Amtrak's New "Fresh Choices" Dining on CL & LSL

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bratkinson said:
However, I suspect that it's not just the food driving passengers away. I suspect that a significant number of already booked New York section passengers told Amtrak to refund their money when advised they would be on their own to get to/from Grand Central Terminal AND they'd have to ride in NEC spaced COACH seating to Albany (about 14" LESS legroom than Amfleet 2 LD coach seating). Maybe, just maybe, Amtrak has added extra business class cars to the Empire Service trains? I have my doubts they figured that one out, though. And what about the passengers riding Amtrak from south of NYC that now have to get to GCT to ride coach? If I were coming from PHL, WAS, even MIA ticketed to the LSL, I'd tell Amtrak to cancel the entire trip!
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Oh, it's worse than that. Passengers booked in sleeper from Chicago to New York were not rebooked in sleeper from Chicago to Albany and coach from Albany to NY -- they were rebooked in coach all the way from Chicago to New York. With less than an hour's notice. Witnessed this last week. Sleepers weren't full. Deliberate maliciousness.
 
Ryan said:
My iMac has 39 open tabs at the moment.

Two of them featured the now-removed versions of the menu.
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This is what it looked like.

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The lack of full ingredients lists is still an ADA violation -- though if we're lucky the packages might have them -- but the bigger problem is the lack of breakfast options. The salads are OK for lunch and dinner, but the breakfast situation on that menu is flatly unacceptable, since it's inedible for a large number of customers. Seriously, Amtrak has better selections than this menu *on its own system* in the Downeaster cafe. Inability to look across the street at the train departing from North Station speaks to either gross incompetence or maliciousness.
 
neroden said:
bratkinson said:
However, I suspect that it's not just the food driving passengers away. I suspect that a significant number of already booked New York section passengers told Amtrak to refund their money when advised they would be on their own to get to/from Grand Central Terminal AND they'd have to ride in NEC spaced COACH seating to Albany (about 14" LESS legroom than Amfleet 2 LD coach seating). Maybe, just maybe, Amtrak has added extra business class cars to the Empire Service trains? I have my doubts they figured that one out, though. And what about the passengers riding Amtrak from south of NYC that now have to get to GCT to ride coach? If I were coming from PHL, WAS, even MIA ticketed to the LSL, I'd tell Amtrak to cancel the entire trip!
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Oh, it's worse than that. Passengers booked in sleeper from Chicago to New York were not rebooked in sleeper from Chicago to Albany and coach from Albany to NY -- they were rebooked in coach all the way from Chicago to New York. With less than an hour's notice. Witnessed this last week. Sleepers weren't full. Deliberate maliciousness.
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Seriously? Why the hell would they do that? Who in their right mind would even think of rebooking passengers that way?
 
The ADA as written does not address the issues stemming from the fact that certain ingredients are concealed in food and it does not address the issue stemming from the prevalence of cross-contamination.

They have recognized that food allergies can constitute a disability, in some instances this can require accommodation, there are FDA requirements to list major food allergens and contamination possibilities, but that is not a solution for all situations, since lots of people have less common allergies.

I'd be interested in any new or different information, I stand on my previously stated opinion that it shouldn't require a law (even though it often does) to do what is reasonable.
 
chrsjrcj said:
I think it has been made pretty clear that Amtrak cares less and less about the customer experience on the LD trains.
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There's a difference between caring less and less about customer experience, and doing inherently moronic things like rebooking sleeper passengers in coach the whole way, for no reason whatsoever. Why on earth would they stick sleeper passengers in coach the whole way? Why? And I imagine those people didn't get a refund either. This is just overwhelmingly infuriating.
 
It appears more and more like in order to rid Amtrak of its past "sins", so much institutional memory has been let go that often the new inexperienced decision makers now seem to have little idea about even what points are connected by a train about which they are making decisions. This is clearly a failure of management with an unmanaged over-enthusiasm for change. That is a core fault of Anderson in setting the tone of his organization. Maybe they will recover from it, at least one hopes so, or maybe they won't, and crash and burn as a result. There have been a few too many completely off the wall statements made by the new operations guy to suggest that he has no clue about the operations he is supposed to manage, I am afraid.
 
At an airline like Delta, with point to point hub and spoke scheduling, everything is cold and calculating. With Amtrak each route has a name and a personality. Many have a FB page with a long list of followers. For Anderson, this is the opposite from Delta, where deleting or changing a route met little or not resistance. Anderson was probably not prepared for the major resistance when he announced the Dining Car changes and later the SWC changes. We may find him backtracking some in order to regroup and rethink his plans for Amtrak.
 
Lonestar648 said:
At an airline like Delta, with point to point hub and spoke scheduling, everything is cold and calculating. With Amtrak each route has a name and a personality. Many have a FB page with a long list of followers. For Anderson, this is the opposite from Delta, where deleting or changing a route met little or not resistance. Anderson was probably not prepared for the major resistance when he announced the Dining Car changes and later the SWC changes. We may find him backtracking some in order to regroup and rethink his plans for Amtrak.
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We hope!
 
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Major corporations have more influence over politicians and will move them in a direction that supports their businesses. Amtrak is way more likely to be forced to make a politically motivated choice regardless of whether it is the best option available.
 
The menus are still down. Looks like we might have to wait until PVD rides the Lake Shore to find out what they're actually serving.
 
Im willing to believe that the actual menus will be the same as the ones that were taken down. Why were they taken down? Maybe the VP of customer service got tired of the hate mail?
 
chrsjrcj said:
Im willing to believe that the actual menus will be the same as the ones that were taken down. Why were they taken down? Maybe the VP of customer service got tired of the hate mail?
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I highly doubt that they would have taken it down because the made up creature known as the "VP of customer experience" got tired of the letters. The way I see it, there was probably just some slight correction needed, regarding the ingredients or something. However, the menus have been down for a while now, so if it were just a typo I would think they could have gotten it fixed at this point.
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The posted menus were examples of what Amtrak would be offering. It's possible that what will actually be offered will be different. So the example menus were taken down. It's possible that Amtrak will be experimenting with different items to see what people like and what people hate. Of course as most people think the whole idea is stupid, so maybe Amtrak is hiding the actual product. We'll see on June 1.
 
MikefromCrete said:
The posted menus were examples of what Amtrak would be offering. It's possible that what will actually be offered will be different. So the example menus were taken down. It's possible that Amtrak will be experimenting with different items to see what people like and what people hate. Of course as most people think the whole idea is stupid, so maybe Amtrak is hiding the actual product. We'll see on June 1.
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I will break ranks and say that was an official menu. It has been removed internally as well.

Perhaps it will change. After all, it has been said that this is an experiment. Perhaps the offerings will change....I hope.
 
I think management has taken quite the hint from this. One thing to bear in mind is that Anderson is from a background where a significant shuffle in service, with few exceptions, doesn't trigger outright rebellion from the customer base...but then again, very few of Delta's flights are on trips that involve 10+ hours onboard.
 
VentureForth said:
Why didn't they just try this "experiment" with EITHER the LSL -or- the CL? Why hit ALL East Coast to Chicago routes with this nonsense?

Maybe it's to increase ridership on the Cardinal!
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Because this wasn't an "experiment" - it's a permanent change to cut costs on a couple short routes, so as to meet the F&B mandate. The removal of the diner on the Star was originally an experiment (though I think we all knew how it was going to end), and since it was such a drastic change, they only did it on one route. "Contemporary dining" is different. It's a whole new way of offering food service to one night trains that seem not to need a full service diner. If it was just to a test to see if something like it could be executed in the future, then they could have made it a temporary change with a set end date on only one of the trains.
 
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I get the impression that the only "experiment" part of this is what the menu is going to be, not the delivery method. Maybe Thirdrail has heard something more definitive to validate or refute this impression.
 
One reason to pick these two routes is that they more or less fit the service model praised by Anderson in Chicago last year: business traveler gets on a train in the evening, arrives fresh and rested in the morning, having traveled between two major business destinations. There's room to debate how closely the LSL and CL fit that model, but that doesn't mean they can't be brought closer to it.

The new meal plan, at least as described, is a better fit with business travellers, who tend to be younger than the typical land cruiser. The food is healthier, easier and more convenient to get, the product is more consistent and predictable and, I expect, so will be the service level. Being able to eat when and where you want is a benefit to a business traveller who has better things to do with his or her time than be herded about by indifferent Amtrak employees.

There's a core belief on this site that the new menu and service plan is a downgrade. It might turn out to be that for some. But don't assume that applies to everyone. There will also be people who consider it to be an upgrade, and I'll wager that those people look a lot like the target market Anderson is aiming at.
 
I think this change stays. It will be how and what in refining of this new Dining concept. Since these trains only served two meals each way they were easy targets. Other long distance trains, especially those with two nights, eliminating the DC staff would be very difficult.

The SM and the Crescent are the only eastern LD untouched. (LSL and CL contemporary, SS no DC everyone pays, Cardinal no DC Cafe seating, CONO no chef).
 
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