Good management involves a respectful understanding of cause and effect (not imagined, but real and likely from previous experience); the nickel and dime tomfoolery is an artifact of policies forced by people for whom political rhetoric is more important than the task of governance they were sent to do (and likely a terribly failed understanding of cause and effect - which can be summarized as a detachment from reality - also called delusion).
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seat38a
Engineer
IMG_0115 by seat38a, on Flickr
IMG_0117 by seat38a, on Flickr
P1000059 by seat38a, on Flickr
P1000085 by seat38a, on Flickr
IMG_0159 by seat38a, on FlickrIt was all plastic and paper except for the utensils when we look the LD train in January. The table cloth is the thick paper kind and all the dishes were plastic. Did not affect the taste of the food one bit. I can say that the food in the diner was better than Denny's on a good day. Also, no problem cutting through the steak on the plastic plate.
One thing they could change is the size of the salad dressing. We used one for four people in our booth and half the packet was still leftover.
seat38a
Engineer
When cutting a steak, if I need a "steak knife," I probably don't want the steak ;-) when I have a rib-eye at home, if a regular dinner knife won't cut it easily, the butcher hears about it.When cutting my steak, I want a steak knife that I wont cut through to the table, meaning a real plate.
Bruce-SSR
P1000085 by seat38a, on FlickrThey still give you one!
MSP_Train_Hopper
Train Attendant
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I had breakfast on the Empire Builder yesterday from Minot to St. Paul. In a nutshell, all the plates and bowls were plastic, and the tablecloths & napkins were paper. I was surprised to see that the juice glasses were real glass. While I would have preferred the real dishes this route had just a few months ago, what was just sad to me was that the hot beverages were served in the paper cups from the lounge car (no lids or sleeves), and there weren't any real menus. Just photocopies of the menu on plain paper were used at every table.
JoeBas
Conductor
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- Dec 30, 2011
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- 1,214
On 2/20 last week, I found that the downgrades in "amenities" didn't really bother me - the plates seemed the same as always, the paper ABOVE A TABLECLOTH seemed to work just fine, and I didn't miss the flower on the table. I brought my own "Private Stock" of Cranberry Juice for the sleeper, which worked just fine.
What DID bother me is the cutbacks in the menu... especially the kids menu. Only two choices (Hot Dog & Macs and Cheese), for both Lunch AND DINNER, gets a bit problematic with kids. Even worse, on 2, they were out of Hot Dogs, meaning my son had that choice of having "Or Macs and Cheese"... which of course they ALSO ran out of while we were ordering. So now what?
On 19/1 heading back, we'll have a dinner, lunch, dinner and lunch to get through... can only imagine how it is for kids on a big long western trip!
I understand needing to show the partisan warriors in Congress that you're not being wasteful... but going from 5 choices down to 2 seems to be to be a bit much. Won't someone PLEASE, PLEASE think of the children?!?!?!?!?!
What DID bother me is the cutbacks in the menu... especially the kids menu. Only two choices (Hot Dog & Macs and Cheese), for both Lunch AND DINNER, gets a bit problematic with kids. Even worse, on 2, they were out of Hot Dogs, meaning my son had that choice of having "Or Macs and Cheese"... which of course they ALSO ran out of while we were ordering. So now what?
On 19/1 heading back, we'll have a dinner, lunch, dinner and lunch to get through... can only imagine how it is for kids on a big long western trip!
I understand needing to show the partisan warriors in Congress that you're not being wasteful... but going from 5 choices down to 2 seems to be to be a bit much. Won't someone PLEASE, PLEASE think of the children?!?!?!?!?!
Hopefully you called Amtrak/emailed your disatifaction with this idiotic bean counter cut! If this happened with the regular menu even the biggest cheerleader for Amtrak on AU would be forming the lynch mob!
Let them eat cake!
Let them eat cake!
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T
train rider
Guest
I've gathered quite the collection of plastic Amware that is extremely useful when grilling for friends. Far more useful than paper plates and far less wasteful (for me anyway, not so much for Amtrak) -- simple to wash and easy to store since it is thin. It also makes a great conversation starter to tell them about riding the train.
One can either make lemonade or rant against Congress.
One can either make lemonade or rant against Congress.
crescent2
Conductor
Ditto the above (Jim H's post). I don't understand how cutting the number of choices saves much money. I do understand how it could lose a few customers.
As for the other cuts in amenities, it's certainly better than no dining car service, but on the rare occasions when I get to travel and dine in a train, I like it to be a little different from a comparable land based restaurant. A few special touches on a train make it, well, kind of special. No one thing (tablecloth, fresh flower, "real" plate, etc.) is a big deal, but collectively they do change the ambiance of the rail dining experience. First class (sleeper) accommodations are not cheap, and the average non-rail-fan passenger might expect a little better, or something more memorable, for the price they've paid.
As for the other cuts in amenities, it's certainly better than no dining car service, but on the rare occasions when I get to travel and dine in a train, I like it to be a little different from a comparable land based restaurant. A few special touches on a train make it, well, kind of special. No one thing (tablecloth, fresh flower, "real" plate, etc.) is a big deal, but collectively they do change the ambiance of the rail dining experience. First class (sleeper) accommodations are not cheap, and the average non-rail-fan passenger might expect a little better, or something more memorable, for the price they've paid.
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All look like pleasant pictures - sure didn't see such on the CZ in June. Even the presentation (for you) was nice.P1000085 by seat38a, on FlickrWhen cutting a steak, if I need a "steak knife," I probably don't want the steak ;-) when I have a rib-eye at home, if a regular dinner knife won't cut it easily, the butcher hears about it.When cutting my steak, I want a steak knife that I wont cut through to the table, meaning a real plate.
Bruce-SSR
They still give you one!
W/re comparing to Denny's - given the meal prices (adjusted for the fact that it's on a train and with associated costs) - I would hope for something well well above Denny's (and in fact such has been the case until this more recent trip).Only in the most myopic way, ie, if one has four choices, and one has to have a reasonable supply of each, the waste at the end of the trip is going to be 2x for the four items vs the two items.... but the actual cost of that waste is so small compared to the bigger picture; likewise as pointed out: if one loses customers because of it, the longer term losses are much greater.
crescent2
Conductor
Yeah, that's why I said "saves much money."
(I've learned that one best try to parse words and phrases here and avoid figures of speech!)
(I've learned that one best try to parse words and phrases here and avoid figures of speech!)
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seat38a
Engineer
Oh wow, not even the plastic disposable coffee cup that I got above? Just those lousy Starbucksish cups?
This was the essence of the Fred Harvey experience and what made him so successful at his endeavor: high quality food, amazingly prepared and served in unbelievable time, and for each route, unique items and carrying a flavor of the route [the SWC had a huge variety of Southwest "inspired" dishes]. ... I would highly recommend Fried's Appetite for America, also Poling-Kempes' The Harvey Girls (especially the former)... his approach was to focus on the food, the presentation, the customer and the quality of the experience, and the money would take care of itself (which was the case) - as opposed to today's seeming: this is how much we're (Amtrak) willing to spend, what can we produce for such. ... the baked enchiladas at the Bright Angle Lodge (south rim Grand Canyon) are his recipe; the breakfast hash at El Tovar (likewise south rim) is of his creation... both are 11's on a scale of 10.... of note: dinner ran between 45 cents and 65 cents (1930s, into 1940s).
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You've got one of those also :-( seems ours spends most of his time sending us emails about how Obama is/has destroyed the nation, is responsible for the civil war in Iraq, is dragging the nation into this one world order, world government, and is precluding them from fixing the nation because he vetoes everything they pass [reality is that Obama has only vetoed two bills in 6 years].
I was agreeing with youYeah, that's why I said "saves much money."
(I've learned that one best try to parse words and phrases here and avoid figures of speech!)
and hopefully adding to your point/observation.FormerOBS
Conductor
If they don't pass anything, that means he vetoes everything they pass. Your congressperson is brilliant!
Green Maned Lion
Engineer
I do think of the kids. Ditch the kids menu entirely. I've never ordered it. I've been eating Amsteak or Amchicken since I was 5 years old.
Devil's Advocate
⠀⠀⠀
I really don't think those thin plastic plates were intended to be used with metal utensils. When I'm careful I can usually get by without damaging the plate but some plastic dishes still crack open on occasion. Maybe those plates had a defect or something. The knife doesn't bother me as much as the fork. In the case of the salad bowl I have to leave some of the salad behind or risk puncturing through the bottom. I'm also dismayed at all the extra landfill trash these plastic plates are creating.
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crescent2
Conductor
Yes, I know you were. I didn't mean to sound grumpy!I was agreeing with youYeah, that's why I said "saves much money."
(I've learned that one best try to parse words and phrases here and avoid figures of speech!)
I just think these latest cuts are counter-productive.
The El Tovar at the GC is awesome. I read a chapter about the Harvey girls in some book or other several years ago; can't imagine such nowadays. I'm just glad that a train still exists within striking distance for me and that it has a dining car.
... and here I thought he was two, three, four sandwiches short of a picnic... but then I guess the (gov) $5m yearly subsidy for his rice farm, while complaining about the moochers, is an equal manifestation of said brilliance. :-(
I'd call them "penny wise, pound foolish." ... I think the Fred Harvey approach is the (only) correct one: make the dining experience exemplary, and one can then charge as necessary to cover the costs, and no one will complain... since you've experienced El Tovar: do you remember the bill, or do you remember the experience? ... I do remember that the bills were large (without any memory of being had); but hugely remember the experiences, and the wife without fail when we get back to GC will insist that we eat there yet again (bill be damned).... quality and presentation are what people remember (in both directions).Yes, I know you were. I didn't mean to sound grumpy!I was agreeing with youYeah, that's why I said "saves much money."
(I've learned that one best try to parse words and phrases here and avoid figures of speech!)
I just think these latest cuts are counter-productive.
The El Tovar at the GC is awesome. I read a chapter about the Harvey girls in some book or other several years ago; can't imagine such nowadays. I'm just glad that a train still exists within striking distance for me and that it has a dining car.
VentureForth
Engineer
It's OK that the dishes break - so they throw them away. Cut through your NY Strip and the plate beneath? Paper to catch it.
Frankly, I don't get that people in this thread are so OK with the FOOD quality! For $20-$30 per entree, I typically get a decent entree', and cold sides. They really don't have the microconvectionating down very well. As for the plastics, I get a weird chill down my arms when I cut through to the plate - it's sort of like running fingernails down a chalkboard (reference for you young 'uns).
And, since this topic has come up yet again, I will repeat yet again - let Waffle House work the diner!
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A hugely tangential reference to IHOP? I presume not a reference to anything WashDC, in that they collective seem incapable of running even a taco cart (thinking of Congress especially). ;-)
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