Amtrak Siemens Charger locomotive (SC44, ALC42, ALC42E) (2015 - 1Q 2024)

[lordsigma]

I know the Pennsylvanian, Cardinal, Crescent, LSL, as well as Valley Flyers are still using P42s. Some Northeast Regional trains use them as well. These are just a few routes off of the top of my head that I can think of that still use P42s.

I know the Cardinal and Crescent still have them, but sometimes mixed in with chargers.

The ALC42s AFAIK still are not approved for ACSES. As a result they cannot lead on the Lake Shore Limited or some of these northeast state corridor routes like the Valley Flyers. The Lake Shore could very plausibly be the last long distance route that sees them unless the approval is right around the corner. It isn’t quite clear yet to what extent the diesel ALCs will be used on routes that will eventually see the hybrid variant and Airo trainsets. Some others may see them as they are running on the Palmetto and have made appearances on the Carolinian as well which are both slated to get the trainsets. They may try to have them make their way around to most places in the interests of getting mechanical staff and operating crews trained on them since the hybrid locomotives in the Airo sets will be very similar. One corridor route that will almost certainly also eventually get them is the Heartland Flyer which is being considered to be covered by the long distance order for re-equipping as opposed to the Airos.

 

[jis]

It just occurred to me that it could be kind of interesting to see an ex HHP-8 Cabbage on the Heartland Flyer since they will probably try no yo assign two locomotives to it if they can. That of course is contingent upon at least some of those HHP-8 Cabbages being equipped with I-ETMS. Of course it is almost certain that the power unit will be an ALC-42 as time moves along.

 

[Acela150]

The ALC42s AFAIK still are not approved for ACSES.

This is spot on. Not really sure of a timeframe where this will happen. They have been attempting to test them for ACSES, Cab Signals, & ATC functions. Not really sure how that's going though.

 

[lordsigma]

This is spot on. Not really sure of a timeframe where this will happen. They have been attempting to test them for ACSES, Cab Signals, & ATC functions. Not really sure how that's going though.

They were approved for Cab Signals/ATC earlier this year.

 

[Acela150]

They were approved for Cab Signals/ATC earlier this year.

But getting the three of them to work together is another thing. Add ITMS into the contest.

 

[Thirdrail7]

It just occurred to me that it could be kind of interesting to see an ex HHP-8 Cabbage on the Heartland Flyer since they will probably try no yo assign two locomotives to it if they can. That of course is contingent upon at least some of those HHP-8 Cabbages being equipped with I-ETMS. Of course it is almost certain that the power unit will be an ALC-42 as time moves along.

You won't see the HHP-8s that far west. You probably won't really see them outside them Northeast. They may operate on the Springfield line, though.

This is spot on. Not really sure of a timeframe where this will happen. They have been attempting to test them for ACSES, Cab Signals, & ATC functions. Not really sure how that's going though.

It's moving along.

 

[chadamfleetrailfan]

You won't see the HHP-8s that far west. You probably won't really see them outside them Northeast. They may operate on the Springfield line, though.




It's moving along.

I remember talk a while back about the HHP-8s as a replacement for the metroliner cab cars for the Valley Flyers (on the Springfield like you said).

It still would be cool/interesting to see Siemens chargers on routes up that way. Either ALCs or SCs would be interesting.

 

[daybeers]

So, Keystones and Hartford Line/Valley Flyer trains? Downeaster potentially?

Can't wait to see one on the two car Hartford Line trains I wonder what the weight of the HHP-8 will be without the motor.

 

[AmtrakMaineiac]

So, Keystones and Hartford Line/Valley Flyer trains? Downeaster potentially?

Can't wait to see one on the two car Hartford Line trains I wonder what the weight of the HHP-8 will be without the motor.

I suspect most of the weight in an electric loco is the transformer, especially one designed to work at 25 Hz. They might even need to add weight such as concrete blocks so that the loco would track correctly. I believe they had to do that for the F40 cabbages.

 

[cirdan]

There is going to be that someone that'll bring this up, so let me end it right there. Amtrak is not a commuter railroad and has far more long distance/intercity routes then Via Rail does. So the equipment wear Amtrak does on equipment is a lot.

I would have thought a commuter railroad would be a more grueling and hard wearing environment than an LD train, due to the frequent starting and stopping cycles.

 

[Agent]

Yesterday, AMTK 348 and 349 were ferried from the Siemens factory to Oakland. Sky Rider filmed this light power move at Hercules, California.

 

[Agent]

Amtrak #6(17) with AMTK 348 and AMTK 349 running about twenty minutes late east of Ottumwa, Iowa this morning.

 

[Acela150]

A train with three chargers, 2 on the east end, 1 on the west end of the train. Made its way towards Sunnyside this afternoon for testing on Metro North.

 

[daybeers]

 

[chadamfleetrailfan]

It was so cool seeing my favorite charger 301 (Day 1 livery) leading again! (Even though it was on the test train from the post above)

 

[lordsigma]

The Charger locomotives on the commuter railroads, Brightline, and VIA Rail are not dropping like flies nor shop queens to anything the extent that Amtrak's are.

Responding to this point on another thread on the appropriate thread.

Correlation does not always imply causation. Do you have the data to back the conclusion up that the problem is completely Amtrak? All of the various Chargers have differences - including between the SC44s and ALC42s (the SC44s of which of course are not Amtrak's.) Before we can make a final conclusion that the problem is Amtrak themselves, one needs more data other than anecdotal periodic postings about delays on Facebook groups and Trainorders. What is the actual failure rate? What are the failure modes? While we can engage in informed speculation based on anecdotal reports about "breakdowns due to the cold", most of us don't have access to the information and statistics about what the breakdowns are, what's breaking etc. I'd also add the other railroads you mentioned do not have as obsessive a railfan base following every little delay or breakdown that occurs in the manner that Amtrak's overnight long distance trains do generating an entire thread on TO every time an overnighter is delayed so I also think one needs to be cautious in proclaiming that the commuter railroads, Brightline, and VIA rail are not having any problems. One good source on technical data is some materials put out by the next generation equipment committee - of which I am planning to attend this year. These hint at some components that have been failure prone in the SC44s and Amtrak/the states are planning to make some changes to the units in the first overhaul cycle to try to address some of the reliability issues. And some of these parts that have shown to fail frequently have a long lead time based on NGEC reports - and so they spend a lot of time in Chicago mechanical.

I'd also not lump the SC44 and ALC42s together and conclude that they are both suffering from the exact same problems and failure modes. The ALC42s are much newer and incorporated design changes from the SC44s and some of the problems of the last couple years with those particular units could very well be infancy related failures that can be addressed with smaller tweaks such as in the software.

None of this is to say that we shouldn't observe and speculate as that by definition is what we all do. But I don't think there's sufficient information about the problems to conclusively direct all the blame on Charger related issues to Amtrak.

 

[jis]

We need to have better information about the classification of failure modes.

For example, I understand that at least on the Silver service once they decided to operate the ALCs as the second unit failure rates went down dramatically, which suggests that many failures were probably involving operation of PTC. That is not to say there aren't significant other failure modes too. But one difference between the Amtrak units and the other units is the wide variety of PTC implementations that the Amtrak units have to work with given the myriad of freight operator's tracks they have to operate on.

 

[GDRRiley]

I can try and get some information from my contacts in California to see what the issues are. I know Pacific Surfliner has had far more loco issues recently than in Northern California
So far the best info I've got is issues with the engine control and emissions system being overly strict and throwing an error at the first minor change

 

[Acela150]

This week Ivy City has been Charger city. Lots of them there.

 

[Paniolo Man]

I had been under the impression that the California Zephyr was supposed to have chargers a year ago. Quite a few routes have them now, where does CZ stand in line?

I know I'll start missing the P42s the moment they disappear from this route, but I'm antsy to see these ALC-42s actually working.

Plus the current delivery pace of 2 a month seems slow.

 

[lordsigma]

I had been under the impression that the California Zephyr was supposed to have chargers a year ago. Quite a few routes have them now, where does CZ stand in line?

I know I'll start missing the P42s the moment they disappear from this route, but I'm antsy to see these ALC-42s actually working.

Plus the current delivery pace of 2 a month seems slow.

They were talking about doing that when ATC and ACSES certification were still held up. I think they changed directions when they got ATC certified. They started making the rounds in the east instead. They will get to the zephyr eventually.

 

[Agent]

Amtrak #6(05) left California yesterday with new ALC-42s AMTK 350 and 351. This Zephry was caught at Davis, California by Adam Ghimenti.



Marcel Hall also caught it at Sparks, Nevada.

 

[Agent]

I caught Amtrak #6(05) with 351 and 350 running two hours and twenty minutes late out of Ottumwa, Iowa today. The train was running about one hour and seventeen minutes late, but it stopped for about an hour just east of Osceola.

 

[John Santos]

The ALC42's weren't leading. They were most likely just being dead-headed east to be used on other trains. They've been delivering them from the factory in Sacramento by attaching them between the lead P42s on the Zephyr. I don't know if they are supplying power (as an operational test) or just being pulled along with the rest of the train.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

The ALC42's weren't leading. They were most likely just being dead-headed east to be used on other trains. They've been delivering them from the factory in Sacramento by attaching them between the lead P42s on the Zephyr. I don't know if they are supplying power (as an operational test) or just being pulled along with the rest of the train.

They have to go to the Wilmington shops for tweaking before they can go into service.