yarrow
Engineer
correct. it isn't mentioned in that document. my info is from a thread on TO and an amtrak obs. we shall see
Amenities Being Eliminated from Long Distance Routes
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Of course this Rushed, Secret , Lame Decision Is being made for Political Reasons, (whats next, No Hot Food in the Diners?) The Weak Spin that Blames this Decision on Route Managers in Chicago is just that, Weak BS!
Joe Boardman Promised that Budget Hawk John Mica in Hearings that the Loses on Food and Beverage Services would be Reduced on the LD Trains due to the "Gourmet Nature" of these Services! Sounds like a 60 Mass Decision to me, not the Suits in Chicago!
And since the CranberryJuice,Newspapers,Flowers,Chocolate, Amenity Bags and Wine and Cheese are what is causing Amtrak to Lose So Much Money on LD Trains, I'm Glad they are being Eliminated, I'm Sure the Savings will be Passed On to Us in the Form of Lower Sleeping Car Charges!! <_<
And I have a Bridge to Sell you in New York!
Joe Boardman Promised that Budget Hawk John Mica in Hearings that the Loses on Food and Beverage Services would be Reduced on the LD Trains due to the "Gourmet Nature" of these Services! Sounds like a 60 Mass Decision to me, not the Suits in Chicago!
And since the CranberryJuice,Newspapers,Flowers,Chocolate, Amenity Bags and Wine and Cheese are what is causing Amtrak to Lose So Much Money on LD Trains, I'm Glad they are being Eliminated, I'm Sure the Savings will be Passed On to Us in the Form of Lower Sleeping Car Charges!! <_<
And I have a Bridge to Sell you in New York!
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D.P. Roberts
Conductor
I think you were correct the first time. The document quoted above says that the effective date is when the commisary will stop stocking the items, but the actual end date depends on when the supplies run out. It may take months to run out of these items, depending on commisary stocking levels.
rrdude
Engineer
I've looked online, and can't find the exact stainless bud vase that Amtrak uses (used) now for flowers. Anyone have one? I'll buy it. (I have the old blue china ones, but those won't travel well)
Thanks. (I'm gonna have fun with this!)
Thanks. (I'm gonna have fun with this!)
rrdude
Engineer
Nope, it's real. If it was a prank, then they got EVERYbody, including their own FB page, Trains Newswire, etc., etc.
Money says it's 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999% true. (one can hope...........not)
Devil's Advocate
⠀⠀⠀
The AGR points increase was also on April 1st and that was no joke.
TVRM610
Conductor
Can anyone confirm its against policy to provide prepackaged snacks? I've seen many attendants put out candy, mints, etc. out by the coffee and juice area. And leaving a candy on the pillow is always a nice touch.
yarrow
Engineer
good idea. maybe you can get one from amtrak before they melt them down to make into executive washroom fixtures
Gourmet Nature?!?!?!? You have to be kidding me.Of course this Rushed, Secret , Lame Decision Is being made for Political Reasons, (whats next, No Hot Food in the Diners?) The Weak Spin that Blames this Decision on Route Managers in Chicago is just that, Weak BS!
Joe Boardman Promised that Budget Hawk John Mica in Hearings that the Loses on Food and Beverage Services would be Reduced on the LD Trains due to the "Gourmet Nature" of these Services! Sounds like a 60 Mass Decision to me, not the Suits in Chicago!
And since the CranberryJuice,Newspapers,Flowers,Chocolate, Amenity Bags and Wine and Cheese are what is causing Amtrak to Lose So Much Money on LD Trains, I'm Glad they are being Eliminated, I'm Sure the Savings will be Passed On to Us in the Form of Lower Sleeping Car Charges!! <_<
And I have a Bridge to Sell you in New York!
Is that really what 2 percenters like Boardman and Mica think the crap on Amtrak is? Really?
Or are they of the ilk that think that anyone who uses public transportation of any kind is poor, beneath them, uneducated, culturally illiterate, a straphanger?
In that context *Gourmet Nature* makes sense but not much at that. Crap is crap.
There is nothing about the Amtrak experience, *first class* aka overpriced sleeper, that is remotely Gourmet in Nature or, for that matter, first class.
The food is passable and that is it, imo.
Would I knowingly and willingly pay for it in a restaurant? NO.
Would I pay anywhere near what a sleeper costs for a cell in a Motel 6, which is what I consider equal to Amtrak sleeping accommodations? NO.
You can argue all you want about it but the sleeper accommodations are nothing more than a flat surface to sleep on, an uncomfortable seat to look out a window from, and mediocre food with equally mediocre service across the board.
When you're the only game in town, people have to play by your rules.
I love taking the train so I'll continue to do so but Amtrak is not going to increase LD ridership by depending on train fans who do nothing but make excuses for poor service.
N
Not_So_Auto_Mat
Guest
I'm taking a large amount of packaged snacks on my next trip and intend to sell them to other passengers from my roomette. Put a little menu and price poster on my door. Might as well make some money during the ride!
sunchaser
Conductor
I just looked on amtrak.com, under sleeper amenties and it still lists tolietries, newspaper, etc. The newest Coast Starlight Route Guide still lists the wine tasting, but not on the Empire Builder Guide. It's really too bad they are removing these 'extras', because we did enjoy the 'cheap champagne splits'. Most of the time did not see the newspapers, liked having the cranberry juice though. I really can't imagine these little extras that help define first class cost that much. hopefully they will change it back soon.
As of this post, it's still there on the Empire Builder Route - under menus - http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/44/589/EmpireBuilder_WineCheese_201103.pdf
jis
Permanent Way Inspector
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Quick! Complain to Amtrak so that they can proactively remove them in a timely manner.
Amenities will continue to be cut until Joe Boardman stands up and tells congress exactly what the sleeper passenger pays for a trip in comparison to air fare. That fare from NYC to CHI can be typically $800 one way and from CHI to SEA about $1400 one way. The argument is that those prices are expensive and I maintain that the taxpayer is not picking up the bill for the food that we eat. A subsidy is given but it also needs to be pointed out how much of an airline ticket is subsidized and how much you highway trip is too. That's why Amtrak is always on the short end of the stick. While he's at it why doesn't Boardman tell Mica that tax dollars pay his entire salary, expenses and lavish amenities. Boardman just has no guts to tell it like it is.
I have ridden Amtrak cross country many times and will miss the amenities. This is not the first cutback, remember the linen table cloths and real silvefware? It seems to me the answer is very simple. Charge two prices for sleepers. One that is just for the sleeper and one that includes the amenities: free meals, newspaper, bottle of champagne, wine and cheese, etc.
T
Trains in Spain
Guest
All of this back and forth over a few dollars worth of food and beverages misses the larger issue for Amtrak and its operating costs. They employ a lot of highly paid people along with high overhead for pensions and perqs. I see comments here from retirees, probably on a $1200/mo Social Security stipend, wondering how much to tip a SCA who probably earns $90K a year in salary alone. Really?
Until Amtrak addresses its bloated payroll they can cut all the pillow mints they want from the LD lines, it won't make a damn bit of difference.
Until Amtrak addresses its bloated payroll they can cut all the pillow mints they want from the LD lines, it won't make a damn bit of difference.
You're simply naive if you think that 1) anyone in congress cares about what the fare is on a long-distance train, or that 2) criticizing a congressman directly in a congressional hearing will accomplish anything other than ending Boardman's career before he could even walk back to Union Station from the Capitol.
Further, the logic you present wouldn't do anything to convince someone who is anti-Amtrak to change their views. The easiest response to anything you said is "so what?" For that matter, since you seem so certain, I'd like you to say how much an airline ticket is subsidized (and the honest answer is, outside of the EAS program, not very much). All you've done is reinforce the belief that sleepers are just subsidized cruises for the well off, by pointing out in the same paragraph that the tickets are both expensive and subsidized.
Hopefully you're talking about the Suits that Ride Desks and not the Railroaders that actually Do the Work!
(Bashing Workers is an Old Political Trick that the Greedy Rich have used Forever! 90K isn't Rich, its a Nice, Liveable Wage but it's Earned, not Welfare!)
Disclaimer: As a Retired Government Employee I resemble that Poor Pensioner!
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*citation needed
Last I checked, I'm paid about the same amount as sleeper car attendants, and I make nowhere near $90,000/year, not even half that. Unlike them, I get to go home after eight hours, and I get to sleep in my own bed every night. I also get to see my boyfriend, friends, and pets.
I think they are paid quite fairly for the job they do, considering the time away from home, and I'm happy to tip them if they provide exceptional service (especially considering they may have only had a few hours of sleep on a roomette mattress).
Furthermore, if someone wants to tip someone, that's their business. If you don't want to tip, fine. You don't have to. It's not like the people giving tips are taking the money out of your pocket, so why do you care?
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Devil's Advocate
⠀⠀⠀
So the FAA, ATC, TSA, CBP, along with hundreds of commercial airports and literally thousands of public airports receive no tax dollars beyond today's miniscule EAS? I think you're intentionally missing the bigger picture here. Air travel has the advantage of full coverage and high volume compared to Amtrak's low volume skeletal network, so in that sense its a more efficient use of tax dollars on a per traveler basis, but it's certainly not free and it goes far beyond EAS. Here in 2014 it's easy to forget that much of the infrastructure for the commercial airline industry came from tax expenditures (and tax breaks) and is still being supported by tax dollars to this very day.
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rrdude
Engineer
Robert, your points are right on, but I think an argument CAN be made for airfare subsidy, not talking Essential Air Service, but the non-direct cost such as FAA controllers, airports and maint, TSA, etc., etc. that airlines don't directly pay. Sure, they pay fees and gate fees, etc., but everything I've ever seen indicate that they only pay a small portion of those actual-true cost.
I could be wrong, or outdated but the "Have you ever seen a Greyhound Snow Plow going down the Interstate" still holds up, I think......
jis
Permanent Way Inspector
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A lot of those are covered by dedicated fees collected with the ticket or by other means. There is still some amount that is contributed from general funds. But my impression, which could be wrong, is that as a proportion of each ticket price it works out to be relatively small, though in absolute amounts it is possibly significant.
Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum
Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum
D.P. Roberts
Conductor
Based on some quick research, highway construction spending in the US is about $75 billion per year, all of which comes from taxes.
An interchange near be will be redone over the next year or so (I-270 & route 33 in Dublin, Ohio). Just one interchange in a midwestern town in an average state, and the work is estimated to cost almost $100 million dollars. No one is protesting, no one is complaining. No one would ever think that Congress should get involved.
And yet the budget for this one-year road project is almost 10% of what Amtrak gets. In terms of overall federal spending, Amtrak is chump change: $1.4 billion out of a $3.5 TRILLION federal budget? If I did the math right, that's 0.4% of the federal budget.
Looked at another way, let's assume that the average congressperson works 40 hours a week spending federal money (they surely "work" longer hours than that, but most of that time is spent getting themselves reelected). Let's give them two weeks of actual vacation (they take more). So, that's 2000 hours a year pondering what to do with our tax dollars, writing new bills and voting on them, sitting in endless committees, etc. If they allocated their hours based on the dollars they're spending, Amtrak should get about 48 minutes a year.
That's it: 48 minutes per congressperson. Anyone who spends more than 48 minutes a year haranguing about Amtrak (Mica, etc.) clearly has an axe to grind, and is doing so for political reasons rather than an actual concern about money being spent.
So how much does Amtrak lose in dining - about $70 million per year? That's worth about two and a half minutes. To even think about spending at this level is to micromanage at the smallest level.
There's also the massive indirect subsidy that a lot of airports have received through local support for construction, etc. There's a reason you almost never hear of a decent-sized commercial airport getting shut down.
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