Amtrak employees cop an attitude!!

[Peter G.]

About a week and a half ago I was traveling from New York Penn Station to Washington Union Station on company business. As it happens the company I work for graciously sprung for roundtrip First Class Acela Express tickets because they realized that it was cheaper then getting an Airline flight last minute and quicker then driving. My train #2155 was scheduled to depart NYP at 11:00am and arrive in WAS at 1:55pm so I left my home on Long Island around 8:00am and arrive at Penn Station about two hours later. After parking my car I had about an hour to kill so I walked just about a block or two down 8th Avenue and picked up some burgers at White Castle, I then walked back to Penn Station and got buzzed into the ClubAcela lounge, I gave the attendant my ticket and he welcomed me in, A few minutes later I decided to pick up some newspapers to read on the train so I told him that I would be back in a few minutes, I went to Hudson News and picked up copies of the New York Times, New York Daily News, the New York Post, the Philadelphia Inquirer and the Washington Post, I walked back to ClubAcela got buzz back in and wave through by the attendant who was busy helping other passengers in and about a minute later as I was setting up my computer to access my email another attendant came over to me and say "I'm sorry sir you'll have to leave the lounge RIGHT NOW!" I asked him what the problem was, he replied "This lounge is for First Class and Sleeper Car passengers only you can't just come in" I told him that I was a First Class passenger and I immediately show him my ticket, A moment of dead silence and he then replied "Ok but next time you have to check-in at the desk" I explained that I did check-in at the desk and that I told the other attendant that I was going to get a newspaper and that when I got back he buzzed me in and waved me through. In the end he just walked away without a single I'm sorry sir for the mistake.

With that nasty incident now behind me I could finally relax on the train get some lunch and read my newspapers, When they finally started boarding the train I walked into the First Class car I was immediately accosted by a conductor who grabbed me by the arm and asked "Where do you think your going?" I said "First off don't give that frickin' attitude, Second don't you ever grab my arm again! and third here is my FIRST CLASS ticket now get the F*** out of my way!" which in retrospect was not the right thing to say or do I should have just shown him the ticket and pointed out that it was a First Class ticket but I was still really pissed off about the whole ClubAcela thing and I really was not in the mood to be man handled or questioned in a nasty attitude, If this conductor had simply asked me for my ticket I would have complied and that would have been the end of it but instead I was treated like a common street criminal trying to get freebies or steal services from Amtrak which is NOT the case, I HAD a First Class ticket and I am entitled to sit in the First Class car and I am entitled to use the ClubAcela Lounge. There was NO REASON whatsoever to treat me in the manner that these employees treated me.

 

[George Harris]

With that nasty incident now behind me I could finally relax on the train get some lunch and read my newspapers, When they finally started boarding the train I walked into the First Class car I was immediately accosted by a conductor who grabbed me by the arm and asked "Where do you think your going?" I said "First off don't give that frickin' attitude, Second don't you ever grab my arm again! and third here is my FIRST CLASS ticket now get the F*** out of my way!" which in retrospect was not the right thing to say or do I should have just shown him the ticket and pointed out that it was a First Class ticket but I was still really pissed off about the whole ClubAcela thing and I really was not in the mood to be man handled or questioned in a nasty attitude, If this conductor had simply asked me for my ticket I would have complied and that would have been the end of it but instead I was treated like a common street criminal trying to get freebies or steal services from Amtrak which is NOT the case, I HAD a First Class ticket and I am entitled to sit in the First Class car and I am entitled to use the ClubAcela Lounge. There was NO REASON whatsoever to treat me in the manner that these employees treated me.

Be glad I was not the conductor. If I had been, you would have been standing on the platform when the train left. I have zero tolerance for that sort of stuff. The main nasty attitude I see here is yours.

 

[Chatter163]

DROVE in from Long Island and parked a car near Penn Station??? h34r:

 

[Amtrak Watcher]

What a strange attitude we see from someone who thinks everyone should know him on sight. Try that kind of behavior with the airlines and see where you end up.

 

[had8ley]

With that nasty incident now behind me I could finally relax on the train get some lunch and read my newspapers, When they finally started boarding the train I walked into the First Class car I was immediately accosted by a conductor who grabbed me by the arm and asked "Where do you think your going?" I said "First off don't give that frickin' attitude, Second don't you ever grab my arm again! and third here is my FIRST CLASS ticket now get the F*** out of my way!" which in retrospect was not the right thing to say or do I should have just shown him the ticket and pointed out that it was a First Class ticket but I was still really pissed off about the whole ClubAcela thing and I really was not in the mood to be man handled or questioned in a nasty attitude, If this conductor had simply asked me for my ticket I would have complied and that would have been the end of it but instead I was treated like a common street criminal trying to get freebies or steal services from Amtrak which is NOT the case, I HAD a First Class ticket and I am entitled to sit in the First Class car and I am entitled to use the ClubAcela Lounge. There was NO REASON whatsoever to treat me in the manner that these employees treated me.

Be glad I was not the conductor. If I had been, you would have been standing on the platform when the train left. I have zero tolerance for that sort of stuff. The main nasty attitude I see here is yours.

I would have to agree with George. If you hindsight this situation it was obvious that the Club Acela employee saw you for waht you were~ somebody "just walking in." In his defence he was just doing his job. Unless you're Brittany Spears or George Bush I don't think the masses that flow through NYP get much attention but it seems like you brought plenty on yourself. Not only would you be standing on the platform, with some conductors I know, you probably would be brought in for questioning as a threat with the foul language. How would you feel if Amtrak backed up and found out what company paid for your tickets and called them to tell them about your vulgarities ???

 

[George Harris]

DROVE in from Long Island and parked a car near Penn Station??? h34r:

True. I ignored this part as almost incidental to the major hyperarrogance displayed. I may be a hick from the sticks, but the idea of DRIVING to New York Penn from anywhere on Long Island that would be two hours out, when I could certainly find a place a lot closer to home to change from car to train makes less sense than the attitude. In fact, stupid is the first word that comes to mind. After all, Long Island has probably the densest train service anywhere in the US. He could probably have done it is less time than it took to drive.

Also agree with had8ley. An involuntary trip to the local police facility could be justified.

 

[Everydaymatters]

I don't know anything about the drive to New York from Long Island, but wait a minute here. I don't understand why everyone thinks this guy is in the wrong.

He told them he was leaving and would be back. When he returned he was waved in. That should have been the end of it. Instead of being asked by the other attendant to see his ticket, he was told to leave immediately. After explaining the situation, the attendant should have said "ok" or "sorry", or some other acknowledgement that he obviously didn't understand the scenario.

As far as being grabbed by the arm - whoa! I get angry thinking about it. Nobody had better grab me by the arm! Why did that conductor think he had the right to grab him or anyone else by the arm?

So how would any of you acted if someone grabbed you by the arm like that?

 

[TVRM610]

I agree with the above statement, while I certainly would have done things differently myself and not used choice language to the conductor. The conductor could have politely asked "may I see your first class ticket sir" Or even if the conductor assumed he wasnt a first class rider, he could have said "I am sorry, this area is for first class passnegers only"

Same thing in the lounge, simply ask "May I please see your first class ticket" not a harsh "you will have to leave". And being waved into first class lounges is pretty common after you have checked in. I believe some lounges give you a little card that you can show the clerk that you have in fact checked in when you go and come back.

 

[had8ley]

I don't know anything about the drive to New York from Long Island, but wait a minute here. I don't understand why everyone thinks this guy is in the wrong.
He told them he was leaving and would be back. When he returned he was waved in. That should have been the end of it. Instead of being asked by the other attendant to see his ticket, he was told to leave immediately. After explaining the situation, the attendant should have said "ok" or "sorry", or some other acknowledgement that he obviously didn't understand the scenario.

As far as being grabbed by the arm - whoa! I get angry thinking about it. Nobody had better grab me by the arm! Why did that conductor think he had the right to grab him or anyone else by the arm?

So how would any of you acted if someone grabbed you by the arm like that?

In this day Amtrak is beefing up security at all quarters. I just pray that someone had grabbed one of the 9/11 conspirators by the arm and stopped him from their deadly mission. It seems that our traveler thinks he is in his own back yard. Au contraire, he was about 2 miles from the World Trade Center and I promise you (hick that I may be) people are still fidgity about 9/11 and openly display their feelings. I'm not insinuating that this person was up to no good. He had a legitimate ticket and deserved just passage. I think this is where charm school comes in for both sides.

 

[Steve4031]

I don't condone cursing at conductors or anybody else. However, I would not take kindly to being grabbed. I don't understand why a conductor would do this. IIRC, most times you board in Penn station and then give your ticket to the conductor on board the train. If first class sometimes the attendant has checked or taken the ticket.

As far as the confustion in the Acela lounge, this guy did check in as per procedure, and then notified the attendnat that he was leaving. I have done the same thing in the first class lounges in several stations. I would have noproblem showing a ticket a second time, but i would not be very happy to be scolded by an officious attendant either.

As far as I can see, this guys only real error was swearing at the conductor. He was lucky not be put off the train. However, Amtrak employees should also be more professional in their interactions with all people.

 

[Guest]

Based on what the original poster has told us (which is all we have), the Amtrak employees where the ones who initiated both conversations with confrontational statements. Yes, perhaps the passenger's reactions were a bit extreme, but he would not have reacted if not confronted with such bad customer service tactics. Who paid for the ticket and how he got to Penn Station are irrelavent. The price paid for this passenger for a first class Acela express fare is considerable and one should expect at least a minimum of courtesy.

 

[MrFSS]

Based on what the original poster has told us (which is all we have) . . .

And therein is the problem we have in looking at this. We only have one side of the story. Be nice if we could hear what the Amtrak employees had to say about the encounters.

 

[haolerider]

Based on what the original poster has told us (which is all we have) . . .

And therein is the problem we have in looking at this. We only have one side of the story. Be nice if we could hear what the Amtrak employees had to say about the encounters.

Sounds to me as though everyone had an attitude that morning. I have been in and out of many of the first class lounges and have not encountered this kind of rudeness and I have never heard of a conductor grabbing someone by the arm and challenging them - unless there was some indication that the person was doing something wrong. Not being an Acela rider, I don't know if there is a diferent format for boarding, but something must have triggered the reaction from the conductor.

 

[AlanB]

Same thing in the lounge, simply ask "May I please see your first class ticket" not a harsh "you will have to leave". And being waved into first class lounges is pretty common after you have checked in. I believe some lounges give you a little card that you can show the clerk that you have in fact checked in when you go and come back.

Only Chicago has the cards, in part because so many people use that lounge, in part because so many people are often waiting for several hours for their train. Especially if they are connecting from one train to another. And even in Chicago you must wave that card as you walk by the desk or you'll have the attendant coming after you.

 

[AlanB]

Not being an Acela rider, I don't know if there is a diferent format for boarding, but something must have triggered the reaction from the conductor.

I'm wondering if Peter had boarded a business class car first and had then attempted to walk from that car into the First Class car. This is frowned upon quite heavily, not only because of the exclusive nature of the FC car, but because one must walk through the kitchen area while the crew is often moving hot food items around. If indeed that's how he was boarding, that could be the reason for the arm grab. And I'm sorry, but I must also question if what Peter describes as a grab, was more intended to be a gentle restraint. He admittedly was already riled up over the Club Acela issue. And are you sure that it was a conductor, or was it one of the First Class attendants?

Turning to the Club Acela issue, while you did nothing wrong, you do need to understand the nature of that lounge in NY. Outside of Chicago, that is the busiest lounge in Amtrak's system and it may even rival Chicago I'm not positive. And you would be surprised how many people do try to sneak into that lounge, some innocently, other's not. Despite the signs, I see people walk in all the time thinking that they are allowed to use the lounge regardless of what type of ticket they have.

My guess is that either attendant #2 who confronted you either did not see the attendant #1 acknowledge you, or perhaps what you thought was a wave to keep going wasn't what attendant #1 was doing or intending. So he may have told attendant #2 to go find out what you were doing. We'll never know now, as they see hundreds of new faces everyday. Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if attendant #1 who waved at you had already forgotten your face.

Now that said, attendant #2 probably could have been nicer, but we don't know what was going through his mind. He might have thought that you were trying to sneak in, and perhaps even had made an attempt to call you or otherwise get you to come to the desk. In that case he would believe that you had deliberately ignored him. I've seen this happen, where an attendant calls out and people either don't realize that they are the one's being called, or again in a few cases deliberately ignore the call. I'm not suggesting that you did the later, but it is still possible that the former happened.

In that case attendant #2 would already be upset at being ignored. Again he should still have remembered that he is in a customer service position and made a better attempt to control his anger, but people are human too. It's also possible that he's just gotten so used to people trying to sneak in that he feels that it is best to be confrontational right off the bat. I honestly don't know.

But I can tell you that I've seen many a person kicked out of the lounge because they don't belong there, and many of them were quite belligerent about it. I even saw one incident where the attendant needed to call for the Amtrak police to escort a patron out who didn't belong in the lounge and refused to leave on his own.

Finally, while I agree that it has nothing to do with the treatment described here, I too have to wonder why you would drive rather than catch the LIRR direct to Penn. I have to wonder if that perhaps didn’t have some bearing on how you perceived things, as I know that spending two hours on the LIE would have me being a bit more tense than if I had been on the LIRR. And my job often requires me to drive on various NY city and area highways, so I know what it’s like. And I like to drive too, but it still takes it’s toll on me.

 

[TVRM610]

Only Chicago has the cards, in part because so many people use that lounge, in part because so many people are often waiting for several hours for their train. Especially if they are connecting from one train to another. And even in Chicago you must wave that card as you walk by the desk or you'll have the attendant coming after you.

Thanks Alan, it has been many years since I have traveled through Chicago, but I thought I remembered cards there. I wasnt sure if that was just an older practice at all lounges, or something that they just did in Chicago as I have not seen the cards in other stations that I have travelled through recently. But you answered my question that I didnt even ask!

 

[Amtrak Watcher]

I was only last month, early April, in the RDU air terminal in North Carolina when I saw a gentleman, about 50 feet before me, walk part-way through the corridor leaving the secure part of the terminal as he apparently remembered he had forgotten something in the secure area. He immediately turned around to walk back toward the gates when an armed security person tackled him, violently took him to the floor, and cuffed him while calling for help on his radio. Helped arrived in less than a minute with guns drawn. Seven years ago, someone returning to the gate area in this way to recover something he left behind would have scarcely deserved a second look. But today, a significant part of the world's population is absolutely determined to kill each and every American, and, as the 9/11 and the London incidents demonstrate, will stop at nothing to accomplish their murderous goals. Since they are on the ground among vast crowds of strangers, Amtrak employees are hyper-exposed to the risks.

Recognizing this, I am careful to wait patiently for everything, including entering or re-entering the Club Acela: you way have said you'll be right back, but you are not George Bush and the world does not revolve around your life; you are not memorable in the crowd. Even when I'm on the train, I take my ticket stub with me where ever I go. Unlike Peter G., our annoyed visitor to this forum, I don't think I am Brittany Spears or George Bush, and understand that I have to be considered a possible threat when I am in the public transport systems. It's a matter of time before we have to do the same things to enter a shopping mall or a university campus. Wait for permission to proceed, remain calm and polite, carry your papers, and don't assume a hostile attitude even if you think you are "right". It's not going the get better. Our enemy wants us to hate our freedom and our way of life. The instant we revert back to our polite and trusting ways, the enemy will attack us again with a furry we can scarcely imagine.

 

[Everydaymatters]

Gentle restraint, Alan? Amtrak employees do not have the right to "restrain" passengers, be it gentle or any other way.

As far as a card, if one was issued, I can certainly see how he would have told the person at the desk he'd be right back and how that person would wave him back in, without a card.

I don't care what kind of a day the pax and Amtrak employees had before these incidents:

The passenger was out of line for using explitives.

The Amtrak employees were out of line and mishandled the situations. Period.

 

[AlanB]

Gentle restraint, Alan? Amtrak employees do not have the right to "restrain" passengers, be it gentle or any other way.

Actually I must respectfully disagree. AFAIK, a conductor does indeed have the right to restrain a passenger. And if that passenger in turn then tries to physically attack the conductor, he/she is going to jail. It is a federal offense, just like attacking a flight attendant.

As far as a card, if one was issued, I can certainly see how he would have told the person at the desk he'd be right back and how that person would wave him back in, without a card.

Again, no cards are issued in NY. Only Chicago does that. In NY it's show your ticket/AGR Select Plus Card everytime or hope that they do remember you.

I don't care what kind of a day the pax and Amtrak employees had before these incidents:The passenger was out of line for using explitives.

The Amtrak employees were out of line and mishandled the situations. Period.

Agreed.

 

[Everydaymatters]

Sorry, I didn't know a conductor has a right to restrain a passenger. However, it would seem that the envelope was pushed a bit in this situation.

 

[Peter G.]

Just as a clarification regarding the drive to Manhattan, The reason I drove is primarily because I use a company car thus I didn't have to pay for gas or worry about paying for parking, the company picks up both, now granted going to Manhattan via the LIRR would have taken about the same amount of time but I didn't want to take a chance in the event that there was a problem with the trains, i.e a break-down etc... and as I stated in my original post I do have regrets for cursing at the conductor but he did grab my arm and I was already in a bad mood as a result of the ClubAcela incident, so I would chalk this up partly as my fault but mostly the conductors behavior was inappropriate and he provoked me.

 

[Mark]

Hmmm, there is probably more to this than meets the eye. My wife and I are more often than not questioned in tones boardering on insulting when we enter the 1st class areas and almost always have to show our tickets multiple times to multiple employees. I'm NEVER nasty and put up with it because when we look around, we realize that we, (both in our mid thirties), are usually two of the youngest, if not THE youngest traveling in 1st class at any given time.

Now that we've made several trips on the LSL to NYC the crews are starting to recognize us and have become much more friendly.

 

[Guest]

Hmmm, there is probably more to this than meets the eye. My wife and I are more often than not questioned in tones boardering on insulting when we enter the 1st class areas and almost always have to show our tickets multiple times to multiple employees. I'm NEVER nasty and put up with it because when we look around, we realize that we, (both in our mid thirties), are usually two of the youngest, if not THE youngest traveling in 1st class at any given time.
Now that we've made several trips on the LSL to NYC the crews are starting to recognize us and have become much more friendly.

Theame happpens to us all the time. We, my wife and I are always the youngest couple traveling forst in sleepers. We are in our late twenties. We feel out of place sometimes and we get our tix checked VERY FREQUENTLY!! I have noticed most people traveling sleepers to be a lot older than us. We have traveled on CZ, CS, EB, and LSL.

 

[D.P. Roberts]

This story got me wondering about the conductor's authority to restrain a passenger. I have not been able to find any U.S. laws about it, but I found this quote from the Canada Transportation Act, italics added:

"Any person in or upon a car, train, station, platform or elsewhere upon premises owned or occupied by the company who is in a state of intoxication, or who is guilty of fighting or of other disorderly conduct, or of using foul, profane, obscene or abusive language, or of otherwise in any way wilfully interfering with the safety, comfort or convenience of other passengers is guilty of an offence under this section. In addition to any other liability incurred under this section, such person may be summarily ejected from such station or other premises of the company, and, in the case of a moving train, may be removed from the train, at any usual stopping place. The conductor, or any servant of the company, may restrain passengers and other persons upon trains from fighting or from using foul, profane, obscene or abusive language, or from conducting themselves in a disorderly manner; provided that the conductor or other servant of the company shall use no unnecessary force."

So, he had the right to grab your arm, but only after you swore at him.

 

[Guest]

I really am continously amazed at the reaction from posters on this site. I just don't understand the immediate attack to a negative comment about Amtrak or its personnel. The person vents his dissatisfaction and unpleasant experience and we get questions about his transportation to Penn Station and requests to know the other side of the story.

Folks, communication 101, you listen. You haven't even really read the post before you are slingling your judgements and opinions. I thought this was a forum about US rail travel. Frankly, I find it more as a small group of people who continously defend an organization and its personnel by their own experiences without giving a hoot about people that might encounter something else.

I've been riding the rails for years and have come across some incredibly ridiculous and difficult situations. We have witnessed many employees be disrespectful and rude. This poster gave an honest rendition of his experiences and even preficed his indiscrestions and you still attacked.

Instead of being a forum for free speech, this is a chat fest for excuses that Amtrak is right and the passenger is always suspect.