Amtrak and United

[kmock]

Has anyone booked a trip through United with an Amtrak segment? Amtrak says on their website to book a trip via Newark-EWR (which I have to do) with a train trip from PHL (which is easy enough for me to do) to earn Amtrak Guest Rewards points for both the train trip and flight. I just had the worst experience with United customer service. Went through two different phone calls and four agents (and a side conversation on Twitter with a rep), none of whom were helpful. Based on my experience, it almost seems like neither United nor Amtrak have ever had any one actually try to do this.The interesting thing about all this is that you can get AGR points on United rather than MileagePlus points, and book the train trip separately.

 

[Lonestar648]

quote from the UA web site from the Amtrak web site (send the UA reservations people the quote from their own web page.):

When you fly United, take Amtrak to connect to or from Newark Liberty International Airport and either Philadelphia, Wilmington, Stamford or New Haven and earn Amtrak Guest Rewards points on the whole trip, including the flight.

Book your Amtrak segment when you book your flight with United at 1-800-UNITED-1 and provide your Amtrak Guest Rewards member number to earn Amtrak Guest Rewards points for your flight. You will earn 1 point per mile traveled (a minimum of 500 points) plus a 25% point bonus for travel in United Business class and 50% bonus for travel in United First class, in addition to the points you earn for your Amtrak travel.

 

[kmock]

Yup, that's what I did/tried. United reps had no clue how to make that happen.

 

[fairviewroad]

I've booked United flights with the Amtrak segment to/from 30th Street at least a half-dozen times, although not within the past four years. I know I got the United miles, but I can't specifically remember whether I got AGR points. In each case I simply booked the ticket through the United website as I would any other airline ticket.

My advice would be to book this IF the itinerary and cost make sense to you. It's just not worth (IMO) spending hours on the phone going around and around with agents as to whether or not you should be getting specific kinds/amounts of points. When it works, this connection can save you lots of money. But don't do it for the points. Just my two cents.

 

[kmock]

Thanks for the advice. It just happened to work out that United had a flight I wanted from EWR for a good price, and I can take the train there. Being able to get AGR is just an added bonus. Regardless, it seems you can still get AGR through the United website. It just seems there was no way to add the Amtrak trip.

 

[jebr]

It's bookable through the United website if you use the airport code ZFV (for Philadelphia 30th St. Station) for your destination. However, you have to use the connections it gives you; you can't just choose any train that you want. It should also be bookable through an agent, though I'm not sure how well that would work. Earning AGR points instead of United points might be difficult; however, and I wouldn't be surprised if that portion was discontinued or quietly went away and no one updated the website.

(For the record, Wilmington is ZWI, Stamford is ZTF, and New Haven is ZVE.)

 

[jis]

You don't need to know the airport code, except to show off your geekiness

. Just type the name of the station. It will find the code. It is no different from booking to any airport.

 

[cpotisch]

It's bookable through the United website if you use the airport code ZFV (for Philadelphia 30th St. Station) for your destination. However, you have to use the connections it gives you; you can't just choose any train that you want. It should also be bookable through an agent, though I'm not sure how well that would work. Earning AGR points instead of United points might be difficult; however, and I wouldn't be surprised if that portion was discontinued or quietly went away and no one updated the website.

(For the record, Wilmington is ZWI, Stamford is ZTF, and New Haven is ZVE.)

Why do they all have the prefix Z? And if they have to use Z, why not make Philly ZPL or something? Just seems unnecessarily random, and could be difficult for newbies.

 

[jis]

Why do they all have the prefix Z? And if they have to use Z, why not make Philly ZPL or something? Just seems unnecessarily random, and could be difficult for newbies.

Ask IATA. They allocate the three letter codes and then ICAO apparently just sticks a K in front of the US IATA codes to get the ICAO Code. Not all IATA codes have corresponding ICAO codes, since the purpose and usage of the two are quite different.

Philly could not be ZPL because Recklinghausen is ZPL.

No normal human being should need to know any of these codes. Only industry insiders and wannabees need to know them, and they have access to easy to use (hopefully) databases of such things. For example, something like: http://www.avcodes.co.uk/aptcodesearch.asp

BTW, I openly acknowledge that I am a wannabe geek!

 

[PRR 60]

Has anyone booked a trip through United with an Amtrak segment? Amtrak says on their website to book a trip via Newark-EWR (which I have to do) with a train trip from PHL (which is easy enough for me to do) to earn Amtrak Guest Rewards points for both the train trip and flight. I just had the worst experience with United customer service. Went through two different phone calls and four agents (and a side conversation on Twitter with a rep), none of whom were helpful. Based on my experience, it almost seems like neither United nor Amtrak have ever had any one actually try to do this.The interesting thing about all this is that you can get AGR points on United rather than MileagePlus points, and book the train trip separately.

Not sure what you mean by "book the train trip separately." In order to use the United/Amtrak codeshare arrangement, the entire trip - rail and air - must be booked through United and on a United reservation (PNR). You can do that on line, using your Mileage Plus number. After the reservation is booked, you can call United to have your AGR number added to the reservation, replacing your MP number. Your reservation for both the rail and air segments will still be with United.

The "Z" airport codes are reserved primarily for ground facilities. The remaining two letters are likely what was available. As mentioned previously, a customer has no need to know the airport code to book travel, just as there is no need to know the Amtrak station code to book a train trip. Entering the city name or just part of the city name will do the trick on any airline or travel site. I take occasional Amtrak trips to Lancaster PA just for the fun of it. I can never remember Amtrak code for Lancaster, but when I enter "Lanc," I get the choice of Lancaster PA or Lancaster CA. As long as I can remember what state I want, I'm in good shape.

EDIT: You can make the entire Amtrak/United booking on United.com. When you enter the passenger name, an option opens for "Frequent flyer program." The pull down includes Amtrak Guest Rewards. Select that, enter your AGR number, and you should be good to go.

 

[the_traveler]

Also, be sure that you don’t try to book the Amtrak segment for PHL-EWR thru UA. Besides PHL being 30th Street Station, the UA computer recognizes PHL as being Philadelphia International Airport.

 

[cpotisch]

Why do they all have the prefix Z? And if they have to use Z, why not make Philly ZPL or something? Just seems unnecessarily random, and could be difficult for newbies.

Ask IATA. They allocate the three letter codes and then ICAO apparently just sticks a K in front of the US IATA codes to get the ICAO Code. Not all IATA codes have corresponding ICAO codes, since the purpose and usage of the two are quite different.

Philly could not be ZPL because Recklinghausen is ZPL.

No normal human being should need to know any of these codes. Only industry insiders and wannabees need to know them, and they have access to easy to use (hopefully) databases of such things. For example, something like: http://www.avcodes.co.uk/aptcodesearch.asp

BTW, I openly acknowledge that I am a wannabe geek!

IATA and ICAO designate train stations? We're talking about a codeshare between a rail carrier and one airline. I find it surprising that they're bothering with that.

BTW, I also proudly acknowledge my wannabe geek-ness.

 

[jis]

Also, be sure that you don’t try to book the Amtrak segment for PHL-EWR thru UA. Besides PHL being 30th Street Station, the UA computer recognizes PHL as being Philadelphia International Airport.

PHL is not the IATA code for 30th St Station as we have been discussing. UA reservation system does not recognize Amtrak codes. It only recognizes IATA code. Also you cannot just book an Amtrak leg using the UA system. It has to be in conjunction with a UA segment.

 

[cpotisch]

Also, be sure that you don’t try to book the Amtrak segment for PHL-EWR thru UA. Besides PHL being 30th Street Station, the UA computer recognizes PHL as being Philadelphia International Airport.

PHL is not the IATA code for 30th St Station as we have been discussing. UA reservation system does not recognize Amtrak codes. It only recognizes IATA code. Also you cannot just book an Amtrak leg using the UA system. It has to be in conjunction with a UA segment.

He's saying that PHL is both the Amtrak code for 30th Street Station, and the IATA code for Philadelphia Airport. And he is correct that if you attempt to book an Amtrak ticket through United, but put in PHL instead of ZFV, United would list flights, not Amtrak.

 

[the_traveler]

What I am saying is that we thing of Philadelphia as PHL for the train station (like we also book to BOS, LAX or PDX), so he may just automatically booked a train from PHL.

 

[jis]

All that I am saying is that this is an entirely geek problem for those who use codes instead of names.

If you simply say "Philadelphia" to the reservation system, it lists two choices:

Philadelphia, PA, US (PHL)

Philadelphia, PA, US (ZFV - Rail Station)

This is similar to what happens say when you input "New York". It lists:

New York/Newark, NJ, US (EWR - Liberty)

New York, NY, US (JFK - Kennedy)

New York, NY, US (LGA - La Guardia)

New York, NY, US (NYC - All Airports)

In each case you select one.

OTOH, if you type in Stamford, it will give you the following choices:

Stamford, CT, US (ZTF - Train Station)

As far as the United reservation system is concerned PHL is the airport, and attempting to travel from "PHL" to say LHR will route you via ORD, whereas attempting to travel from "ZTF - Rail Station" to LHR will get routed via EWR. with the ZTF - EWR leg on a United co-listed Amtrak train, i.e. an Amtrak train with a UA flight number.

The Amtrak reservation system as far as I can tell, knows nothing about this arrangement. It can only be booked through United..

 

[the_traveler]

I know it is not the case here, but somebody may forget and book PHL-LAX. I bet it will book airport to airport not train station to train station. You many even be connecting in Chicago, but I bet it is ORD (O’Hare) not CHI (Union Station).

 

[Trogdor]

I know it is not the case here, but somebody may forget and book PHL-LAX. I bet it will book airport to airport not train station to train station. You many even be connecting in Chicago, but I bet it is ORD (O’Hare) not CHI (Union Station).

Why would someone wanting to take a train from Philadelphia to Los Angeles be on the United website in the first place?

 

[jis]

I know it is not the case here, but somebody may forget and book PHL-LAX. I bet it will book airport to airport not train station to train station. You many even be connecting in Chicago, but I bet it is ORD (O’Hare) not CHI (Union Station).

Why would United book train station to train station. I am afraid you lost me. Even when using Amtrak as one leg of an itinerary, the whole itinerary cannot be purely a train ride. it has to have one segment that is air. The United reservation system is not a substitute for the Amtrak reservation system. Also the United reservation system knows nothing about Amtrak station codes. It only deals with IATA location codes.

Attempt to book ZVF to ZTF yields no itinerary.

Attempt to book PHL to STM yields 3 stop itinerary to place called Santarem, PA, BR costing over $3,000, with the following routing: PHL - IAD - GRU - BEL - STM

Attempt to book PHL to ZTF yields a two stop itinerary PHL - IAD - EWR - ZTF, the last leg on Amtrak!

And just for kicks ZFV - STM yields a 3 stop itinerary costing over $3000, with the following routing: ZFV - EWR - GRU - BEL - STM.

 

[AcrossTheOcean]

Is there an actual Amtrak station in the EWR airport? How do transfers work?

I could pull up both Stuttgart Hbf (ZWS) and Philadelphia Rail station (ZFV) on United's web-site, but it would not give me an itinerary from one to the other. There are non-stop flights from EWR to FRA, so in theory one could do ZFV -> EWR -> FRA -> ZWS. And it isn't like I am trying to book a train trip between North America and Europe.

Lufthansa didn't recognize ZFV. Odd as they are code-share partners with United.

 

[cpotisch]

Is there an actual Amtrak station in the EWR airport? How do transfers work?

I could pull up both Stuttgart Hbf (ZWS) and Philadelphia Rail station (ZFV) on United's web-site, but it would not give me an itinerary from one to the other. There are non-stop flights from EWR to FRA, so in theory one could do ZFV -> EWR -> FRA -> ZWS. And it isn't like I am trying to book a train trip between North America and Europe.

Lufthansa didn't recognize ZFV. Odd as they are code-share partners with United.

There is. It's served by the Keystone Service and NER. You have to take the AirTrain to get there from the terminals.

 

[jis]

Is there an actual Amtrak station in the EWR airport? How do transfers work?

I could pull up both Stuttgart Hbf (ZWS) and Philadelphia Rail station (ZFV) on United's web-site, but it would not give me an itinerary from one to the other. There are non-stop flights from EWR to FRA, so in theory one could do ZFV -> EWR -> FRA -> ZWS. And it isn't like I am trying to book a train trip between North America and Europe.

Lufthansa didn't recognize ZFV. Odd as they are code-share partners with United.

There is a train station at EWR connected to the air terminals by the AirTrain APM.

However, Lufthansa which has DB as code share partner does not have Amtrak as code share partner, and United which has Amtrak as code share partner does not have DB as code share partner AFAICT. Hence what you are trying to do won't work. Code share partnerships are in general not transitive.

However, that does not prevent you from simply flying into Newark, going over to the EWR Rail Station, buy an Amtrak ticket and got to Philly by Amtrak, or just taking Amtrak to EWR and then catching your flight to FRA and then DB to Stuttgart using a Lufthansa ticket I suppose.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Is there an actual Amtrak station in the EWR airport? How do transfers work? I could pull up both Stuttgart Hbf (ZWS) and Philadelphia Rail station (ZFV) on United's web-site, but it would not give me an itinerary from one to the other. There are non-stop flights from EWR to FRA, so in theory one could do ZFV -> EWR -> FRA -> ZWS. And it isn't like I am trying to book a train trip between North America and Europe. Lufthansa didn't recognize ZFV. Odd as they are code-share partners with United.

There is nothing odd about any single airline failing to find a connection between two second or third tier locations. Just because you learned an IATA code exists doesn't mean it's published or codeshared as a universally bookable pair with any other code. Once upon a time a ticket agent or travel alliance would handle this sort of thing. Today it's up to individual passenger to link everything up, including manual segments that may not benefit from a guaranteed connection or other formal recovery process.

 

[kmock]

Yes, I realized, after the fact, that ZFV is the station code for 30th St. (after typing in 30th St. on the United website). But, as the the Amtrak website says, you are supposed to call United customer service, which was my first mistake. I didn't realize that you could book the train segment through United, and why Amtrak wouldn't mention this on their website. And, I'm not even sure why Amtrak says you can get AGR points if you book through 30th St. station because United allows you to choose AGR instead of MileagePlus.

And, as others have mentioned, you are really limited on what trains you can choose from on the United site. I eventually did book a separate flight (through United) and train trip (through Amtrak).

 

[jis]

The other thing is, at least I have noticed that more often than not booking the Amtrak and the United legs separately you can get a significantly lower net fare.

And if you you wish to save even more money you can always do the SEPTA - NJT Trenton shuffle to get to EWR from any SEPTA station. Takes considerably longer than Amtrak from Philly 30th St. though.