station, on the train, outside the train when at a short layover, whatever, is no big deal (to me at least)! Now if they are taking close up pictures of the wheels, couplers, brakes, etc. I will report them in order to have someone in proper authority talk to them. We had a guy about six months ago over on the "Silver Service" who was taking pictures of the air conditioning vents and other stuff. When pulled of the train by Amtrak and local police, it was found out later he was on the FBI and Homeland Security's most wanted list! So it pays for us (employees, passengers, and railfans) to be vigilant!

Gosh! People in the USA using common sense! What a concept!

Seriously, though, I'm glad to hear of Amtrak employees displaying what I would consider reasonable vigilance as far as "homeland security" issues are concerned. Only the most anal of model railroad fans would take pictures of air conditioning vents; clearly someone needed called. I'm glad they were.

If only the RRs would display a similar level of common sense for railroad enthusiasts.

 

[Yerry]

We had a guy about six months ago over on the "Silver Service" who was taking pictures of the air conditioning vents and other stuff. When pulled of the train by Amtrak and local police, it was found out later he was on the FBI and Homeland Security's most wanted list!

Reeeealllyyyy. . . . .

When, where, and who?

 

[Sam Damon]

This is what I was talking about, when I mentioned I had heard bad things about NOPD:

Law enforcement efforts to contain the emergency left by Katrina slipped into chaos in parts of New Orleans Tuesday -- with some police officers and firefighters even joining looters in picking stores clean.At the Wal-Mart on Tchoupitoulas Street, an initial effort to hand out provisions to stranded citizens quickly disintegrated into mass looting. Authorities at the scene said bedlam erupted after the giveaway was announced over the radio.

Here's the original article from the NO Times-Picayune.

 

[tp49]

We could have a whole topic on the NOPD and their transgressions over the years. Still I wonder what reaction will be once all the facts in this case come out.

 

[IceColdMintJulep]

I think alot of the problem here is training and common sense. If someone is taking a picture of the train they are riding on, they should be left alone. Looking at this logically, why would any terrorist take photos of the train itself, they can get that information anywhere. Terrorists aren't stupid, if they want pictures, they will do it from a distance with a telephoto lens, not by exposing themselves close up. It's another example of paranoid people in this country given the power to do something about it by the patriot act. Honestly, I don't know why a terrorist would hit an Amtrak train anyway, there are too many other easy targets in this country with a higher value. There needs to be a SOP for this such as running a background check and if it's negative, leave them alone.

 

[railfangns]

Are you banned from riding amtrak? Usually if you get removed from the train your name will go into a data base and you wont be able to make reservations or ride on amtrak. I have been lucky here so far no one has questioned me about photographing trains so i take my little camera and click away.Also did you get a refund on your sleeper and rail fare?And did amtrak put you up in a hotel in New Orleans?

Got some great pictures of the crescent coming through town!

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

This appeared in the "Trains.com Newswire." Thought y'all might be interested in reading. We'll see what happens I guess. OBS...

Amtrak arrests Sunset Limited passenger for trespassing

NEW ORLEANS - Amtrak’s no trespassing policy came into sharp focus last month when a passenger on the eastbound Sunset Limited got off the train in New Orleans Saturday, August 19 and walked up the platform to where a locomotive was idling. He wanted to take a photograph of it. Stopped by an Amtrak police officer, he was arrested, booked and spent the night in a city jail. The train departed without him.

Rest of storyhere.

Membership is required I believe...

 

[Sam Damon]

Sounds like Trains magazine has confirmed this.

This is a case the First Amendment types need to take on. I can understand, however, why they are wary of doing so.

The bottom line is this: Amtrak gets another black eye. If you're a railroad employee reading this, please use discretion when calling the police in. 95% of the time, a simple, "You're on railroad property, and the railroad police frown on trespassers" will suffice. The other five percent of the time, call The Bull.

 

[daveyb99]

Why dont you stop crying about it, get a copy of the Officers report and arrest affidavit, and lets hear the other side. Post it here so we call can enjoy.

 

[daveyb99]

The bottom line is this: Amtrak gets another black eye. If you're a railroad employee reading this, please use discretion when calling the police in. 95% of the time, a simple, "You're on railroad property, and the railroad police frown on trespassers" will suffice. The other five percent of the time, call The Bull.

No necessarily true. Maybe NOL has had a bad problem with tresspassers and the staff there told to contact the police no matter what the circumstances. Zero Tolerance works, except when it works on YOU.

Having said that (and having a long law enforcement background), it is true there is some discrection in an arrest. But as I posted previous, lets see the report before we all jump to the aid of an "innocent person".

As for photos, as an Officer, we get photographed ALOT. We even had a guy we were arresting using his camera phone to video record us (till he got the silver bracelet treatment). As long as someone is LEGALLY on a piece of property, they can almost do what they want. Cross over to private property, and you are breaking the law - despite what you think the First Amendment might say.

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

If you're a railroad employee reading this, please use discretion when calling the police in. 95% of the time, a simple, "You're on railroad property, and the railroad police frown on trespassers" will suffice. The other five percent of the time, call The Bull.

Mr Damon, one thing we must keep in mind regarding this situation is the fact it occured on the date of August 19th, 2005. Just the last month prior to this, the railroads were elevated to "orange alert" from "yellow" following the situation in London on the seventh of July and following around the twenty first or so. "Orange Alert" means extreme heightened security! It is one level away from "Red!" When we are under "orange alert" we are to watch closely everyone's behavior on the train, on railroad property (whether our own or not), and to follow the guidelines which were set up by the "Homeland Security" dept, and the indidual railroad police depts. One of those is as employees within our employee watch program, we are required to report anyone out of place in an orange alert regardless of what they are doing. Our supervisors also remind us to be mindful of our own safety regarding these types of situations! In other words, most all of us railroad employees will use good judgement and either inform the tresspassing individual and allow them to move on before reporting them! But not many of us (myself included) are willing to put our jobs on the line by not doing as requested by the company when it comes to our security! The company is making the futile attempt where it can to comply with the Feds! Again said, there is more to this than what "Trains" is reporting.

Personally I feel that Mr James Bourgeois (the passenger in question here) should have remained on the train during his travel until he reached his final destination! If he needed to get off, he should have stayed in the station area where he would have never been bothered as far as I am concerned! Personally, he ought to suck it up, be a man, and just let this go and learn from the experience rather than to keep pushing the point and making himself miserable! He probably won't do this, but that is all on him. All I know is, I know my job! And I know how to do it, and the situation probably would be the same had it happened here on the East Coast, and if I had happened to be one of the employees involved! This is all I will post on this subject. He needs to get over it if you ask me! OBS...

 

[Sam Damon]

OBS, I respect the fact you enjoy your job (and presumably the paycheck ), so I certainly would not fault you for reporting individuals in the situation described if that's what you're supposed to do. Given the supreme flakiness of those who would fly commercial jetliners into perfectly good buildings, I suppose we must maintain that level of vigilance.

OTOH, bear in mind the US after WW II hung people at Nuernberg who were "only following orders."

Cross over to private property, and you are breaking the law - despite what you think the First Amendment might say.

daveyb99, as a Law Enforcement officer of some sort, you're absolutely correct. What you've missed is this: first, the man in question was apparently confused over what was private, and what was public property. According to him, when he asked, the police response was to toss him in jail.

That's like hunting deer with an AT-4.

Certainly there is the Amtrak Police side of this story. Unfortunately for us in the railroad enthusiast community, this is a classic, "he said, she said" story. No, I'm not about to call Amtrak PR in an effort to track down the police report. There's just too much confusion in New Orleans. It's quite possible the arrest records are washed away. Given that confusion level in New Orleans, I really don't think we're ever going to hear the truth.

The other thing you seem to have lost track of, along with OBS, is how dependent Amtrak is upon the good graces of the railroad enthusiast community. Talk as much as you like about how the railroads are not run for the fans. That's fine. Talk as much you like about arresting people for trespassing. That's legit. But keep in mind there are railroad enthusiasts out there, and there exists a pool of respect in government for what they've done to preserve railroading heritage. Some of them are in high places. Some of them may even have the power to hire and fire. Some of them may have political connections. And government can legislate railroads into oblivion, as we are finding out in the current Amtrak debate.

The bottom line is this: just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should do something. This applies to both the law enforcement crowd, and the railroad enthusiasts.

 

[railfangns]

If amtrak does not want people photographing trains,equipment or stations then they should have signs posted stating that fact.Also in staffed stations such as New orleans they could announce every so often due to homeland security concerns amtrak requests passengers please refrain from photographing trains buildings or any railroad equipment.Violators will be subject to arrest and their cameras will be conficated.Thank you for your co operation.Believe me people would think twice before they click that camera or use their camcorder. lots of places ban cameras now including my job site.Its sad its come to this.

Oh what happened to this guy! was he fined or did he spend some time in the pokey or was the case dismissed or has a trial been held yet?

Let me know!

 

[AmtrakFan]

Group,

When I was along the NEC this was in Aug I didn't get approached by a Police Officer once when I was railfanning. I would strongly advise to stay on Public Property like a Platfrom, A Park, Sidewalk. Now that I see the Station Layout this guy was legitmantly tresspassing.

 

[Sam Damon]

lots of places ban cameras now including my job site.Its sad its come to this.

I have one word to mention here: cameraphones.

Imagine this scenerio: Joe Bigschott whips out his cameraphone on the platform to get a quick snap before jumping on an Acela train at say, 30th Street Station in Philadelphia.

You think the Amtrak cops are gonna bust him? Not likely.

You think the Amtrak cops are gonna take everyone's cameraphone? Again, not likely.

The people who really get screwed in this deal are the enthusiasts. I'm talking "prosumers" here, to borrow some market-speak from the A/V gear world. The Bull is gonna pound on the guy with expensive DSLR + lenses, simply because it's assumed he's a pro. In many cases, this type might sell the odd picture, but they sure ain't trying to make a living at it.

For those of us trying to make a living at it, this stuff is a monumental PITA. It all has to do with attempting to control the news. For example, the last time I tried to get a yard pass at a local NS yard to shoot for the file (and mind you, at the time I was in a news operation for a Big Three network affiliate) NS's PR people said, "No, we don't give out yard passes for that."

Wanna know how much sympathy they're gonna get from that operation when they have a screwup, as they inevitably will?

 

[haolerider]

Off topic somewhat , but I was at the Tour Chamionship in Atlanta and witnessed someone trying to take a picture of Sergio Garcia on the 9th green - with a camera phone. Of course, all the tickets stated No Phone & No Cameras. This one was confiscated by one of the Marshalls and turned over to Security, who told the fan that he could claim it after the day's events.

"No Pictures Please"

 

[railfangns]

Well taking a golf players photograph while he was in the middle of a shot could have been disasterious for the golfer.He could miss the stroke all together or missed an easy putt that cost him a bogey or worse.The golf course is not the place for flash photography.Too much$$$$ involved for the players.