Amtrak Express Box Cars

[printman2000]

I spotted this car in the local BNSF yard here in Amarillo (while chasing the SWC on its recent reroute)...

Is this really an old Amtrak Express box car? Why do you suppose it is out and about? I thought the freights hated these cars due to a derailing issue?

 

[Trogdor]

The MHCs had the derailing issue. The boxcars ran fine, from what I recall.

 

[the_traveler]

I don't think that's an old Amtrak Express box car. The marking would say "AMTX" (IIRC) - not "CMHX" - and all I've seen are painted "Amtrak Express" on the side. They are all "in storage" - kind of like the SL-East is "temporarily suspended"

- I have seen long lines of them in the LA yards!

 

[jis]

I don't think that's an old Amtrak Express box car. The marking would say "AMTX" (IIRC) - not "CMHX" - and all I've seen are painted "Amtrak Express" on the side. They are all "in storage" - kind of like the SL-East is "temporarily suspended"

- I have seen long lines of them in the LA yards!

There are three long lines of them in Harrisburg, in the area of State interlocking.

 

[printman2000]

I don't think that's an old Amtrak Express box car. The marking would say "AMTX" (IIRC) - not "CMHX" - and all I've seen are painted "Amtrak Express" on the side. They are all "in storage" - kind of like the SL-East is "temporarily suspended"

- I have seen long lines of them in the LA yards!

I assumed if it were sold, the markings would have changed. Not sure what CMHX is, but I assume the markings of the new company that owns it. You really cannot get past the paint job. That is all Amtrak.

 

[printman2000]

CMHX apparently stands for CarMath Incorporated. Here is a page I found that lists many of their boxcars as former Amtrak...

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rslist.aspx?id=CMHX&cid=2

 

[printman2000]

I looked at my orginal pic and got a number. Here is the exact car...

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPicture.aspx?id=199131

 

[Gratt]

Is there a reason these box cars have not replaced the old heritage baggage cars?

Is there something inside those old bag cars that makes them difficult to replace?

 

[printman2000]

These cars do not have access doors on the end so the crew would not be able to get inside without getting off the train, then climbing into the car through the cargo door. This would add a lot more time at stops as well as not being as safe for the crews.

 

[Guest]

These cars do not have access doors on the end so the crew would not be able to get inside without getting off the train, then climbing into the car through the cargo door. This would add a lot more time at stops as well as not being as safe for the crews.

It shouldn't be too hard to cut holes in the ends and make a simple door. It doesn't even need a proper vestibule, just a platform to walk across the gap.

 

[Trogdor]

The boxcars are also not HEP-equipped, so they could not operate at the front of the train like they currently do. They might be too tall to fit into the tunnels on the NEC.

I would imagine there would be a dozen other engineering reasons why these couldn't be easily modified for baggage car service.

To put it another way, if it were simple enough to replace a baggage car with a boxcar, then Amtrak would have done so rather than purchasing a bunch of baggage cars based on the Viewliner design.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

This brings up an interesting point. The HEP and physical pass-through issues would presumably be addressed by putting these on the tail end just like they used to do in the past, in which case I don't see why they couldn't become baggage cars today. Even though Amtrak staff will enter the baggage car to have a smoke break it's not like they'll go get your bag for you at any station that doesn't already have a baggage handler assigned to it. From the customer's perspective these cars may as well only have the side door. The only other thing I can think of off the top of my head is maximum speed rating but since they used to be on Amtrak in the past you'd figure they could do Amtrak speeds without issue. Quite an interesting question.

 

[printman2000]

This brings up an interesting point. The HEP and physical pass-through issues would presumably be addressed by putting these on the tail end just like they used to do in the past, in which case I don't see why they couldn't become baggage cars today. Even though Amtrak staff will enter the baggage car to have a smoke break it's not like they'll go get your bag for you at any station that doesn't already have a baggage handler assigned to it. From the customer's perspective these cars may as well only have the side door. The only other thing I can think of off the top of my head is maximum speed rating but since they used to be on Amtrak in the past you'd figure they could do Amtrak speeds without issue. Quite an interesting question.

Station baggage handlers do not usually enter the baggage car (maybe at endpoints they do). It is usually the conductor or assistant conductor. They would have to wait for the train to come to a complete stop, deboard, walk to the front (or rear in your idea), climb up into the car, find the lugguage, set it off, climb down, walk back to the closest car and board. Where with a baggage car, they can actually enter before ever arriving at the station and have the luggage ready to go. Conductors already have a lot to do at station stops, they do not want to add all that stop time to each stop.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Sounds like maybe this should be handled by someone other than the conductor. Maybe Amtrak should bring back the freight cars again. It's not like Union Pacific is treating Amtrak well without the cars, so maybe it's time to give the freight subsidy angle another try. If baggage is too cumbersome then perhaps we could speed it up by having folks get their bags right as they come off the train. Build a ramp or chute right into the car. No need to mess those with silly old wagon carts. Just show your claim ticket, get your bag and go. Maybe it won't work but I don't think it's completely impossible like some folks apparently do. I see various staff bumming around during station stops. Put those folks to work on baggage duty!

 

[battalion51]

One of the things most folks don't realize is that the Conductor or AC is typically in the baggage car a bit more than just at the station stops. Those piles of bags don't sort themselves. So a tthe big stops they'll typically try to drop that station's bags and then load the oncoming, but every now and then you have to do it in reverse. At a station of decent size you better believe the Conductor is going to be in there for an extra 10-15 minutes after the train departs to sort everything out and get the bags straight.

IIRC the boxcars that Amtrak owned were excess height cars which means they definitely couldn't be on any train bound for New York and potentially Boston. The cars were also limited to a maximum speed permitted of 90 MPH. Additionally since the cars don't have comm jacks you would have to put our pal FRED on every train these cars were on.

 

[alanh]

In other words, the cars would require substantial modifications to work, and would still have limitations. And they'd still not be new. How old are they, anyway?

 

[Superliner]

What type of freight did Amtrak move with these box cars? I suppose it varied. I recall seeing them on the tail end of trains. Were they meant to be a replacement for the MHC's?

 

[battalion51]

They moved a variety of items since they were part of the Express pool. I'm sure mail and other parcels were in there on a regular basis. IIRC there were also some reefer boxcars that were used to move perishable items, particularly on the Empire Builder...

 

[rrdude]

NONE of these cars are designed for, nor would it make sense to retrofit them for, "baggage service". The plain fact that they do not a vestibule/door on either end is a FULL STOP.

And, if you have ever tired to open the side door on a regular box car, well, it can be easy, but it can also require several men if it is the slightest bit bent or contorted.

And, it's not as simple as just "cutting a hole" in the end. I've been on some tourist railways that have done something like that, and they are a death-trap at 15-20 miles an hour, let alone 90mph. Throw in the fact that only one of the three or four types (Box Cars, Material Handling Cars, Express-Refer-Cars, Roadrailers) discussed had HEP, and that seals it.

I'm not enuff of an equipment buff to know if the box cars, Express Cars, and Roadrailers had tight-lock couplers (I'm guessing they did) but the MHC did.

 

[Guest]

To put it another way, if it were simple enough to replace a baggage car with a boxcar, then Amtrak would have done so rather than purchasing a bunch of baggage cars based on the Viewliner design.

When I think of Amtrak I don't think of a culture of creative problem solving, I think of a culture of apathetic acceptance of the situation. I really doubt that they presented the question of how hard would it be to turn a boxcar into a baggage car to an engineer. Millions are spent on feasibility studies of train services that never get rolling, but have they ever tasked a couple of engineers with figure out how much it would cost to convert a boxcar?

 

[Trogdor]

but have they ever tasked a couple of engineers with figure out how much it would cost to convert a boxcar?

Seriously? Several people on here have just said, off the top of their heads, why converting these boxcars into baggage cars would be infeasible. What makes you think that Amtrak 1) didn't consider such, and 2) didn't dismiss the idea just as quickly (if not moreso) as it was on this forum?

 

[George Harris]

To put it another way, if it were simple enough to replace a baggage car with a boxcar, then Amtrak would have done so rather than purchasing a bunch of baggage cars based on the Viewliner design.

When I think of Amtrak I don't think of a culture of creative problem solving, I think of a culture of apathetic acceptance of the situation. I really doubt that they presented the question of how hard would it be to turn a boxcar into a baggage car to an engineer. Millions are spent on feasibility studies of train services that never get rolling, but have they ever tasked a couple of engineers with figure out how much it would cost to convert a boxcar?

Well, mr guest, if you have solutions, don't be shy to let the people know that have the problem.

Newsflash: Most of these "Millions spent on feasibility studies" are politically driven by politicians who want to look like they are doing something when they actually are not, and not instigated by Amtrak itself. Amtrak has done better than most people are willing to give it credit for in making do with minimal funding and being made a political football by everyone with grandiose ideas that have nothing behind them.

 

[Ispolkom]

And, if you have ever tired to open the side door on a regular box car, well, it can be easy, but it can also require several men if it is the slightest bit bent or contorted.

Heck, I've seen it take 10-15 minutes with crowbars and sledgehammers to open a side door on an actual baggage car on a icy morning in Minot. The sooner those new baggage cars are on line, the better.

EDIT: George Harris, as usual, is correct. A study is the bone thrown to a legislator who doesn't get the program he wants. It's just a fig leaf so that the legislator can say that something, anything, is being done, not a process to actually get a result. Studies are done by consultants and filed and never looked at. Nice work if you can get it.

 

[rrdude]

And, if you have ever tired to open the side door on a regular box car, well, it can be easy, but it can also require several men if it is the slightest bit bent or contorted.

Heck, I've seen it take 10-15 minutes with crowbars and sledgehammers to open a side door on an actual baggage car on a icy morning in Minot. The sooner those new baggage cars are on line, the better.

EDIT: George Harris, as usual, is correct. A study is the bone thrown to a legislator who doesn't get the program he wants. It's just a fig leaf so that the legislator can say that something, anything, is being done, not a process to actually get a result. Studies are done by consultants and filed and never looked at. Nice work if you can get it.

And it would sicken anyone who actually looked at it, how MANY MILLIONS of dollars, if not a BILLION, were spent on various rail studies that went absolutely nowhere, except to the consultants pockets over the last few decades. As was said, "nice work if you can get it".

 

[gregoryla]

The boxcars are also not HEP-equipped, so they could not operate at the front of the train like they currently do. They might be too tall to fit into the tunnels on the NEC.

I would imagine there would be a dozen other engineering reasons why these couldn't be easily modified for baggage car service.

To put it another way, if it were simple enough to replace a baggage car with a boxcar, then Amtrak would have done so rather than purchasing a bunch of baggage cars based on the Viewliner design.

Sorry, but what is HEP?