2 Dead after car collides with train 59 the CONO

[BuzzKillington]

Something to think about. I would say that far more people have been killed because of human error at railroad crossings than have been killed onboard trains... yet the Government is requiring the railroads to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on PTC because of one incident in California. Would the money be better spent installing crossing signals? Just a thought.

I am from a very populated area with signals at every crossing along the railroad, but a few years ago, on a trip to the Midwest, I remember seeing only a crossbuck and not thinking anything of it, figuring it was just a small unused branch line. I realized after I got there that it was actually a CP main line. Fortunately it was very flat so I would have seen a train coming but when you are not used to it, they do sneak up on you.

 

[George Harris]

It's pretty hard to miss the headlight and the... umm... what do you call the two little lights under the headlight that blink left, then right, then left, then right...? I love those lights.

These things were first used in Canada, and were called ditch lights because the lit up the areas off to the sides that the headlights did not illuminate. Whether that is what they are still called, I do not know.

The FRA calls them "Auxilliary Lights" in the regulation, but they are known as Ditch Lights in the field. They do make a world of difference! They do not, however, all flash. That seems to be an East Coast (CSX/NS) and Amtrak thing. Most of the rest of the US uses steady ditch lights that do not flash.

In many (all?) cases, the lights are on steadily when running and flash left-right when the horn is being blown. Some may flash all the time, but I would think that would drive the engineer bonkers after a while.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

I think there should be a law that all grade crossings including those on private roads and driveways have crossing gates no matter what.

And every road intersection with stop signs should have them replaced with traffic lights or grade seperations? There is a limit to how far it is reasonable to go to protect people from themselves.

Its one thing if people run stop signs people run red lights too I don't see anyone trying to prevent that. train crossings are a different matter and even on private roads there should be crossing gates after all it is a ROAD. I don't see people trying to add protection to protect those who get hit by those who run stop signs or read lights.

 

[SarahZ]

In many (all?) cases, the lights are on steadily when running and flash left-right when the horn is being blown. Some may flash all the time, but I would think that would drive the engineer bonkers after a while.

Ohhhhhh, that explains why I thought they flash constantly. When the train comes through town, it's approaching multiple intersections, pretty much one right after the other, so the horn blows almost constantly. By the time it clears one intersection, it's approaching another.

I'm trying to remember if the lights keep flashing when it's parked at the station, though. The way our station is set up, the train blocks Rose Street while it's parked there, no matter which direction it's headed. I'll have to wander over there sometime to see if they're flashing while it's sitting there. Since the crossing gates/bells/lights are going the entire time it's blocking the road, the ditch lights might still be activated (?)

 

[afigg]

North Carolina DOT has been a leading state in efforts to improve grade crossing safety and reduce fatalities. They have done studies and field trials in alternate approaches for grade crossing improvements - quad gate, longer gate barriers that stretch 2/3rd of the way across the road, median barriers to keep people from cutting around the gates. Even if a crossing has the standard lowered gates, people drive around them - sometimes with fatal results - more often than one might think. For anyone interested in some light reading, there are a bunch of reports and tables at the NC DOT website for their grade crossing safety initiative, this one for their Sealed Corridor Program.

 

[Shortline]

1327698068[/url]' post='343276']

1327624198[/url]' post='343147']

1327615773[/url]' post='343126']

1327614086[/url]' post='343119']It's pretty hard to miss the headlight and the... umm... what do you call the two little lights under the headlight that blink left, then right, then left, then right...? I love those lights.

These things were first used in Canada, and were called ditch lights because the lit up the areas off to the sides that the headlights did not illuminate. Whether that is what they are still called, I do not know.

The FRA calls them "Auxilliary Lights" in the regulation, but they are known as Ditch Lights in the field. They do make a world of difference! They do not, however, all flash. That seems to be an East Coast (CSX/NS) and Amtrak thing. Most of the rest of the US uses steady ditch lights that do not flash.

In many (all?) cases, the lights are on steadily when running and flash left-right when the horn is being blown. Some may flash all the time, but I would think that would drive the engineer bonkers after a while.

That is correct, those that do flash, start when the horn is blown, and continue for about 20-30 seconds, then go back to steady (not sure about how the AMTK locomotives are setup, maybe they stay flashing when stopped? I don't know). I believe they do work to get attention, I have had more close calls with steady lights vs ones that flash. Wish they all were equipped that way!

 

[Karl1459]

Bring back the (espee) MARS lights!!!

 

[SarahZ]

That settles it. When the train rolls in at 7:40-ish, I'll see if the lights keep flashing while it's stopped at KAL. It's only a few blocks away, and I need to go for a walk anyway.

 

[George Harris]

49CFR222

§ 222.3 What areas does this regulation cover?
(a) This part prescribes standards for sounding locomotive horns when locomotives approach and pass through public highway-rail grade crossings. This part also provides standards for the creation and maintenance of quiet zones within which locomotive horns need not be sounded.

(b) The provisions of this part are separate and severable from one another. If any provision is stayed or determined to be invalid, it is the intent of FRA that the remaining provisions shall continue in effect.

© This part does not apply to any Chicago Region highway-rail grade crossing where the railroad was excused from sounding the locomotive horn by the Illinois Commerce Commission, and where the railroad did not sound the horn, as of December 18, 2003.

§ 222.5 What railroads does this regulation apply to?

This part applies to all railroads except:

(a) A railroad that exclusively operates freight trains only on track which is not part of the general railroad system of transportation;

(b) Passenger railroads that operate only on track which is not part of the general railroad system of transportation and that operate at a maximum speed of 15 miles per hour over public highway-rail grade crossings; and

© Rapid transit operations within an urban area that are not connected to the general railroad system of transportation. See 49 CFR part 209, appendix A for the definitive statement of the meaning of the preceding sentence.

§ 222.7 What is this regulation's effect on State and local laws and ordinances?

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, issuance of this part preempts any State law, rule, regulation, or order governing the sounding of the locomotive horn at public highway-rail grade crossings, in accordance with 49 U.S.C. 20106.

(b) This part does not preempt any State law, rule, regulation, or order governing the sounding of the locomotive horn at any highway-rail grade crossing described in §222.3© of this part.

© Except as provided in §§222.25 and 222.27, this part does not preempt any State law, rule, regulation, or order governing the sounding of locomotive horns at private highway-rail grade crossings or pedestrian crossings.

. . . .

Subpart B—Use of Locomotive Horns

§ 222.21 When must a locomotive horn be used?

(a) Except as provided in this part, the locomotive horn on the lead locomotive of a train, lite locomotive consist, individual locomotive, or lead cab car shall be sounded when such locomotive or lead cab car is approaching a public highway-rail grade crossing. Sounding of the locomotive horn with two long, one short, and one long blast shall be initiated at a location so as to be in accordance with paragraph (b) of this section and shall be repeated or prolonged until the locomotive or train occupies the crossing. This pattern may be varied as necessary where crossings are spaced closely together.

(b)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (b)(2) of this section, the locomotive horn shall begin to be sounded at least 15 seconds, but no more than 20 seconds, before the locomotive enters the crossing.

(2) Trains, locomotive consists, and individual locomotives traveling at speeds in excess of 45 mph shall not begin sounding the horn more than one-quarter mile (1,320 feet) in advance of the nearest public highway-rail grade crossing, even if the advance warning provided by the locomotive horn will be less than 15 seconds in duration.

© As stated in §222.3© of this part, this section does not apply to any Chicago Region highway-rail grade crossing at which railroads were excused from sounding the locomotive horn by the Illinois Commerce Commission, and where railroads did not sound the horn, as of December 18, 2003.

§ 222.23 How does this regulation affect sounding of a horn during an emergency or other situations?

(a)(1) Notwithstanding any other provision of this part, a locomotive engineer may sound the locomotive horn to provide a warning to animals, vehicle operators, pedestrians, trespassers or crews on other trains in an emergency situation if, in the locomotive engineer's sole judgment, such action is appropriate in order to prevent imminent injury, death, or property damage.

(2) Notwithstanding any other provision of this part, including provisions addressing the establishment of a quiet zone, limits on the length of time in which a horn may be sounded, or installation of wayside horns within quiet zones, this part does not preclude the sounding of locomotive horns in emergency situations, nor does it impose a legal duty to sound the locomotive horn in such situations.

(b) Nothing in this part restricts the use of the locomotive horn in the following situations:

(1) When a wayside horn is malfunctioning;

(2) When active grade crossing warning devices have malfunctioned and use of the horn is required by one of the following sections of this chapter: §§234.105, 234.106, or 234.107; or

(3) When grade crossing warning systems are temporarily out of service during inspection, maintenance, or testing of the system.

© Nothing in this part restricts the use of the locomotive horn for purposes other than highway-rail crossing safety (e.g., to announce the approach of a train to roadway workers in accordance with a program adopted under part 214 of this chapter, or where required for other purposes under railroad operating rules).

§ 222.25 How does this rule affect private highway-rail grade crossings?

This rule does not require the routine sounding of locomotive horns at private highway-rail grade crossings. Except as specified in this section, this part is not meant to address the subject of private grade crossings and is not intended to affect present State or local laws or orders, or private contractual or other arrangements regarding the routine sounding of locomotive horns at private highway-rail grade crossings

Parts left out add various details of applicibility.

From 49CFR229

229.129 - Locomotive horn.
(a) Each lead locomotive shall be equipped with a locomotive horn that produces a minimum sound level of 96 dB(A) and a maximum sound level of 110 dB(A) at 100 feet forward of the locomotive in its direction of travel. The locomotive horn shall be arranged so that it can be conveniently operated from the engineer's usual position during operation of the locomotive.

. . . .

(d) This section does not apply to locomotives of rapid transit operations which are otherwise subject to this part.

The part left out is a fairly lengthy discussion of when and how the law takes effect adn how horn volume is to be measured to ensure compliance.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Bring back the (espee) MARS lights!!!

Now that is TOO CLASSIC, especially when coupled with the deep tone horn on the Covered Wagons.

 

[The Chief]

Bring back the (espee) MARS lights!!!

Karlchen, other roads besides SP used the Mars®™ lights on their F locos. ATSF, WP, and UP for example. Several loco models had two circular headlights, an oscillating* Mars atop a fixed headlight.

Karl, did I read somewhere EsPee sometimes used a red Mars light on some of its fleet? I recall, too, that SP had some multi-headlight configurations (more than two), and so did WP I think.

With fed safety funding Amtrak could explore retrofitting four-six 42s with a roof-mounted oscillating light in a safety study. That would affect aerodynamically, perhaps, and aesthetically, and would be old school. Or how about trial replacement of the two front-end red lights on the P42 with some 21st century oscillating LED lights? Check out the arrangement on


.
These suggestions offered as part of this thread, not a campaign.

* I finally got to use oscillating in a post!

<--- Check my "Interests" below my avatar,,,

 

[Shortline]

Bring back the (espee) MARS lights!!!

Karlchen, other roads besides SP used the Mars®™ lights on their F locos. ATSF, WP, and UP for example. Several loco models had two circular headlights, an oscillating* Mars atop a fixed headlight.

Karl, did I read somewhere EsPee sometimes used a red Mars light on some of its fleet? I recall, too, that SP had some multi-headlight configurations (more than two), and so did WP I think.

With fed safety funding Amtrak could explore retrofitting four-six 42s with a roof-mounted oscillating light in a safety study. That would affect aerodynamically, perhaps, and aesthetically, and would be old school. Or how about trial replacement of the two front-end red lights on the P42 with some 21st century oscillating LED lights? Check out the arrangement on

The red Mars light warned approaching trains that the train displaying it was in emergency....meaning the train may be derailed, and to stop, or pass at "restricted" speed. This was helpful in the days before radio.

 

[Big Iron]

Something to think about. I would say that far more people have been killed because of human error at railroad crossings than have been killed onboard trains... yet the Government is requiring the railroads to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on PTC because of one incident in California. Would the money be better spent installing crossing signals? Just a thought.

I am from a very populated area with signals at every crossing along the railroad, but a few years ago, on a trip to the Midwest, I remember seeing only a crossbuck and not thinking anything of it, figuring it was just a small unused branch line. I realized after I got there that it was actually a CP main line. Fortunately it was very flat so I would have seen a train coming but when you are not used to it, they do sneak up on you.

My grandparents lived on a farm in Illinois that was not far from the now BNSF mainline. During corn season the farmers would plant very close to the tracks effecively blocking the view and causing some casualties. I can recall a particularly dangerous crossing in Richmond where VDOT would leave the mangled wrecks of cars hit by trains right next to the warning lights.

 

[SarahZ]

With fed safety funding Amtrak could explore retrofitting four-six 42s with a roof-mounted oscillating light in a safety study. That would affect aerodynamically, perhaps, and aesthetically, and would be old school. Or how about trial replacement of the two front-end red lights on the P42 with some 21st century oscillating LED lights? Check out the arrangement on

That makes me want to listen to techno music and grab some glow sticks.

 

[Ryan]

Bring back the (espee) MARS lights!!!

Not a true MARS light, but MARC's Kawasaki cab cars use a similar gyralight. Cool stuff.

With fed safety funding Amtrak could explore retrofitting four-six 42s with a roof-mounted oscillating light in a safety study. That would affect aerodynamically, perhaps, and aesthetically, and would be old school. Or how about trial replacement of the two front-end red lights on the P42 with some 21st century oscillating LED lights? Check out the arrangement on

Seconded. Time to crank up some Pandora now that the kid is in bed.

 

[TimePeace]

>>In any case, sympathy for the dead accomplishes nothing.<<

I disagree - it proves you have a spark of humanity in you.

Not to forgive stupidity - but sympathy for the dead, yes.

 

[NE933]

Ok, i can't resist saying something, namely about the Mars/gyro lites. Amtrak used them here in the Northeast Corridor on E60's (way before they were rebuilt into the 600 - series fleet), as well as the original self propelled Metroliners. Awesome. It somehow conveyed that A TRAIN WAS APPROACHING and that THAT SORT OF THING IS SERIOUS!! SO PAY ATTENTION AND STAND BACK!! These ditch lights just don't do it for me. But several engineers have made testimonial that they are superior with throwing light onto the track itself, and so gave a sense of safety that you can better see what's up ahead.

That said, when the AEM7's and F40's were new, their strobe lights had such powerful lux that it illuminated the dark Florida Kissimmee station 200 ft radius, albeit for only seconds at a time. They worked extremely effectively in getting others' attention, but as we all know, grade collisions happened back them too. Maybe Amtrak should try a NASA grade LED disk. It would cost plenty up front, but would save on power and last indefinately.

 

[The Chief]

Not a true MARS light, but MARC's Kawasaki cab cars use a similar gyralight. Cool stuff.

That makes me want to listen to techno music and grab some glow sticks.

Seconded. Time to crank up some Pandora now that the kid is in bed.

Funny stuff, Sorcha and Ryan, about the techno dance music, which I like!

So Ryan's ref to MARC's encouraged me to find this


at 00:43 on PV Sierra Hotel, and it is pretty bright at night. The videographer even has VO comment, "Wow! Look at that Mars light!
After all that video searching, I ate one of these: