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I doubt that they will trim schedules of Regionals until such time when they can trip schedules of Acelas. They are hardly likely to undermine Adela revenues by making the schedule running time of Regionals closer to those of Acelas.
Well then... how about the matter of trimming the schedules of the long-distance trains on the NEC? And, for that matter, #66/67? I guess, in both of those cases, schedule trimming has to wait for the new Viewliners. (Where are they, anyway? Last I heard -- which was April -- the first 8 "for testing" were supposed to be off the line by now. Does anyone have any idea?)
 
I guess my concern comes from both auto racing, where at high speeds things "just happen" that weren't supposed to be able to do such; and from spaceflight where yet again, unexpected vibrations can cause unexpected and very destructive things to happen... if as you say that it's a very well understood discipline: I'll leave it to those that fully understand the engineering.... but from previous experience the operative message, sometimes learned the hard way: if it doesn't absolutely need to gimbal, lock it down - especially if human lives are at stake. Maybe on an ultra smooth surface where outside excitations are less inclined to be induced, then maybe such is that way to go; but in the case of pushing existing rails to higher limits, I would be concerned (though maybe without merit).
You can't really compare trains to auto racing. In auto racing, cars are built to go as fast as possible and this can sometimes be at the cost of optimizing to the limits and leaving very little margin to absorb things when things go wrong. A train is designed to provide 30 to 40 years of service clocking up many millions of miles whereas a racing car may at best be required to provide a season or two of performance with a lot of breathing space between races to thoroughly rebuild anything that has gone wrong.

TGVs have run at speeds of something like 570km/h on test runs. many individual parts have been exposed to simulated speeds on testers that were considerably higher than that even. In service they run at a max of 350 km/h. This shows the margin of safety there is in the system. Furthermore, speeds have not increased in leaps and bounds but have been gradually ramped up over the years in line with experience and confidence levels. The initial TGV ran at 250 km/h and this was upgraded to 270 km/h after a year or two. As the second generation came online they went to 300 km/h (with many of the older sets being retrofitted), then they did 320, then 350. This is a development that spans 30 years, not 6 months. With all those 100s of sets still in service, and close collaboration between SNCF and Alstom with operating and maintenance experience flowing back into the design process, and technical staff also being exchanged between the companies on a regular basis, you can bet that if there is anything nasty that can go wrong, that the right people are aware of that and have thought of something.

TGVs also have a perfect safety record in high speed derailments, specially the one caused by a part of the track structure collapsing into a long lost WW I trench remnants, causing a TGV to derail at more or less full speed. The only serious injuries were to people standing trackside from flying ballast.
Both, learned responses - thank you.

But I think, and this is not to say that I really disagree with what was said - but race cars, at least professional ones, aren't really "tweaked" to within a hair of exploding/crashing etc. Given what a team costs to run, and the liability exposure of killing a driver, or worse people in the stands, and just simply the coast of a car, yes engines are quite often treated as consumables, but aerodynamics are typically wind tunnel tested not only for desired effects, but also potentially instabilities. I guess what I'm feeling discomforted by is the experience of when aerodynamic shaping became the norm during the 80's: it seemed that it didn't matter how many hours one spent in the tunnels, how many millions of dollars one spent in achieving the desired effects and still giving one sufficient engineering margins: "stuff" always happened. The case that comes to mind immediately was the nose/chin spooks which provided the front-end down-force. All the tunnel testing never hinted at the problem of having another car in front of your car, dirtying the air, negating the necessary down-force and turning the car into a lifting body. Fine, nobody saw that one, and all the teams went back, spent further millions on building margins in again given that contingency; only to discover that being the center car of three running side by side, could generate equal unforeseens. ... in the spook community, one thing they teach is: it's not what you don't know that'll kill you, it's what you know that isn't true that will, ie, it's when you think you have all the bases covered and aren't paying meticulous all the time to everything, double and triple checking assumptions, that the unexpected happens; and like I said before - at TGV or champ car type velocities (not all that different), when things go bad, they do so very quickly and very badly. We saw problems with tire dimensions changing with speed and temperature; we saw such little things as aero surfaces becoming wet from rain and losing laminar flow; we saw subtle changes w/re even such little things as the shape of the driver's helmet, and where it sat in the airstream. My concerns w/re the articulation might even go to the level of wet track vs dry track and the rolling resistance, or worse some wheels seeing a dry track and others not, where one could see some type of self-reinforcing behaviors introduced, and without the dry track level of friction, might no longer be self damping.

As you point out, the increase in speeds has been incremental and over a long time... but even so, just from experience, mother nature does seem to have a profound ability to toss a monkey wrench into the works, especially when one is least expecting it.

Again - thanks for the learned responses - greg
 
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These scenarios are similar to what happened in Spain. No one would have guessed that even in abnormal situations that a crash so significant could occur. You can't engineer 100% safety. You can engineer 90% safety at x-cost and 95% safety at 10x-cost. In other words, the cost to increase safety at the high end exponentially grows.
 
Both, learned responses - thank you.

But I think, and this is not to say that I really disagree with what was said - but race cars, at least professional ones, aren't really "tweaked" to within a hair of exploding/crashing etc. Given what a team costs to run, and the liability exposure of killing a driver, or worse people in the stands, and just simply the coast of a car, yes engines are quite often treated as consumables, but aerodynamics are typically wind tunnel tested not only for desired effects, but also potentially instabilities. I guess what I'm feeling discomforted by is the experience of when aerodynamic shaping became the norm during the 80's: it seemed that it didn't matter how many hours one spent in the tunnels, how many millions of dollars one spent in achieving the desired effects and still giving one sufficient engineering margins: "stuff" always happened. The case that comes to mind immediately was the nose/chin spooks which provided the front-end down-force. All the tunnel testing never hinted at the problem of having another car in front of your car, dirtying the air, negating the necessary down-force and turning the car into a lifting body. Fine, nobody saw that one, and all the teams went back, spent further millions on building margins in again given that contingency; only to discover that being the center car of three running side by side, could generate equal unforeseens. ... in the spook community, one thing they teach is: it's not what you don't know that'll kill you, it's what you know that isn't true that will, ie, it's when you think you have all the bases covered and aren't paying meticulous all the time to everything, double and triple checking assumptions, that the unexpected happens; and like I said before - at TGV or champ car type velocities (not all that different), when things go bad, they do so very quickly and very badly. We saw problems with tire dimensions changing with speed and temperature; we saw such little things as aero surfaces becoming wet from rain and losing laminar flow; we saw subtle changes w/re even such little things as the shape of the driver's helmet, and where it sat in the airstream. My concerns w/re the articulation might even go to the level of wet track vs dry track and the rolling resistance, or worse some wheels seeing a dry track and others not, where one could see some type of self-reinforcing behaviors introduced, and without the dry track level of friction, might no longer be self damping.

As you point out, the increase in speeds has been incremental and over a long time... but even so, just from experience, mother nature does seem to have a profound ability to toss a monkey wrench into the works, especially when one is least expecting it.

Again - thanks for the learned responses - greg

Greg, First of all, thanks for that fascinating insight into the world of auto racing. I wasn't aware of any of that.

I can't really speak for the TGV as I have never been personally involved, but I did spend some time working for a European train maker and back in my university days I attended a lecture by an experienced designer and engineer who shared many anecdotes from his own experience of different projects.

Some of those stories were pretty hairy sequences of things going wrong that really logically couldn't have gone wrong, and going wrong in such a sequence as to make things you'd consider impossible to actually happen. Resonant frequencies combined with aberrant air pressures and temperatures and all the stuff you think can really only happen in a bad movie. Also questions of human errors and safety interlocks being beaten by human ingenuity. I personally experienced a situation with such an interlock. To prevent the main contactor cabinet being open while power was switched on, there was a unique key and it could only be removed from the cabinet when this was totally closed and locked. Now there was a short-circuit switch to short-circuit that cabinet when you were working in it. And you could only move that switch if the main switch was off. So this cabinet key normally lived on that switch, and you could only remove it when it was in safe mode. Only when all those keys were inserted into one special lock in the right order could another key be released and that key was needed to start the auxiliary systems. Without them you couldn't start the train. This was furthermore backed up by an electrical system that also monitored the interlocks. But that one was more easy to beat if you stuck magnets in the right places. Now we had this technician who loved to work really hard. He did late night shifts and weekend work and did as much work as three normal guys. Of course managers were always praising him for this and giving his bonuses so he was under immense pressure to keep it up. He was pretty tired of having to go through all this key changing game every time as he was fiddling with the equipment and then test driving the train dozens if not hundreds of times a day. So he took the key home and had a copy made (it was actually a special key that normal locksmiths can't copy, so he must have done something special). Well, you can imagine what happened next. Anyway, he managed to power up the main circuit breaker while the short circuit switch was in place and the door open and blew 15 000 V through the cabinet causing damage worth several millions and bits of equipment flew through the entire factory. He was very lucky not to be injured himself. The inside of the locomotive was completely black and took several months to get working again. Interestingly, seeing he was managment's favorite guy, it was all hushed up and though I expect he got shouted at a bit behind closed doors no measures were ever taken that we were ever told about.

So yes, things can go wrong, no matter what precautions you take. But on the other hand with millions and millions of miles of experience, including several accidents, near accidents and extreme conditions, I think the probability of hidden serious defects is pretty low.
 
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Thanks for the excellent follow up... and yes, you fully understand my shyness/concerns. ... when one leaves grad school, one thinks they know everything and there is no problem that can't be solved/resolved, and nothing new that can't be perfectly engineered on the first go... but as the decades pass, one comes to understand just how little one in fact actually "knew." In the software world there is the expression (thinking about your tech and his extra key): it is impossible to write fool-proof software: because fools are much too clever.

So, when I see the articulation: I wish for the best, but fear for the worst. ;-) ;-(

Again, many thanks for the excellent reply - greg
 
The BIGGEST!! Heads UP on the new electric. It is currently out and about. It is in a slot behind 178. He will be running all the way to BOS. Tomorrow he will make a turn and will be behind 163 to WIL.

I'll try to get out tomorrow. No idea where though..
 
I am pulling out of PHL right now. While waiting, the ACS pulled up 3 tracks over (about 6pm, Friday Sept 6). My pictures were pretty bad with everything in between.

It was coming from the south, leading about 4 coaches and 2 NE Regional cafe cars. One of the cafes was the only car to have people sitting inside and was the only car to open doors One of the toaster engines was attached to the rear.

About 8 people came in and out of the locomotive and milled about next to it. The only couple people I could see in one of the cafe cars were typing away. It sat for about 10 minutes and then I had to depart. Looked like it wasn't going anywhere for a while.
 
From Chuchubob: "The yellow wheels on the lead truck are instrumented wheelsets (IWS) that are required for the qualification of equipment to run over 90 mph."
 
So, one wonders if this is as a warning to others that this is a engine in qualification; or a visual hint for those that need to find the instruments and save them from having to check one end and then the other? ... but interesting - thanks for the follow up.
 
Here are some pics from Chuchubob:http://chuchubob.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3615923

http://chuchubob.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3615924

http://chuchubob.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3615925

http://chuchubob.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=361592

ChuchuBob... AKA Bob Vogel.. AKA The man that gets around town.. AKA endless AKA's... I know him personally.. Very nice guy.. I have some stories I've heard about him from a family friend..
 
Fan Railer - you've been busy... with delightful results - many thanks for the postings.

Though a question: given the rate at which the ACS travels(/can travel) - how are you able to position yourself ahead of it so as to get these vids? Or, are they not taking advantage of its top velocities yet?
 
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Yea, I'm just sharing stuff as it comes on youtube. Sadly, I'm stuck in Pennsylvania at college, away from the NEC. I'll be able to grab my first shots of this beauty during thanksgiving break though; by which time they should be in revenue service and hauling those lengthened holiday regionals (10-14 cars).

More from yesterday and today:


 
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